 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi
I am due to be in Val D'Isere from 26 Feb to 6th March.
Having looked through some of the posts relating to Val on snowheads, it seems that:
a) The resort runs are pretty crappy.
b) Piste grading tends to be a bit optimistic.
I am not a fantastic skier by any stretch of the imagination, but can get down most pisted runs I have skiied without falling over too much. 
A lot of the advice I have seen seems to suggest getting the lift down rather than skiing down. Is this because the resorts runs are particularly steep or just busy and icy?
Also - I have seen a lot of references to The Face as being difficult. Is this because of the gradient or is it because of ice or moguls. I would quite like to have a go at it, but would like to know exactly what I am getting myself into.
Grateful for any comments on this and advice on Val generally!
Cheers
Gerard
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I've never seen the face with moguls on but it can be quite icy, it's groomed every night. I think it's one of the best on piste runs in the espace killy and you should definitely have a go as it's a far better way to finish the day than taking the lift down. The blue however will be covered large moguls and people lying all over it at four o'clock and is generally a nightmare. Still better than taking the lift down though
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Santons and M (from Bellevard and Solaise respectively) can be tricky at the end of the day. Face is a superb run. It can also cut up according to conditions, but grab it in the morning and it should be fine. My nervous intermediate friend made it down Face at lunchtime on the 4th day and regretted not doing it earler in the week. Yes, its steep in parts, but it's generally even pitch, wide enough to be forgiving, and has a few ridges that form natural rest points. Other than that the pistes are graded one lower compared to most resorts, but it's not as bad as it sounds because the runs are twice as wide as most other resorts.
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Hi Gerard,
From a first time Facer this season, I'd say on a good day with the sun shining and not very chopped up it could be a lovely relaxing run for an intermediate skiier. However, the reason it is a difficult run is that it gets icy - the first time we did it there hadn't been a lot of snow for a while and it really was a case of digging your edges in to control speed on the way down. Because it is out of the sun for most of the day it can get very icy, and has a reputation for it.
A few days later it had bucketed down with snow, and was a completely different run. It wasn't that chopped up, but the sheer volume of unpisted snow made it a challenging run for very different reasons to the icy day. Less of an issue controlling speed, more of an issue keeping burning legs going through the conditions - that said every run in the resort was the same.
Give us an idea of the kind of runs (what colour, and in what resort) you can ski comfortably, we should be able to tell you if you are going to be able to get down it safely and enjoy yourself.
In my opinion there's a lot of people who talk about the Face, and on Tignes side Trolles, who make it out to be the hardest run on earth. At the end of the day, with tired legs, you have to ski that run to get home in fading light. Of course, in those conditions it will be a challenge for most skiiers, so try to get on it earlier in the day - in my opinion just before lunch is probably a good time to give it a go, it's had a few hours of slightly warmer temperatures, and hopefully a bit of sun, so will soften up a bit, but shouldn't get too chopped up. By 4pm it is a different prospect. Once you've done it once, getting down at the end of the day is less of a challenge.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Will definitely have a go in that case - I much prefer wider runs than narrow ones.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
much prefer wider runs than narrow ones
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than you'll f'kin love ValD
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Sorry Monium, my last post crossed with yours.
I have skiied some blacks in Chamonix, Zermatt, Les Arcs and Whistler in a reasonable fashion. Reds are generally not a problem.
Struggled a little on the Swiss Wall in Avoriaz last year in icy, mogully conditions though... 
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Be wary of Verte to La Daille. Graded green but can be boiler-plate ice with a few puffs of artificial snow here and there. Unless things have changed a lot - been few years since I was there.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
A few days later it had bucketed down with snow, and was a completely different run. It wasn't that chopped up, but the sheer volume of unpisted snow made it a challenging run for very different reasons to the icy day. Less of an issue controlling speed, more of an issue keeping burning legs going through the conditions - that said every run in the resort was the same.
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sounds like heaven
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| achilles wrote: |
| Be wary of Verte to La Daille. Graded green but can be boiler-plate ice with a few puffs of artificial snow here and there. Unless things have changed a lot - been few years since I was there. |
Verte was icy for the stretch below Follie Douce but was superb above there. The left hand side is better, as it gets the sun. The right stays shaded from the trees. If M is icy only the lower, narrow section, there is no shame in beginners getting the cable car back down. As for Face, the advice about hitting it just before lunch is spot on. But don't stay in VD, make sure you get over to Le Lac too and explore the whole of the piste map (perhaps with the exception of Sache unless there has been lots of fresh snow). Cycleman and the mighty Palafour are amongst the best white highways I know and just like the Solaise and Fornet valleys, you can happily cruise these all day. Double M, down from the Grande Motte glacier, is a legendary red and will make the strongest of legs burn.
