 Poster: A snowHead
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Anybody riding these?
As far as I'm aware they seem to be as responsive as strap ins, and given that I need new boots anyway, I'm looking at getting some for a treat!
It looks like the boots available are photon, ion or swath but I've no idea what these are like in terms of flex, comfort, warmth etc.
Does anyone have experience of the boots?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Paxo, there was quite a long thread about the bindings, photons and ions recently. Should come up if you search for the boots.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I ride step ons (photons) & cant see me ever going back to conventional bindings.
Can help with comfort as I have custom footbeds
I never got cold feet in the liners that came with the boots.
The stiffness & responsiveness works well for me - can't say that is going to be the same for everyone.
No more skating off lifts - just double lock in before you get on & off you go.
No doubt you will have the poopooing brigade along saying they are rubbish, not worth it, etc. without actually having tried them themselves.
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@mgrolf, thanks - I did search first, obviously not hard enough!
@Mr.Egg, I'm sold on the system if I can get the right boots. Haven't heard a bad report yet.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@Mr.Egg, cheers that's exactly what I was looking for. Swath or Proton for me I reckon, just need to find somewhere that actually has them so I can give them a try.
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I bought from Burton.com or was it .eu directly as they do free returns. I bought two sizes of two different (women's) styles of boot, spent a couple of hours in each walking around my house, then sent back the three unsuitable pairs. Temporarily very expensive way to do it, but there's nowhere in Ireland to try them on in a shop. Got refund within 4 days of return courier collecting unwanted boots from my house.
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I tried some new release ions yesterday. Found them crazy uncomfortable around the heel/achilles. Nice boots but not for me. I wore them for 5 minutes and was still hobbling around an hour later.
Might have another look when DC release their compatible boots. I must have weird feet, but definitely not a good idea to buy without trying.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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The lock/release design of the binding is great. Pity about the Boa Ruler boots I tried. Why so bulky? I’d normally ride a medium binding but with these fatties I’m suddenly a bigger sized boot and a large size binding. Just not a great fit for me. Also not convinced that the single Boa lace on the Ruler will keep my heel secure. Not for me for now. Hopefully more boot options become available. Salomon F22 boot + step on binding combo would be perfect!
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Hey @skidm, I'm in F22s (the early ones which were stiffer) and they're beginning to self destruct - the boot material is starting to delaminate where the boots flex - and might need new boots next season. I was half wondering about taking the opportunity to switch over to step ins...
My feet are narrow enough around the ankle/heel, more average forefoot, which I think is why the sallies seem to fit me. How does the Burton shape feel? When you say single boa might not hold heel secure, is this foot shape/boot fit or lacing type?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@rogg, my feet are narrow too. I much prefer a more compact boot like the F22. By comparison side by side the Ruler is huge (I did need 1 size bigger with the Ruler). Also, it felt like the Ruler didn’t provide much arch support. The Ruler uses a single boa. I think a twin boa for the lower and upper zones would provide a better fit. However, we’re all different and the Burton boots may be perfect for you, so why not give ‘em a try!?
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| skidm wrote: |
| The lock/release design of the binding is great. |
after the initial problems upon release.
I was gently going down a blue when the heel lock was not engaged fully & popped out. Heel edge on foot & styled it out so collapsing in a heap did not look like a total wipe out.
I had the newer cleats on me luckily, so swapped them there & then on the side of the piste. No issues since.
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Do any of the top riders use step ons? I'm thinking of getting some but want to see the big boys (or girls) wearing them first.
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You know it makes sense.
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Its been covered a lot on this forum.
Pros:
- seem as responsive as regular bindings
- save time (although I question this is much more than a minute or two per day for proficient riders than can strap in relatively quickly)
Cons:
- Limits your choice of boots considerably
- more expensive (the step on version of boots are more expensive than their regular model, the step on stuff also doesn't seem to ever be reduced in sales, unlike regular boots and bindings where you can pick last year's stuff up at a big saving.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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more than a minute or two
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Poster: A snowHead
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| boarder2020 wrote: |
Its been covered a lot on this forum.
Pros:
- seem as responsive as regular bindings
- save time (although I question this is much more than a minute or two per day for proficient riders than can strap in relatively quickly)
Cons:
- Limits your choice of boots considerably
- more expensive (the step on version of boots are more expensive than their regular model, the step on stuff also doesn't seem to ever be reduced in sales, unlike regular boots and bindings where you can pick last year's stuff up at a big saving. |
Thanks, but I've seen the pros and cons. I'm interested in which big riders use them. I saw a Travis Rice video (from 2020) this am and noticed him tightening the straps on his bindings. I know he's sponsored by Union, so that may restrict him, but I wondered if anyone knows which big players do use them as that would be the ultimate endorsement.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Burton splashed them out to all their Pro-Rider team so there are videos out there of of Pros using Step-on, but they are all Step-on promo videos as far as I've seen... do people use them? Well, that's a different question.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@mregg a proficient rider can strap in while riding at that speed too. Plenty of times I've ridden straight of a lift and strapped in while still moving. It takes around 10seconds to strap in (two feet) less if coming off a chair with 1 foot already strapped in. Even if the step ons take zero seconds to get into (seems overly optimistic) you would need around 12 transitions to save 2 minutes.
