 Poster: A snowHead
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Having a horrible time choosing some new skis. Wanting to move to something more favourable to short turns and higher performance than my current Rossignol Hero Elite MT CAs and I'm getting completely quagmired in the gazzilions of reviews out there.
Whittled it down to the:
Atomic Redsters S9
Dynastar Speed Master SL
Rossignol Hero Elite ST Ti
Now the most bloody confusing part is they all bloody come with different bloody bindings and bloody raceplates and bloody setups and I have no way of deciphering what the differences are apart from some are cheaper?
Can someone please please please help to define what the difference are between the different iterations and god forbid, help me find the right bloody ski.
Atomic Redster S9 X14 TL RS GW or the Atomic Redster S9 X12 TL R
Dynastar Speed Master SL R22 or Dynastar Speed Master SL SPX 12 Konect Dual
ROSSIGNOL Hero Elite ST TI R22 or ROSSIGNOL Hero Elite ST TI SPX 12 Konect Dual
I would honestly be eternally grateful and thats not even hyperbole.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Hi @Ratherbeabeardog, Welcome to the forum.
I was lucky enough to rent a pair of ROSSIGNOL Hero Elite ST TI for a couple of days in December.
I was sceptical about them until I was on them half an hour.
I really liked them, they have become my favourites now.
Ahead of Head Magnums.
Don't ask me anything about the bindings and plates though.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Re the Rossis and Dynastars a quick google suggests that R22 is the name of the raceplate (also featured on some 3rd party skis) and the SPX 12 is just the name of the binding. So without/with binding if that squares with the pricing.
But why not give someone like Bartletts or spyderjon a call who know their stuff here. I'd bet Jon can match most prices on Dynastars at least from reputable shops anyway ( bets off on the dodgy snowinn types)
https://www.thepisteoffice.com/
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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The "Konect" bit in one of each of the Rossignol and Dynastar skis is the plate that is built into the skis, there is one version of the SPX 12 binding that works with this plate and another version that would go on the R22 plate. You could also choose an SPX 15 or 18 binding for the R22 skis if you wanted.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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The R22 is the high performance plate, Konect is the more forgiving version. So just depends how good you are (or want to be) as to which you choose. Haven't skied them but was told that if I wanted to train for BASI L3, I should buy the Dynastar Speed Master SL R22 if that helps you benchmark their performance level.
I would expect the difference between them to mostly be in how the tail behaves - R22 will accelerate more with more rebound so if you're not well centred on the ski it's going to bite you, particularly in bumps. Konect should give you a split second to recover before it bites you if you're out of balance. Looking at the design, the R22 also has a much shorter overhang on the front so the tip should engage slightly earlier too. If you ski multiple weeks a year (or are super strong/fit/experienced) I'd take the R22, if you're a one/two week holiday skier I'd take the Konect.
Can't see any difference in the Atomic plates; think it's just the max DIN on the binding?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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It’s not that difficult.
Either buy the most expensive, or cheap, depending on your attitude to paltry human cash based transactions, or,
The ones that best match or clash with your racing pants.
Simples.
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R22 are fixed bindings and compatible with alpine boots only, Konnect are track bindings and compatible with Alpine, WTR and GripWalk boots.
No idea which you should choose, I just had 2 weeks on a pair of the Elite Plus Tis ( one of those rare summer ebay bargains), similar construction and turn radius to the ST just a bit wider and love them
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You'll all be glad to know I went for the Rossignol Hero Elite ST TI R22 + SPX 12.
Useful to know @Raceplate that you were suggested the Dynastar Speed Master SL R22 for your L3 which through some online research I'm told has a nearly identical construction to the Hero ST R22s and was also my same reasoning behind this purchase. Although I'm definitely nowhere near passing level yet, hopefully a more demanding raceplate might push me in that direction and if not, well I've bought them now so gonna have to put up and shut up.
Not sure if its fair to say but the general preference of the BASI and GB Ski mandem seems to be Dynastar?
( @under a new name actually the only reason I bought them is because they match my poles )
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I'm looking at these and have been advised that the Konnect is much more suitable for a BASI level 3 / 4 ski. My trainer skis on the R22 version and he's a full cert L4 with many years of experience. For a Eurotest ski he used the 24m 185cm version.
