How did we survive without goggles?

A snowHead

Now that I wear a helmet when I wear my skis ..I also wear gogles.

But there was a time when I just wore sunglasses when I skied.
Except if conditions were a bit nasty of course.

But now I dont feel kitted out without gogles.
I dont ski faster these days than I used to and I dont think the weather is muh worse.

Perhaps it jsut that sun glasses dont look cool with a helmet?

A snowHead

Oh dear -- You have caused me a problem ! :: a long time sunglasses wearer I bought my first Helmet in February (as yet unworn due to Covid Sad

))..

Now you tell me I need to buy Goggles !!!! ??? (off to practice wearing Helmet with Sunglasses to check the 'coolness' Wink

)

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

@albob, well its Christmas coming up next week someone will want to know
what you really really want.
So you've got to start dropping hints Very Happy

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What I want, what I really really want ? (Got a week to drop the hints..) snowHead

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

@DrLawn,

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I hate the tunnel vision of goggles.
I wear a visor helmet, but unless it's snowing hard, then I prefer to have the visor up

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Sorry I only wear goggles when conditions are bad ..much prefer sunglasses..Much better all round vision I have a pair of wrap around reactolite ones ...and I do wear a helmet
https://cratoni.com/en/produkt/futuro/

After all it is free

Bizarrely the cool wrap around goggles have a thicker back and have a more restrictive field of view that goggles with a thin plastic frame and the lens inside that.

With only one eye this is important to me and I was really surprised by this.

@DaveD, +1 Sunglasses most of the time. Goggles only if it's actually snowing and its starts to get inside the glasses.

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I get way too much blurring of vision due to airflow hitting my eyes wearing sunglasses, even cycling ones. With a large curved photochromic google my all round vision is about the same but much more comfortable.

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Dr lawn - it’s actually a deep psychological process - ‘schema’ or ‘schemata’. And the process of feeling weird is the experience of ‘accommodation’. I have exactly the same thing with goggles in skiing and fullface helmets in mountains biking. To be competent at something we have to move all the processing to our unconscious processes, so that things comes automatic. We can call it ‘getting used to something’ but it’s much more profound than that - getting things into our automatic processing means we just do it without conscious thought, and that’s essential to proficiency. In whacking at full tilt into a rock garden on my bike I don’t want my brain to be full of ‘this chin bar feels a bit weird, that changer needs to be adjusted, and my saddle isn’t fully down...’. I want to be able to FOCUS. It’s what the brain does brilliantly. You experience something consciously for a while (eg hmmm wearing goggles needs a different way of seeing things’) and quickly moves to it being automatic, not conscious. I accept that I feel better in goggles at any temp and time, and just vary the goggles to suit. The weird feeling comes from accommodation - the process where you have to modify that which has become automatic. It’s the same feeling you get when you realise you’ve left your seatbelt off. If you select your goggles well - big field of vision, good venting, right lens tint, spherical optics - then I can’t see a downside and protracted use will make you both highly proficient at seeing with them, and weird when you don’t have them on. I just feel REALLY WEIRD when I don’t wear a full face bike helmet, but just for a few minutes until I accommodate wearing an open face. Until I freak out that I’m going to fail on some roots and smash my teeth (again)...

snow reports

I didn't have goggles when I first went to the snow. They were outrageously expensive, you couldn't rent them, and you didn't need them on plastic.
As soon as it snowed I had to buy some anyway.

Perhaps it depends where you ride, and in what conditions?
In Finland or BC when it's cold, which is almost always, you'd have problems if you use sunglasses as they
don't protect your skin in the same way. Similarly sunglasses don't really work for people if it's snowing or deep, or
riding through tight trees.

Bob Smith claims to have invented goggle double glazing, and this 1967 clip of him shows what they're good for:

http://youtube.com/v/kgWsDuwUJws&feature=youtu.be

--
Originally I did find goggles restrictive of my field of vision, somehow. I once had some Smith (I think) goggles
called "Big Ass" because they were particularly large (but not for spectacle wearers) and gave a better field of view.
Modern goggles are nearly all like that. I adapt fast anyway; I look where I'm going, and turning
my head is best for knowing what's either side/ behind - same as cycling really.

Just a further thought...following from philwig...I debriefed someone who had experienced a very nasty accident, falling onto a cat track from 1 metre, lots of things broken including shattered pelvis and deflated lung. The final surgery had complications which have stayed. We worked out that the cause of it was his goggles. In flat light, with slightly steamed-up goggles, he just hadn’t seen the track. He previously was always a bit dismissive of being bothered by the details of kit, and this came up to bite him. It’s been lifechanging for him, regretably, and the incident reminded me also to be meticulous regarding goggle choice, both for me and my kids.

You know it makes sense.