I have now spent six weeks in EK in the last two years and can't wait until the end of March when I am back there again. I've also spent many weeks in Cham, Corchevel, La Plagne and Andora. Espace Killy doesn't just have a bit of everything, it has a lot of everything. You will love it.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Sounds great! Seriously looking forward to it now! 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Gerard McNeely, can't imagine you won't enjoy it - was my favourite stomping ground - though recently other areas have called. Picking up on bar shaker's comment, don't forget Fornet. A lot do, which can leave it in wonderful condition when other areas have been hammered.
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| Quote: |
Double M, down from the Grande Motte glacier, is a legendary red and will make the strongest of legs burn.
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I was there in April last year and this was my absolute FAVOURITE run! I am currently in the process of booking New Year 2011 for a return visit. Cant imagine going anywhere else for early or late season skiing... 
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You know it makes sense.
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You will absolutely LOVE it I was there last year in March.
Face's reputation, IMHO, is because it is steep in places, and is pretty sustained - the last section is pretty long and steep all the way, so I guess its that end of day leg burn that some people find tough. Its super wide though, all the way. Do it at the start of the day in good condition to get a feel for it.
Generally speaking I found all the blacks in Val pretty fair for the grade - face is easy in comparison to some. If you feel up to it, the dotted blacks are seriously good fun. My experience of the week was, Val dotted black = steep mogul field. So if you love sustained bumps, then you'll love it, and its great for technique - I had just done a mogul course at 'Cas before we went, and by the end of the week in Val was loving the bumps.
The hardest run for me, was Foret. This one goes through the trees, is extremely (for me), narrow in places, and gets seriously mogully. To be fair the run was closed, but it was nails, and snowing heavy, somehow my snowboarder mate did better than me (on moguls?!!).
If you like steep, but smooth and wide, trolles over in Tignes is great fun, really cool steep bit and a def need to carry your speed up the flat bit into resort.
Def get up the Grande Motte (  ) and do descente, its beautiful up there, and late season hopefully lovely and sunny.
As others have said, make sure you explore the mountain, and get over to Tignes, its a massive area.
Hope you have a great time!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Depends on the weather between now and when you arrive. I haven't been down Face for a few weeks - last time I did it was hard-pack and it won't have improved much since then as (up until yesterday) we haven't had any snow for 3 weeks, just wall-to-wall sunshine. The word in the pub on Monday was - don't bother unless you enjoy sliding sideways. As mentioned above, the easier runs down to Val get pretty busy at the end of the day, but are good before lunch.
If we get the snow we've been praying for then Face in the morning can be a great run, but best avoided when there's a snow drought (last 3 weeks) or it's Half Term (next week).
Look out for the Grand Pre lift in the Bellevarde area. The snow there has been good all season - it's a great playground.
BTW - Face isn't super-wide all the way, but the short narrow section isn't as steep as other bits.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Monium wrote: |
In my opinion there's a lot of people who talk about the Face, and on Tignes side Trolles, who make it out to be the hardest run on earth. |
seriously? who? Trolles in particular is incredibly easy - I've always suspected they removed a hard section at some point (a higher bit I can't work out how to get to has been mentioned?) and forgot to regrade it and face is fine unless you are tired or it is icy, I'm a total wuss and more than happy to do both....
Anyway back to the OP, I'd agree with others, don't worry at all. In general the aadvice you've been seeing is aimed at the wary early intermediate imo - once you are happy on reds in general espace killy is pretty easy terrain, lots of cruising, it's only the greens which are undergraded and of course santons gets busier than hell, but it's not hard per se, just a pita to dodge/wait a lot and the evil flat afterwards! As above I'm a nervous skier and about your level I'd guess and I've never had any problems - enjoy!
aj xx
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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La Sache was the toughest run I did whilst there in 09. Face was closed due to the World Championships being on (good view of the end of the men's DH from the restaurant  ) and access to the glacier was closed when we tried it due to high winds.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Ted Ligety didn't seem to have too much trouble with Face when I was there in December 
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If you get the first lift, then when its courderoy with nobody on it (everyone else is heading up to go to tignes) then you get a wonderful view down - migh be a bithard, but traverse a fe wturns then give it a run for 3 or 4 long turns.
