Kids made us proud trying out for freeride club today. It seems they can get out of the backseat when there’s a prize! I’ve been trying to get them to ski on one ski on flatter pistes. Any other good drills to get them more centred on the skis and keep those arms forward?
@BobinCH, What kind of lessons have they had, any race training ?
My boy did a season of race training 2 seasons ago but the races were a total ball ache so we ditched it. And he just loves free riding so we’re focusing on that
@DB, Drills for skiing need to be cordless, I'm happy with my 420W DeWalt.
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
stewart woodward wrote:
@BobinCH,
Why do you need to keep your arms forward?
To get his weight forward and into a more centered stance. He doesn’t usually ski like he did in that video - ie skis much faster, less control, in back seat.
After all it is free
After all it is free
DB wrote:
I'd go big on this as it's not easy to keep the kids attention and interest, something like this should provide hours of fun.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
BobinCH wrote:
stewart woodward wrote:
@BobinCH,
Why do you need to keep your arms forward?
To get his weight forward and into a more centered stance. He doesn’t usually ski like he did in that video - ie skis much faster, less control, in back seat.
Pushing your arms forward will have the opposite effect. Try pushing your arms forward what happens. Your bum goes back.
In the video their weight is going backwards as they do not have control if their skis from the fall line into the bottom of the turn. Try getting them to learn how to skid properly which will control their ski and automatically they will be more centered rather than the skis running away with them.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Just tell him to blame his technical faults on his equipment or an old war injury, afterall his Dad gets away with it.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
DB wrote:
I'd go big on this as it's not easy to keep the kids attention and interest, something like this should provide hours of fun.
Be very careful with those big drills because if you drill reinforced concrete you can break your wrists if you hit one of the reinforcing bars and the drill whips around. I'd imagine it would be worse for kids.
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Sat 19-12-20 19:47; edited 1 time in total
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@BobinCH, on piste, get him to make nice rounded turns while he is lifting the tail of his inside ski. Lift the tail of the inside ski as soon as the turn starts so he is doing pretty much all of the turn balanced in his outside ski. Keeping the tip of his inside ski on the snow will help keep his hips forward, and the extra challenge of his balance might bring his hands up.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Little grom needs lessons, bro.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
stewart woodward wrote:
Try getting them to learn how to skid properly which will control their ski and automatically they will be more centered rather than the skis running away with them.
I'm a fan of this approach. Once our kids could ski well enough it was a job to get them to unlearn carving every turns and skid turns in order to be able to deal with steeps and bumps better.
Sessions of boring side slipping and edge control were useful to reinforce where the centre of balance is and what effect changes in fore/aft movement have. Then progressing that into small bumps at slow speeds where they could skid into the bump and use it to set up for the next turn. Then gradually speed things up and increase the turn speed which is difficult when carving. It's a bit wax-on, wax-off but it brings some of the benefits of old school technique which is really useful in understanding the fundamentals of skiing.
Bumps and gates are tricky with dodgy weight distribution and I know I bore people to death talking about 'proper piste skis' but they do really help.
If the kids are enjoying skiing and get down stuff at your kind of speed..... And don't complain about the fact you need yet another beer then that's pretty good.
With the various technique and ankle flex threads I'm been thinking about this.
Last week I had to go into work to do a computer update so was on the tube.
For some reason I decided to balance on one leg at a time as the tube set off.
It dawned on me that the movements are similar to skiing.
At first I was just throw back (rug pulled out from under me affect) and had to save myself with the other foot.
Later through anticipating the acceleration I was able to stay out of the back seat but I over compensated and fell forward.
It was surprising how little ankle flex I needed but how much my core was needed.
Once I got it just right (there were only a few stops).
Here I went with the acceleration by slightly pressing my hips forward and flexing the ankle slightly then timed the release of pressure to match the decrease in acceleration.
If anything it was as if I was just ahead of the forces generated by the tube's acceleration as if set off. I think this is what Deb Armstrong means by stroking the ski.
Remember Ott Gangl on Epicski talking about this many years ago, he described it as standing on a flatbed truck as it drove away. (Anyone heard from Ott lately?)
Many people just stand static on their skis. They get taken for the ride and get slapped about by these forces. This is why I believe many are too far back at the start or too far forward at the end of the turn.
Then my mind started thinking about how this could be simulated = kid in ski boots wearing helmet for protection with a crash landing zone (e.g. mattress on floor behind him). Standing on rug which is on a low friction surface (e.g. tiles). Dad counts down from 3 then pulls rug. Kid tries to stay centered. Or is this too crazy?
With the various technique and ankle flex threads I'm been thinking about this.
Last week I had to go into work to do a computer update so was on the tube.
For some reason I decided to balance on one leg at a time as the tube set off.
It dawned on me that the movements are similar to skiing.
At first I was just throw back (rug pulled out from under me affect) and had to save myself with the other foot.
Later through anticipating the acceleration I was able to stay out of the back seat but I over compensated and fell forward.