@GlasgowCyclops, I'm in the same boat and definitely find goggles the better option.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

I used to wear sunglasses except when it was actually snowing then I'd wear goggles. Now if I wear sunglasses I wind the wind coming around the side dries my eyes out and I feel uncomfortable. Now I always wear goggles and never sunglasses. I know it definately looks uncool bareheaded with goggles but since I never look in mirrors I don't care.

As an aside, I was skiing with a friend who was wearing sunglasses and contact lenses. His eyes dried out on a fast piste and the contact lenses just fell out. I really impressed myself by finding them in the snow.

A snowHead

A snowHead

@philwig, That is just awesome. Truly awesome.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

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Thanks for plumping up the thread lads.

I would like to think there are days of skiing when sunglasses and a bobble hat will be just perfect,
and I dont like carrying much stuff when I ski.
But I'm nt sure if that will happen anymore.

There have been turning points when I changed my outlook on the kit I use.
I too used to just have goggles for miserable days, but I was caught out on a day which looked like a perfect bluebird but changed.
I was taking my wife over to Cervinia from Zermatt on her 50th Birthday.
The last gondola up was full of happy noisy people ... but then the wind got up near the top station and everybody felt silent as the cabin swayed.
When we got out at the far end of the tunnel we cuold hardly see 10 metres.
So we headed back down towards Zermatt again on teh glacier.
We were both only wearing our cool looking sunglasses and the ice bullets rolling up the hill towards us hurt a lot.
It was really nasty, trying to move down the slope into the wind blowing us back.

Since then goggles are alway in the pocket at least if not on.
@snowglider, I've always gone for a pink shade as I find it gives me more deffinition.
I bought a pair of Goggles from Decathlon last time for bad weather, I think they are yellow though.
Unfortunately I've not had a chance to wear them yet, but for the money (about £45 ) they seem very good quality and at that price I won't worry if I lose them.

What I really really want is a snazzy HMR helmet with visor like this.

Just about to eat my first mince pie of the season. Laughing

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Back in the 80's Vuarnets and Raybans were de rigour, all good till a faceplant when 5-10 minutes was needed to clear the snow out the inside........

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ps: had to change the title for you, gogles???????

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

@DrLawn, The Stig on skis.
Get them!!

After all it is free

@snowglider, so we spent an inordinate amount of time comparing the Aphex magnetic goggs with “Revo” lenses (I presume, that Revo) withe the Smiths.

The frames we are both getting come with Sun Green (which are, technically, extremely dark - only 9% transmission) and one of the Storm yellows, which is pretty light, defo yellow not gold.

We were astonished at how good the yellow looked like it would be. It was a mixed sky day, around 16h00 in central Chamonix, so we could only look at the snow on the peaks but they looked very promising.

I don’t have any rose Prizms but I have the Deep Water blue lenses in my sunnies and they are very comfortable on my eyes.

Helmet + goggs look a bit tragic.

Sunnys for the win.

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Snowglider - note that you are interested in very low light performance...and last season we had a lot of comparisons around the Oakley low light lenses, in some real clag and zero viz days. Prizm Rose really is a remarkable lens, as you noted, and stand up really well even in phenomenally low and flat light. But we also use the Hi Pink Prizm and the old Hi-Yellow. The Pink really is not a vast improvement on the Rose - it IS better re increasing definition and increases distance but I’d say that while the ROSE is 50% better than many other Cat2 lens, the PINK only gives you an additional 10-15% - just rough and subjective % of course. The Hi YELLOW was judged to be different, but not superior to the PINK, just different. All the goggles were the same frame - Canopy - to do a fair test. I think I prefer having the ROSE on for most of the time and the PINK in my sack for zero viz. But I know that others would opt for the YELLOW. I think this is a personal physiology and perception thing, the YELLOW and the PINK are obviously a fraction better than the ROSE, but as you say, the ROSE is an extraordinarily versatile lens. Apologies for not being able to compare the Chromapop, it’s not one which we have compared. The have rated Oakley and lens, and the old but not the new Smith ones. There were a few reviews last year of new Smith versus Prizm and the Smith came out well for the majority of the people commenting, IIRC.

snow reports

@KenX, Thanks for editing it for me Very Happy

.... we use the gggggg words so often
and I'm sure I had a pair of Vuarnets, if thats how it's spelt.
And I've still got them even though they are very scratchy now.

@AL9000, Thank you for your permission, I may well get one in some bright graphics.

Sunglasses or goggles alike; you need to try them on for fit. If you claim goggles give tunnel vision, it's just you haven't found a pair that fit you correctly...

Goggles. Always goggles (or googles, as my laptop tried to autofinish). Helmet or no helmet.

IMHO.

You know it makes sense.