Very nice
There's no easy way down anywhere later afternoon; my favourite spot is at the bottom of la daille watching everyone trying to get down narrrow pistes with no snow left on them when they shut the two pistes on the right (looking up hill) which they always seem to do. Lots of bum sliding going on
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Gerard McNeely, From the centre ov Val D there are two main mountain areas - Solaise and Bellevard. The runs down from Solaise can be a bit busy but I wouldn't generally recommend taking the lift down. I think there is a case for the lift down from Bellevard in some conditions for some skiers. There are 4 main piste options: Epaule de Charvet, a black which is fun in good snow but often rocky and often closed; Santons, a blue which is a gully part of the way and often resembles a ten-pin bowling lane with the pins being fallen skiers. Great for practicing slalom round bodies. It ends with a long schush and very long flat bit; Face, which you've already been told about. Great fun in good snow but not much fun in icy conditions or when it's not snowed for a while; and finally the group of pistes going down to La Daille - these can be bedlam towards the end of the day and while doable they can be very busy with quite a few narrow stretches. So there is a case for spending more time in good snow on great pistes up top and then nipping in the Olympique gondola to come down.
As far as the rest of it goes, no-one has yet mentioned Leisse - a wonderful black just off the side of the grand motte. If you get frersh snow it can be great. Also fun to do the end-to-end tour from Fornet to Brevieres via the Motte. Quite a challenge to do that in time for a late lunch.
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| a.j. wrote: |
| Monium wrote: |
In my opinion there's a lot of people who talk about the Face, and on Tignes side Trolles, who make it out to be the hardest run on earth. |
seriously? who? Trolles in particular is incredibly easy - I've always suspected they removed a hard section at some point (a higher bit I can't work out how to get to has been mentioned?) and forgot to regrade it and face is fine unless you are tired or it is icy, I'm a total wuss and more than happy to do both....
aj xx |
Trolles is fine for most of the run but there is a narrow and fairly steep section two thirds of the way down which sorts the men from the boys - lots of nervous snowplouging going on there which makes it difficult to get through. for current conditions and tips you can also take a look at the Snow reports on the Valdinet website
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| leedssteve wrote: |
The hardest run for me, was Foret. This one goes through the trees, is extremely (for me), narrow in places, and gets seriously mogully. To be fair the run was closed, but it was nails, and snowing heavy, somehow my snowboarder mate did better than me (on moguls?!!).
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I'd echo that. Non-stop car sized moguls. I did it flat-out without a break once, certainly gets the heart going!! Pretty much passed out by the restaurant at the bottom. Everyone was giving me odd looks and wandering why I was panting like a dog.
As for Face, as with any other run, it depends on the quality of the snow. I've been down at 9:30 with someone on their 6th day on snow (and dressed as spiderman  , but thats another story!) and they were fine. couple of minor slips, but he got to the bottom declaring it was easy and the rest of us were rubbish for ever claiming it was hard. But he wouldn't have got safely down at 5:00 the previous day when it was all moguls, followed by ice, followed by moguls...
The normal runs into the resort aren't the greatest and I would only ski them as connecting runs. Main problem is the number of other skiers and the relative lack of width through the trees. Just take your time and keep your eyes open for those around you.
Gerard McNeely, if you can ski blacks in other resports, you can ski them in the EK. Plus there are plenty of reds and blues to keep you entertained. You'll love it.
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Santons is best done on a Saturday morning, French transfer day. We have had it to ourselves and it's then the most awesome natural halfpipe.
Leisse is great and the off piste to the far side (from the train station) is safe and can be sparsely tracked after a dump.
For €15 you can buy a 'first tracks' ticket to do Double M at 8.00am. It's quite something to do but, really, Double M never gets that messed up.
Do the four corners, if you get a chance. It's a great day out.
Also get in a chilli bowl or burger at the Loop (on the right at the bottom of Trolles) or a lasagne at L'Arbina (centre of Tignes), all unbelievable value and great for watching the world ski/board/walk by.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I take it back, Face with moguls would be......interesting.....I've only come across it pisted so far (4 trips) will keep a wary eye out for that one!
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I'm just back from a week in Tignes. Face was icy in the afternoon but OK in the mornings. The Fornet glacier runs were superb with good cover. Leisse was a bit hard packed in places, but skiable as was the black off the top of the Grand Motte. I enjoyed Double M finally managing a couple of non-stop runs down it, but Sache was reportedly very stoney mid way down and I wasn't keen on doing further damage to the bases after the previous week in the 3 Valleys quarrys of Marmottes and Park City.
However all may be better now as snow was forecast for the middle of this week.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| leedssteve wrote: |
| If you feel up to it, the dotted blacks are seriously good fun. My experience of the week was, Val dotted black = steep mogul field. So if you love sustained bumps, then you'll love it, and its great for technique - I had just done a mogul course at 'Cas before we went, and by the end of the week in Val was loving the bumps. |
I attempted Piste S - it made it plain that I need some coaching on the bumps!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Val D'Isere /Tignes always had a bit of a reputation for having runs a bit harder than most for the grade.