Other than riding indoors or some resort with tiny vertical meaning lots of transitioning, I just can't see the time savings adding up to anything significant. With the most optimistic outlook for step ons you are hoping to save enough time to get one extra uplift per day. Assuming an average lift time of around 5mins you would need more than that to get an extra 2 uplifts, which I just can't see the step ons providing. For me one uplift extra per day is not significant, and judging by how few people ski non-stop first lift to last lift I would say it is true for most people.
(Of course this is all for decent riders, beginners will probably get more time savings but are not really the focus of this thread).
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I'm interested in which big riders use them.
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AFAIK none.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Tue 27-10-20 14:22; edited 1 time in total
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Richard_Sideways, yep but I thought Masa Takeuchi uses them?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| boarder2020 wrote: |
@mregg a proficient rider can strap in while riding at that speed too. Plenty of times I've ridden straight of a lift and strapped in while still moving. It takes around 10seconds to strap in (two feet) less if coming off a chair with 1 foot already strapped in. Even if the step ons take zero seconds to get into (seems overly optimistic) you would need around 12 transitions to save 2 minutes.
Other than riding indoors or some resort with tiny vertical meaning lots of transitioning, I just can't see the time savings adding up to anything significant. With the most optimistic outlook for step ons you are hoping to save enough time to get one extra uplift per day. Assuming an average lift time of around 5mins you would need more than that to get an extra 2 uplifts, which I just can't see the step ons providing. For me one uplift extra per day is not significant, and judging by how few people ski non-stop first lift to last lift I would say it is true for most people.
(Of course this is all for decent riders, beginners will probably get more time savings but are not really the focus of this thread).
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I'm interested in which big riders use them.
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AFAIK none. |
I think the time saving/inconvenience is way more than that. Think about the lifts which have a difficult exit path and you have to slide or skate over to the side so you're in a spot where you both dont get in people's way. Then compare that to just seamlessly clicking in as you exit. Yes you can sometimes do that with normal bindings but only if some moron isn't stopped right in front of where you get off the lift, which is more often than not. For me it's not about squeezing in an extra lap, it's about having less interruption every time you take a lift
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@Ryunis, Every boarder i've ever skied alongside does the trademark faff for 2-3 minutes minimum at lift exits, does 4-5 360's, blames and mutters at everyone around them for getting in the way of THEIR exit line, and these must therefore help them......they might even keep up if these catch on, one guy actually said I should make allowances for boarders and choose my routes for the day avoiding flattish sections to access powder.....ahem me thinks not 
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@Mr.Egg, Burton suggest Danny Davis uses them.
Ultimately - does it matter? Pros either use what they've been sponsored to use, or what they prefer. If they're sponsored to do it, then it's just an advert. If its their preference, then an opinion is no more valid than your own, less so even.
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| Markymark29 wrote: |
| @Ryunis, Every boarder i've ever skied alongside does the trademark faff for 2-3 minutes minimum at lift exits, does 4-5 360's, blames and mutters at everyone around them for getting in the way of THEIR exit line, and these must therefore help them......they might even keep up if these catch on, one guy actually said I should make allowances for boarders and choose my routes for the day avoiding flattish sections to access powder.....ahem me thinks not |
Maybe just ride with boarder2020?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
Think about the lifts which have a difficult exit path and you have to slide or skate over to the side so you're in a spot where you both dont get in people's way. Then compare that to just seamlessly clicking in as you exit.
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I don't really get your example. If you are a proficient rider you should be ok riding with just one foot strapped in, then strapping in on the go. But ime most lifts are on a bit of a flat area anyway so usually a bit of skating is necessary, meaning stepping in is of little advantage as would need to then step out to skate anyway.
For many of us strapping in is just not the issue it seems to be for some of you. I can't really think of any examples where strapping in was an inconvenience and step ons would have made things better for me personally. The disadvantages (lack of compatibility, lack of boot choice, increased cost) completely outweigh the very limited upside (slight saving of time) for me. Your mileage may differ.
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Every boarder i've ever skied alongside does the trademark faff for 2-3 minutes minimum at lift exits, does 4-5 360's, blames and mutters at everyone around them for getting in the way of THEIR exit line, and these must therefore help them
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You are going out with the wrong people. I've ridden with plenty of borders and can't say I've met any that bad other than complete beginners. I won't deny some snowboarders like a faff, but same is true for just as many skiers ime.