@Sharkymark, no, definitely Vuarnets if no helmet.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

@under a new name, thanks for the feedback. I looked into it a bit, the low light storm lens comes in either red tint (or pink/rose, whatever Smith call it - can't remember now) or yellow. Most people seem to find the yelllow tint better, so your impressions are spot on. Thanks.

@valais2, Thanks very much for your detailed reply. Although not a direct comparison that I was hoping someone might have done, it's still very valuable.
I've got astigmatsm in one eye, which I'm told affects my vision in low light conditions. So although 10% - 15% extra VLT may not be much to some, to me it would make a difference.
Managed to find some comparisons online, and indeed most people seem to prefer the Chromapop lense over the Prizm Hi Pink. Which was a bit surprising to me, as couple of years ago, everybody was raving about the Prizm Rose & the Hi Pink.

I'll look a bit more into it, but at the moment it seems as if I'm going to go with the Chromapop Storm.

Again, thank you both very much for your help, it's really appreciated.

A snowHead

I have the smiths red sensor mirror for low light and find them very good. The other thing I would recommend is that you get out in poor light conditions at every opportunity. In my experience the slopes are often empty and the lack of other skiers more than makes up for the poor light.
Poor light certainly helps ensure your balance is good as of you will soon tell off you are off balance when you hit an unseen snow drift

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

@pieman666, it's encouraging to hear of someone's yet another positive experience with the Smiths. Thanks for chiming in.

Re: getting out and skiing in bad viz: it's a sound advice. I don't let bad conditions stop me from skiing anyway, every day on the slopes is precious. Hence my search for a better flat light lens.
But as it's looking at the moment, it'll be challenging enough to get any time on the slopes this season, never mind the weather conditions! Sad

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snow glider - my 10%-15% extra definition was just subjective thing. VLT is objective and different...and interesting I think.

The VLT pf the PRIZM range is just weird, and shows how carefully Oakley has worked on the interaction of lens filters with human perception. When the PRIZM series first came out, I thought that there had been a series of typos or a measurement issue with the PRIZMS. Take a look at this.

PRIZM Rose 26%
Hi Pink 46% VLT
Hi Yellow 80%

WHAAAAT???

Really, the performance differences in low light of the hi pink and the hi yellow really aren't that huge. But 34% difference in VLT? Bizarre. And the ROSE works better than many other manufacturers' cat1 lens, but with only 26% VLT. Bonkers. And bearing in mind I have frequent experience of frying my face while climbing and skiing in zero viz - the radiation just coming through the clag, it's nice to have goggles which cut down light transmission - I know that they all claim 100% UV protection, but with PRIZM lens in low light and out for hours I don't get bloodshot eyes, whereas I do with other lens of the same subjective performance. The Oakley research shows how they use the filters to boost light signal only in those wavelengths which really excite depth perception and contrast, and block others. and that's how they can up clarity yet reduce VLT significantly. Good, solid research. I still wear Bolle and Bloc, but PRIZMS remain my go-to lens series. Until then I used Scott, Belle, Smith and Oakleys, with Bolle as my preferred lens, so I am not an irrational Oakley adherent.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

@snowglider, my bro in law is a partner in the shop we are buying from, which is a well regarded technical outlet. And they are very well briefed by the reps. According to him, ignore VLT as it’s no substitute to trying them on ...

Oh, and he only wears Oakley as they suits his eyes.

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The sunnies that I use, Bolle safety specs from screwfix, have zero peripheral vision restriction, unlike any pair of goggle that I have tried on, being safety specs, they are wrap around so they help (not stop) blurred vision due to wind. I can't turn my neck far enough to ski switch with goggles on but sunnies just give me enough vision to do so.
Goggles only go on when it gets too cold for sunnies, I really can't stand them on my face if I am feeling warm, each to their own. for the same reason, I have never been able to tolerate a helmet or tight fitting hat when skiing so the helmet/sunnies thing has never been an issue Very Happy

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

After all it is free

@valais2, I have worn Oakley clear lenses in bright sunlight and not noticed it, the UV protection is from the plastic of the lens not the colouring.

Yep, understand UV protection. But re eyes indeed I think it's a personal thing. I previously have spent a lot of time in high UV at altitude and originally thought it might be drying of the eyes due to low humidity, but then noted I get it also when in clag and high humidity - it seems to relate just to the high levels of solar radiation even in clag. Since VLT of PRIZMs (26%) is so low compared with other low light lens (80-90%) I think that PRIZMs help simply by hugely lessening the amount of solar radiation getting to my eyes.

My partner had to have plastic lens in both eyes in her late forties due to very early-onset cataracts - she spent a lot of time up mountains and in sub-Saharan Africa, quite a lot of discussion with medics about whether high solar radiation exposure was the cause.

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How did we survive without goggles?

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