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| Powder Pete wrote: |
| I'm looking at these and have been advised that the Konnect is much more suitable for a BASI level 3 / 4 ski...... |
Totally wrong.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| spyderjon wrote: |
| Powder Pete wrote: |
| I'm looking at these and have been advised that the Konnect is much more suitable for a BASI level 3 / 4 ski...... |
Totally wrong. |
How so?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Powder Pete wrote: |
| I'm looking at these and have been advised that the Konnect is much more suitable for a BASI level 3 / 4 ski. My trainer skis on the R22 version and he's a full cert L4 with many years of experience. For a Eurotest ski he used the 24m 185cm version. |
and this is the reason that the ski instructor syllabus should contain an equipment module its all very well a trainer doling out advice, but i still see the odd one each year with boots a size too big or completely incorrect shape but based on a deal, on the other hand a lot of them have tested skis, but unless they can qualify why ski X is better for you than ski Y i would be wary
now i have never seen you ski, but if you are going for a level 3 or 4 then the konnect is a pretty soft plate, sure it would be ok for teaching on, but for the tech element i would want something with some more guts.... that and a GS ski and a slalom ski both react very differently, i would go so far as to say you might struggle to pass a eurotest on the ski with the konnect plate but it all depends on what you are looking to do, body weight, lever length and technical skills, i know a few level 2 instructors who either have a twin that passed their exam or had a really good day and a friendly trainer, and i know a lot more who are great, technical and powerful skiers
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https://www.elementconcept.com/isia-training-ski-advice-2020-2021/
He was recommending the Konnect more for the tech and teach specifically at level 3 and 4. His parents also own a ski shop and he skis the R22 version everyday. He was asking the R22 185cm version on the eurotest which we would probably never use for teaching and training. Of course he's is way better than me at skiing. I did have a flex or his ski and it felt a similar flex to the Atomic G9 which I've previously owned. I forced the E-speed in the shop and that was probably less stiff then my Blizzard Bhrama 82. I've seen a few of the girls are on the supershape and dynastar speedzone 12 (both recommendations for level 3). He advised against the E-race as it was probably the most hardcore ski of the bunch and more level 4.
In terms of length the atomic G7 was most comfortable for me in the 177cm but I have skied that in the 183. I also skied the stockli GS in the 180 with faceplate and found it amazing fun but extremely tiring and a big handful. I found the Stockli SC a very ideal ski for me for long and short turns and just in general performance. The green x9 was also amazing on hard piste and ice in the 181 but on steeps the 181 was maybe a bit much. It was also write horrible in variable snow and off piste. I found the atomics quite stiff.
The thing is we need a ski we can learn with, experiment with, ski all day and we are not racing. Lots of the skiing can be very slow, controlled and technical. We're nowhere near the finished article at the beginning of level 3 training so perhaps it's too make our lives easier and progress faster? Have a read about what he says about the various skis and see what you think.
I'm 180cm tall, inside leg around 30 inch and 90kg so he's recommending more something like the X9 / G9 or Konnect for me. I'm my skiing I'm still not forward enough and have a bad habit of letting my hips fall too far back at the end of the turn.
By the way I need new boots or liners at least. Was wondering about zipfit, intuition or surefoot. Any bootfitters that you very highly recommend in Verbier?
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You know it makes sense.
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The best boot fitter is Verbier is Sole in Chamonix!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Powder Pete wrote: |
| .....I'm 180cm tall, inside leg around 30 inch and 90kg so he's recommending more something like the X9 / G9 or Konnect for me....... |
Konect is a ski/binding interface system not a ski! You can only compare the Konect system to the binding system on the X9 or G9 but not to the actual skis. The Konect sytem compares to the Powerail system on the G9 whereas the R22 plate compares to the X-plate on the X9.
Konect is a consumer rail system not a race plate. Due to play between the rail and the binding the Konect system is nowhere near as positive as the R22 plate set-up. The Konect system has separate plastic toe and heel rails each with four fixed position screws (which limits the ski flex underneath) and the transparent plastic piece connecting the two rails has no function other than aesthetic. The R22 plate is a proper metal layered race plate that's a little stiffer longitudinally but with far greater torsional stiffness and is attached with only one pair of fixed position screws at each end and the other pair of fixings are floating studs to allow uninterrupted flexing of the ski underneath. Furthermore the bindings on the R22 are screwed directly to the plate to remove any play in the interface.
The Konect system has the SPX 12 binding whereas the R22 plate is predrilled for the SPX 14/15 Rockerace binding which is a higher spec with a heel mounting pattern designed specifically for use on the R22 plate to ensure free flexing of the ski.
The Speedzone 12 in only available with the Konect rail & SPX 12 binding. This ski is too soft for L3 so should only be recommended for L3 for lightweight users. If your trainer is recommending the Speedzone 12 to you for L3 then find a different trainer! In fact you need to go to whoever's advising Raceplate as their advice of the Omeglass Master SL for L3 is absolutely spot on!
There used to two other Speedzone models, the 14 & 16. They were actually the same ski but the 14 had the Konect rail system and the 16 had the R series race plate (I think it was the R21 plate then) but this ski has morphed in to the Master SL and it's available either with the R22 plate/SPX 14 Rockerace binding or the Konect rail/SPX 12 binding.