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| Quote: |
Maybe just ride with boarder2020?
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I'm not a faffer. Unless it's a powder day and race for untracked, I'm not exactly rushing at the top either though. I have ridden 60-100 days the last few years and might have done 3 days at most first lift to last lift. So saving time is of little benefit to me in terms of in bounds snowboarding.
For backcountry snowboarding I'm currently looking at making the switch to hardboots and phantom bindings as I feel the time savings and performance benefits are worth it. So I'm really not against new technology. I just don't feel step ons offer any real benefit for most decent level snowboarders (maybe the reason most Burton pros haven't made the switch), and have some obvious disadvantages (I don't want to pay more or ride Burton/DC boots).
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Markymark29 wrote: |
| Every boarder i've ever skied alongside does the trademark faff for 2-3 minutes minimum at lift exits, does 4-5 360's, blames and mutters at everyone ... |
You need to get off the bunny hill.
| boarder2020 wrote: |
| ... For backcountry snowboarding I'm currently looking at making the switch to hardboots and phantom bindings as I feel the time savings and performance benefits are worth it. So I'm really not against new technology. I just don't feel step ons offer any real benefit for most decent level snowboarders (maybe the reason most Burton pros haven't made the switch) |
As stated, convenience isn't an issue for anyone who can ride. It feels a bit like those people who whine about button lifts, hard to understand once you've learned to ride.
My own Burton-connected washed-up professional who rides the Step On stuff I think likes the responsiveness, fwiw.
Phantom's stuff is very interesting. I used their springs on my Backlands last year, and they're a great product, more elegantly engineered than some older US product (Catek, Bomber).
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Quote: |
My own Burton-connected washed-up professional who rides the Step On stuff I think likes the responsiveness, fwiw.
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I have a friend who works for Burton and also rides step ons. They say they can't tell the difference between step ons and regular bindings in terms of responsiveness. I certainly don't think step ons are a downgrade in terms of performance.
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Thanks! Lots of useful information about shoes for boarding. I myself looked at the reviews on YouTube, but still the experience of real people, who can be asked in case of additional questions, is much more profitable.
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You know it makes sense.
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If you want the best of both worlds and are prepared to take a small risk on a Kickstarter you could look at the soul step in
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/soulstick/quick-step-snowboard-binding
The guy behind it has a long track record in Kayaking of actually bringing products to market. His latest venture does both kayaks and his other love, snowboards.
https://www.soulwaterman.com/collections/soulstick
However, his business model is definitely around low cost manufacturing in china. Build quality might be an issue after looking at the outfitting in one of the kayaks I saw recently.
But looks an interesting take on the step in Vs trade binding.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@boater_rich,
they look awful big & cumbersome. Look more of a conventional binding.
no idea what the person in the video is trying to do with step on & his commentry seems to have no idea either.
Oh & a nice slowed down video of step on while comparing it to his.
They look like a modified pair of flow bindings
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Quote: |
If you want the best of both worlds and are prepared to take a small risk on a Kickstarter you could look at the soul step in...But looks an interesting take on the step in Vs trade binding.
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It seems like a pointless invention. If someone doesn't want to deal with straps, step ons make more sense. If someone wants more traditional style bindings without needing to use straps each time you step in flow bindings already do this. This current project seems like the worst of both worlds.
Most people avoiding step ons are not doing it because they prefer trad bindings - most people I know that tried them say they feel exactly the same as regular bindings. People's issues with step ons tend to be: cost, limited boot options, don't believe regular bindings are particularly difficult or slow to use.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I learned to snowboard on a rental that had those early 2000's K2 step on systems.
Amazing on the first run of the day or in warmer slushy snow that would easily press out, but on an overcast day after taking the highest lifts, the snow in the mating pockets in the boot would ice up and the system just wouldn't click.
There were occasions I had to take off my boots and poke about with a screwdriver. I'll have straps.
It only makes me about 10 seconds slower than a skier...
Mate had similar issues with the rossignol system.
I'd assume they adressed some of these issues but from watching pictures on the internet, the new K2 system looks nearly identical. Haven't tried the Burton's though.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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The new K2 system is very different to Burton Step On and in theory much more likely to get jammed with snow/ice and make locking in difficult.
Burton Step On is by no means perfect and can be difficult to engage in deep powder but I understand it's pretty great as a convenience item for the majority of conditions. Again, convenience but it does only take 10 seconds to strap up, and you have unlimited boot and binding choice. It's really pretty impressive for what it is though. I rode with someone who had them for a week at an instruction camp and it looks really damn nice. Don't think it's going to be that big a deal for most intermediate to advanced riders though.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Mountain Surfer,
burton are a huge company in the snowboarding scene, but not big enough to make stepon fail if they either dont make it affordable at all levels or to expensive to licence.