I suspect that it is possibly less true now than it was. QUite a few of the old red runs have been regraded to black. The Leisse run spoken of above used to be a red run (and was never pisted). Combined with the regrading of runs a few of the slopes have been widened and are pisted regularly. Trolles used to be a solid mogul field that was never bashed and had a narrow section that became very 'ledgey' and awkward with huge bumps.
Most runs the difficulty is highly dependant on the snow. The high runs in val d'isere tend to keep their snow well and remain in good condition. The lower runs often suffer heavy traffic and become scraped and icy by the end of the day whatever their nominal grading. Sharp edges are as important as good technique to ski them sometimes and the volume of partially out of control skiers detract from the pleasure form even the biggest ice fans.
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I remember having a very wobbly moment on a short but nasty run called 'Épaule du charvet'. 
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I've only been to Val D'Isere once and unfortunately it was late in the season. Up the hill, the snow was fine but the runs down to La Daille, where we were staying were just slush. We thought that we would try skiing down to La Daille one morning, before it melted. What a nightmare. Yesterdays chopped up slush frozen solid! As some others here have commented, the blue down to Val gets chopped up at the end of the day. Car sized moguls and bodies everywhere. Not my favourite resort but it's probably much better earlier in the year.
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Poster: A snowHead
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If you find yourself getting around the EK without too much bother, then virtually anywhere else will seem like a doddle. It's the best area in the world (and I've been to them all, obv) for improving quickly.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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[/quote]
| leedssteve wrote: |
The hardest run for me, was Foret. This one goes through the trees, is extremely (for me), narrow in places, and gets seriously mogully. To be fair the run was closed, but it was nails, and snowing heavy, somehow my snowboarder mate did better than me (on moguls?!!).
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[quote="Steve84"I'd echo that. Non-stop car sized moguls. I did it flat-out without a break once, certainly gets the heart going!! Pretty much passed out by the restaurant at the bottom. Everyone was giving me odd looks and wandering why I was panting like a dog.
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Haha, knew I was doing something wrong! That sounds like the right approach....I had to stop a few times and found it so hard to get back in - that's why the boarder did so well, he just went straight down, no real turns....yep, I could hardly walk up the little hill to the bus stop at the end 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Gerard McNeely wrote: |
Sorry Monium, my last post crossed with yours.
I have skiied some blacks in Chamonix, Zermatt, Les Arcs and Whistler in a reasonable fashion. Reds are generally not a problem.
Struggled a little on the Swiss Wall in Avoriaz last year in icy, mogully conditions though... |
If you can do the Swiss Wall, you can easily do The Face. I happily went for it on the Face, and got down without difficulty, I wouldn't even consider the Swiss Wall in a million years. Well, maybe next season.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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i haven't read all the posts above but as an intermediate who does still fall over occassionally, I thought the Face was one of the better runs back to resort, though I would take it easy if you are tired.
Most of the runs back to resort are under rated in my view, blues should be red, greens should be blue, some greens are red in places.
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Moderate snow the last few days has really spruced up the runs. Face yesterday was very nice!
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Overall I found Val pretty hard as an intermediate in 2009, and since The Face was shut for the World Championships, the only ways down were to La Daille, or Santons. Neither was especially pleasant - the runs down to La Daillle were fine, having to queue for a bus at the bottom was a right pain. Santons is, as others have mentioned, a nightmare mainly due to traffic.
It's a pretty village and there are some great runs in Tignes, but I doubt we'll go back. Everyone in our group (all far more expert than me) preferred the other resorts we've visited - the 3V, Les Arcs and (especially) Whistler.
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Val d'Isere also has a huge amount of off piste - some very difficult, some easy, and everything in between. It is a very good place to start trying to ski it and I would recommend "Alpine Experience" as good people to go with - they will put you in a group of the same standard.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| ajrduff wrote: |
| Overall I found Val pretty hard as an intermediate in 2009 |
Some would say you weren't an intermediate in 2009, if you found Val hard.
| ajrduff wrote: |
| The Face was shut for the World Championships, the only ways down were to La Daille, or Santons. Neither was especially pleasant - the runs down to La Daillle were fine, having to queue for a bus at the bottom was a right pain. Santons is, as others have mentioned, a nightmare mainly due to traffic. |
Could you not take the Olympic cable car down?
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| Quote: |
The Face was shut for the World Championships, the only ways down were to La Daille, or Santons
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I don't know the area very well so can't quite remember but we skied down a run that started off parallel to the closed part of the Face (we stood there for a bit and watched Bode and Svindal flash past) and then looped off to the right but came around back in to town and brought us ion somewhere behind the grandstand and finish area. The run down seemed fine as I recall. There was certainly no bus involved 
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