It was surprising how little ankle flex I needed but how much my core was needed.
Once I got it just right (there were only a few stops).
Here I went with the acceleration by slightly pressing my hips forward and flexing the ankle slightly then timed the release of pressure to match the decrease in acceleration.
If anything it was as if I was just ahead of the forces generated by the tube's acceleration as if set off. I think this is what Deb Armstrong means by stroking the ski.
Remember Ott Gangl on Epicski talking about this many years ago, he described it as standing on a flatbed truck as it drove away. (Anyone heard from Ott lately?)
Many people just stand static on their skis. They get taken for the ride and get slapped about by these forces. This is why I believe many are too far back at the start or too far forward at the end of the turn.
Then my mind started thinking about how this could be simulated = kid in ski boots wearing helmet for protection with a crash landing zone (e.g. mattress on floor behind him). Standing on rug which is on a low friction surface (e.g. tiles). Dad counts down from 3 then pulls rug. Kid tries to stay centered. Or is this too crazy?
I’m sure ankle flex is part of it. They ski quite upright. When I tell my boy to flex forward more he either sticks his bum out or skis like the leaning tower of pizza. The shifting hips forward seems like way to go. He is fine in most terrain so skis lazy but in deeper snow or wind crust he struggles to link the turns as his tails are anchoring him. That’s what I mean by getting into a more balanced position. And more athletic, to get him out of the snow in the turn
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
What is it with boots these days? There seem to be a lot of people skiing with 0 ankle flex, it looks very odd. It is it the skier?
To try and convey the correct skiing position, imagine trying to jump onto your coffee table from a static position. When you crouch down before making your spouse-infuriating leap is a good position!
After all it is free
After all it is free
@BobinCH, does your youngest ski differently to some other kids who are the same size/strength as him in this kind of terrain? When kids are little they don’t need to make such effective movements to get the level of control from using their skis well as they don’t have a lot of weight, therefore don’t need to manage to such high forces when the turn. As they grow in size it becomes more important to develop effective movement patterns to use their skis well, in order to cope with the forces they are generating from turn to turn. What I saw in your clip was a big difference in movements between those two kids - the bigger one was extending his legs to start the turn, bringing his hips forward, balancing better on his skis and getting more control of his turn shape as he was using the front of his skis. The smaller kid was pretty static, which often means hips stay behind the feet too much, so the front of the skis don’t engage and you don’t have as much control of your turn shape. Having your hips behind your feet also makes it more difficult to skid, twist, scrape your skis as your centre of mass is not well aligned above your pivot point.
So what can be done? First, accept that as he grows and gets stronger he will develop better physical tools to ski, especially in more challenging terrain. In the meantime, help him develop good movement patterns, so challenge him to make a little jump to finish one turn and start the next (“can you change your edges in the air?”); get him to follow you and make sure you set a very rounded line rather than a bit of a zig-zag path on terrain like that; do the one footed drill I mentioned earlier, making sure he keeps the tip of his inside ski on the snow as this will stop him dropping hips back (if he does this drill well, take his poles off him).
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stewart woodward wrote:
@DB,
Core strength is the secret in many sports
Is that a question?
stewart woodward wrote:
Not sure the last drill will work
What's with the rolling eyes at the end of every post? The diminishing snide comments with rolling eyes seems to be the only thing that you have contributed to this thread.
Care to post something useful or STFU.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Rob beat me to it but 'bunny hops" at the completion of the turn is a good one, then once they are happy with that, bunny hops all around the whole turn, then carving leapers where they jump and shoot the skis out wide to edge change in the air.
I would add Jump to switch on the flat, then off tiny ridges on the edge of the piste as a fun way to get them centered and comfortable riding switch. 360's on the flat are great for balance and kids love em. Once they can do one without dying (key is to have em look up and over the shoulder) Get em doing a couple linked in one direction, then progress do one in one direction and switch to opposite rotation. Progress to 360 no poles and then on one leg... tough drill but kids pick it up quickly...
ps digging the SG poles on the mini
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@BobinCH, good advice from @skimottaret, who has loads of experience of coaching kids of this age, some of whom have gone on to GB squad selections.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
DB wrote:
Care to post something useful or STFU.
You may not agree with my comments but no need to be nasty.
Your comment appears to be following a trend on snowheads lately where if people do not agree with comments they just get offensive. Chill.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
stewart woodward wrote:
DB wrote:
Care to post something useful or STFU.
You may not agree with my comments but no need to be nasty.
Your comment appears to be following a trend on snowheads lately where if people do not agree with comments they just get offensive. Chill.
Don't start playing the victim now, you replied to me with your disbelief and rolling eyes not the other way round. You didn't agree with my comments and reacted (with patronising rolling eyes etc) not the other way round.
I didn't think your "skiding mantra" would work but just left if. I'd like to see a video of you skiding around on frozen crust. It's the one condition that wipes out my Austrian skiing friends as they learnt to ski over 40 years ago as kids and skid from turn to turn.