The system works. it locks you in. I have not had any ice-over problems like the old style ones.
If done correctly, it would make boarding more accessible. All my skier mates say they would try boarding if they could rent step-on, but have no interest currently in using bindings, when they are used to cliping in & out of skis.
Also they benefit anyone with mobility issues or disabilities.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Yeah I’d agree with all of that. They certainly make things accessible and convenient. I do think however that for solid intermediate and advanced riders they probably don’t offer too much; those riders are likely mostly happy with the few seconds extra to strap up, the unlimited choice in boots/bindings and the cheaper cost of traditional gear. I’d totally get some myself if they were cheap and I had more time on snow than I do, now that they do Photon wide boots, as those are basically the only boots I can wear due to my EEE width feet.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
If done correctly, it would make boarding more accessible
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The biggest factors in snowboard accessibility are cost and access. I don't really see a binding increasing snowboard numbers much.
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All my skier mates say they would try boarding if they could rent step-on
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You have very different friends to me! Skis are much more practical overall - ability to step up, move on flats etc. They are also better for touring, and having two edges allows for a higher degree of difficulty than snowboarding (go watch the world freeride tour and it's clear ski is at a much higher level than snowboard). If practicality was such a big issue everyone would be moving from snowboard to skis. Do I think there are a lot of people that dismiss snowboarding just for strapping in each run? Probably a few, but I think the number that would move from skiing to snowboarding just because of step on bindings is tiny.
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Also they benefit anyone with mobility issues or disabilities
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What mobility issues/disabilities are there where you can't sit on a bench to strap in but can ride a snowboard? Also it doesn't solve the problem as you still have to bend down to unlock them to step out.
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@boarder2020,
I gave my skier friends an example about accessibility.
My group is late 30s to mid 40's, so after 20-30 years of skiing, they say they would give snowboarding a try if it wasnt for all the faff of dealing with the bindings. Especially after seeing one skier mate convert to snowboarding so easily after a knee injury.
for disability/mobility, you can tie string to release mechanism & run it up inside your trousers (which is good practice in any binding).
I have a serious knee issue & binding up is very troublesome to position my foot in the right position & I can't get heel pressure down. As the stepon engages right at the point where I lose the ability to press with my heal, its almost perfect.
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I have a serious knee issue & binding up is very troublesome to position my foot in the right position & I can't get heel pressure down
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The position of your foot is the same for either binding type. If you can't press with your heel how do you turn?
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My group is late 30s to mid 40's, so after 20-30 years of skiing, they say they would give snowboarding a try if it wasnt for all the faff of dealing with the bindings
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If it's true I would say your group does not reflect the norm. Most skiers I know have zero interest in switching as they see it as inferior to skiing (powder, twin tipped skis have leveled the playing field in terms of downhill). Getting stuck on flats, going from proficient skier back to beginner stage, falling/injury would be far more concern. Strapping into bindings is hardly "faff", it takes <10secs once proficient. The majority of people spend plenty of time faffing, of which strapping in is fairly insignificant.
If strapping in was as difficult and time consuming as some make out, we would see thousands of boarders switching to skiing.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| boarder2020 wrote: |
| Quote: |
[some skiers] say they would give snowboarding a try if it wasnt for all the faff of dealing with the bindings
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If it's true I would say your group does not reflect the norm. Most skiers I know have zero interest in switching as they see it
as inferior to skiing (powder, twin tipped skis have leveled the playing field in terms of downhill). |
I don't think it's a major issue either way, although I'd guess that the traditional low-technology of snowboard bindings doesn't sell well to
skiers who are used to fairly high levels of technology in their own bindings. "What, you want me to tie-wrap my feet to it?"
As far as the expert back country powder skiers I meet, most of them have at have at least tried snowboarding.
Expert piste skiers tend to be more negative about snowboarding. I'd guess that's because
most snowboarders they see aren't very good, not because their bindings are primitive.
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[quote="boarder2020"]
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I have a serious knee issue & binding up is very troublesome to position my foot in the right position & I can't get heel pressure down
The position of your foot is the same for either binding type. If you can't press with your heel how do you turn?
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No its not, as you engage the step on heel first. My heel locks in before I need to engage the toes. This guides my foot into the correct position.
Traditional bindings - I struggle to get my heel flat & aligned. It's difficult to explain, but as soon as my knee bends my heel lifts. If my knee bends to much, then I can't straighten it unaided.
As for turning, my bindings are not aligned, so I get a little extra weight on the heel edge.
On the positive side, it's really easy to ride switch!
Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads  on Sat 21-11-20 8:26; edited 1 time in total
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FAQ