The other benefit of the R22 plate is that it's waaaay easier to shim the toes or heels to adjust the delta angle - in fact Look offer aftermarket skims'n'screw kits specifically for this purpose.
I run the Instructor Pro Deal programme in the UK/ROI for Dynastar/Look (for BASI, IASI or any other region) and sell a lot of these skis and I'd never sell someone of your stats the Speedzone 12/Konect for L3.
Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Thu 10-12-20 12:39; edited 1 time in total
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Powder Pete, I might be out of date but I thought the general consensus for L3 was to turn up on a detuned slalom ski? The Dynastar Master you're contemplating is the GS version, the one I was recommended is the SL version. In the longer lengths the Master GS has a turn radius of 19-21m. I reckon you'd need to be pretty bloody good to pass L3 on a ski with that radius so I'm not sure I understand the trainer's recommendation. I'm 179cm tall and 95kg+ these days so I would have taken the Master SL in its longest 173cm length with a 14m radius (still might as there's a chance I could get 6-8 weeks in this season and lose a bit of weight  ).
If you were most comfortable on the Stockli SC then that is also a slalom style sidecut with a c.15m radius depending on length so I don't get why you're even considering GS style skis. For reference, my daily driver is a 20m radius Kastle MX83 which I'm sure I could pass L2 on tomorrow without any issue but I'm also sure that I could never show sufficiently dynamic enough carving skills on that radius for L3.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Thu 10-12-20 12:46; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@spyderjon, looks like I was writing my post as you posted yours. I was advised by Andy Jerram (BASI Trainer, you may know him, he lives in the Midlands) who has seen me ski on both mountains (years ago) and in a dome on my last licence refresher. I was more surprised by the 67mm waist width recommendation than anything else but he was adamant they would suit me.
Dynastar are not listed on the BASI Pro deal website - would you mind pm'ing me a current member's pricelist?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Raceplate, yep, I know Andy well. The Pro Deal price list is in pdf format so please PM me you email address.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| CEM wrote: |
and this is the reason that the ski instructor syllabus should contain an equipment module |
Amen to that. Despite being one of BASIs six 'performance threads' the eqiuipment section in the manual is 15 pages, 10 of which are a not-very-good guide to servicing skis and the others basically define a few terms around skis and boots without really offering any guidance.
A couple of years ago I actually had a disagreement with an L4 who claimed that boot sole length had no influence on DIN setting....
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I am always amazed to find that most (ime) L3's doing 4 techs or ET training didn't know how to service their own skis...
As far as binders go listen to Jon, he is spot on...The Konect (as most rail systems) sucks for high performance skiing. I broke several rail bindings and will only ski on race plates and decent metal binders. If you are thinking of L3 or L4 skiing levels and ski athletically you will need decent binders to get the most from the skis
The SPX 15 with R22 plate is a great binder that gives the tail a bit more flex and really works when loading the tail up and releasing at the end of the turn... I ski those on my SL and GS skis as well as on my SpeedZone 14's for teaching. I also like the old tyrolia / head free flex pros. rock solid
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Yes I realise the Konnekt part is only referring to the binding system. I do see a lot of BASI trainees on short skis with a slalom radius. I did my L1 and L2 with the Austrian system and the general consensus was get as close to head height and get a detuned GS ski. My previous ski for that was the Atomic G9 in a 177cm 18.5 radius.
Most of the skis he recommended are 15m - 18m. I've skied the X9 WB and found the radius short meaning for longer turns I'd just have to let the pressure right off. I liked it for short turns but that's about it. I quite like around a 16-17m radius. The radius on the 181cm green X9 actually felt quite small at 16.5 probably because it's so easy to get edge angle on such a narrow ski. I can't say I ever had a problem with the G9 style binding but I came across a dodgy X9 where the binding moved when I was skiing and release me. I always felt like the G9 was really stiff - more than stiff enough really. I wonder how the Konnect and race plate version of the ski would compare to the G9 as a reference point or a Stockli GS.
I'd be tempted to get the Dynastar in the 189cm at 19m. It's quite close to the G9 I had at 18.5m radius although at the time I felt the radius was a little longer than i'd like. I'm not sure about dropping down to the 173cm which seems very short for me but does come closer to a more ideal radius.
Would you recommend a Stockli SC with the SRT D20 plate for level 3 and 4 (assuming a different ski for the eurotest)? I know it's very much on the expensive side and might be able to find something just as good cheaper but i'm not sure what. I hear great things about the Stockli WRT but I imagine it's a bit too hefty as an everyday ski with its world cup construction especially in the 180 size. Stockli skis do seem very flexing though. It could be very similar to the green X9 actually?
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