Last edited by So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much on Sun 20-12-20 11:44; edited 1 time in total
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
BobinCH wrote:
I’m sure ankle flex is part of it. They ski quite upright. When I tell my boy to flex forward more he either sticks his bum out or skis like the leaning tower of pizza. The shifting hips forward seems like way to go. He is fine in most terrain so skis lazy but in deeper snow or wind crust he struggles to link the turns as his tails are anchoring him. That’s what I mean by getting into a more balanced position. And more athletic, to get him out of the snow in the turn
Sounds like he's going offroad with very little suspension. When snow is cräppy (e.g. breakable crust) getting the skis out of the snow at the end of the turn helps to stop them hooking up.
One thing I found worked with my kids is to focus on sound. On relatively easy terrain lead them in nice round turns, with the goal being to increase the volume of the sound their skis are making on the snow. Shoooooooosh. Gettting them to make the sound is fun and helps. It is SMOOTH increase from quiet to loud but very important to link turns and avoid over-braking at the end. I have found it takes their mind of other things, and is very hard to do unless you are centred on the ski throughout the turn. Then step it up to more challenging terrain.
Making bunny hops is also good, the goal being that you should be able to bunny hop at any point of the turn. On a long run you can practice bunny hopping at various points of the turn, ending with bunny hopping all the way through the turn. Not only does it encourage good balance, it is fun and as it automatically teaches the ability to make small unweighting movements at will (and land with pressure on the tips of the skis) has great benefits to bumps/variables skiing.
If all else fails (and depending on age!), and of course if they are boys, get them into the habit of skiing with their dingaling. Teach them the buddy holly song to make it fun. In essence aways point your thing where you want to go!
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Thanks all. The little one is my daughter, 8 and the boy is 10. They can ski anything especially the boy, but that allows them to be lazy. Lots of ideas here to work on skills and keep it fun. Much appreciated
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@BobinCH,
Race training helps even if not racing. Our older one did this for several years with the local club, he too hated races, and to be honest so did I as everyone (especially parents!) seemed to take it far too seriously,. The race coaches were great and he liked running gates, the club were fine with him just doing that - though when he decided pulling a 360 half way down the course, out of the cross ruts, the coach was less than impressed
He skis competitive freeride now, but you can tell a mile off that he also did race training. Freeride competitions still involve some serious athletes and they train just as hard, but seems a lot more relaxed
For our younger aspiring Freerider, the biggest thing for her is to tell her to go have fun - she is technically strong and well balanced, so by doing that she stops over-thinking it, relaxes so is more dynamic, and rips down the hill! Skiing behind a good skier helps.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@BobinCH, kids heads are massively heavy compared to adults, so almost impossible for them to get out of the back seat when young. Don't stress about it is the best advice I got!
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
I like the one where you hold both poles together, horizontally, with both hands, well out in front of you. Then you ski, keeping the poles square with the fall line at all times. Your torso is attached, so you stay square as well, and this is good.
As a side benefit, I think it also helps one notice how the lower half may be doing a lot of stuff, but the upper half can (and should) stay smooth.
I try to pick my battles on this stuff. My parents never saw me ski and it went fine. If your kids are having fun, and so it appears, you are on the right track.
Thanks all. The little one is my daughter, 8 and the boy is 10. They can ski anything especially the boy, but that allows them to be lazy. Lots of ideas here to work on skills and keep it fun. Much appreciated
If I ski in the backseat my thighs burnout eventually. Maybe it's easier for them to do that because the boots are too stiff and/or upright for them. Might be worth them building up leg strength by flexing the boots in a static position.
In crappy offpiste conditions pulling the toes up at the start of the turn helps me to close the ankles and stay forward.
This is also a useful technique for really crappy steeper offpiste snow. (breakble crust, sticky spring snow, bumpy crud)
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@BobinCH, I liked watching the kids ski down the slope. They looked like they were enjoying themselves and that is the important thing. The little one seamed quite content working things out for herself, working out where to turn, what speed she wanted to go and how to stay balanced. Personally, I would just let her get on with it. Or leave it to the professional coaches in the club.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Following rob@rar's advice, I also like how Deb Armstrong teaches the youngsters [url=]http://youtube.com/v/c2ScKSMGvtc[/url] with bunny hops across the fall line (although a few adults might benefit from those drills too). On piste balance drills also help (for example - when leaning back, it is very difficult to lift the back of your uphill ski off the snow) which race training will emphasise (and as they get older, they are of course competing with their peers rather than having to listen to their parents...). To be honest, they ski better than many adults out there, so maybe just keep taking them out and emphasise the fun elements for now!
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Agree with others in keeping it fun (esp. for kids) being the most important thing. Try to make a game out of the drills.
Some more tips here - e.g. turning on high points.
Superb. Love the videos! How have we managed without the “Swiss virage”
We have plenty of fun but the kids are smart and we have 10 days of skiing ahead, in low tide conditions, so a few drills to practice should add to the variety and enjoyment
Hopefully we get some more of this for Xmas day...
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
then that's pretty good.
