Ski Club 2.0 Home
Snow Reports
FAQFAQ

Mail for help.Help!!

Log in to snowHeads to make it MUCH better! Registration's totally free, of course, and makes snowHeads easier to use and to understand, gives better searching, filtering etc. as well as access to 'members only' forums, discounts and deals that U don't even know exist as a 'guest' user. (btw. 50,000+ snowHeads already know all this, making snowHeads the biggest, most active community of snow-heads in the UK, so you'll be in good company)..... When you register, you get our free weekly(-ish) snow report by email. It's rather good and not made up by tourist offices (or people that love the tourist office and want to marry it either)... We don't share your email address with anyone and we never send out any of those cheesy 'message from our partners' emails either. Anyway, snowHeads really is MUCH better when you're logged in - not least because you get to post your own messages complaining about things that annoy you like perhaps this banner which, incidentally, disappears when you log in :-)
Username:-
 Password:
Remember me:
durr, I forgot...
Or: Register
(to be a proper snow-head, all official-like!)

Need slow skis

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Hello everyone,

Total noob here. I have been skiing as a kid, but now, 30 years later I am trying to get back on skis.

I bought a pair of Völkl Racetiger skis, but whatever I do it goes so fast for my taste. I end up fighting with the skis the whole day, no enjoyment at all.

Can you recommend a pair of skis for a beginner, that are slower and easier to handle?
Thanks in advance.

Vladi
snow conditions
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Welcome to SHs, @Angelovski. snowHead Anticipating what people who really know about this will ask, how long are those skis, and what are your height and weight? Skis now are VERY different from 30 years ago, and often much shorter. Other things being equal (which they aren't always) shorter skis will be a bit easier but techniques have changed too. Have you had some lessons since getting back into it?
latest report
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Ok, I'll bite. You can always grind the base or sand blast it instead of having it waxed. That should definitely help. No point in wasting time on lessons.
latest report
 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
Try Green runs instead of Black runs ?
snow conditions
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Wot @pam w says, plus what is the model and size of the Racetigers you have? You are correct though, generally the Racetiger is quite an advanced ski (quite stiff) and not something I would pick out for a beginner, so I'm not surprised you are struggling.

Do you live near the mountains? If you do, then look at buying a second-hand ski for maybe an intermediate skier. Something around 75-80mm in the waist, and designed as piste/all-mountain. If you don't live near the mountains, then I would hire skis for now. Either way, you will probably outgrow the skis quite quickly (with a few lessons), so I wouldn't spend too much money just yet.
ski holidays
 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
http://www.raxski.com/?lang=en

Just lean back to slam on the brakes, next big thing, has been for the last 10 years
latest report
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@Angelovski, welcome to snowHeads snowHead .

You could always sell your Volkl Racetigers (there’s a clue in the name) on this site.

Something like an Atomic Vantage 75 or Rossignol Experience 74 might suit your current needs better.

Another option is to hire for a week and pay a little more to try out two or three different skis before deciding whether to buy.

With a few lessons you would certainly become Vladi the Improver.
snow report
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
If all you have previously known are old school "straight" skis, that were probably 20-30cm longer and had a sidecut that gave a turning radius 4x greater - the chances are you will be left behind in a turn until you make some adjustments to your technique.

As has been suggested above, lessons are the way to go - along with keeping to easy slopes until you get the hang of things again on modern carving skis.
snow report
 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Lessons and hired skis for a couple of weeks. Then start to consider buying.
snow conditions
 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Welcome @Angelovski,

I don't have a huge amount to add. Racetigers are pretty rigid and not really very forgiving. So unless you are skiing them well, and +/- with "modern" technique, they are just going to be hard work and No Fun At All.

Hiring to find something you like is a pretty good idea. Aim for something "described" at your "level".

And lessons. Skiing has changed much in 30 years. I mean, not fundamentally, you still turn by carving, just to a much, much greater degree than 30 years ago.
snow conditions
 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@Angelovski, welcome to snowHeads. I think a better term for what you are looking for is a 'soft ski' rather than a 'slow ski'. Being on a pair of overly-stiff skis for your experience and ability level can be a tiring and somewhat demoralising experience.
latest report
 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Definitely lessons. Plus, if you are nervous of the skis running away from you; you may be leaning back away from the perceived danger (back seating). Unfortunately this will result in the skis accelerating and as you will be in the back seat, you will struggle to control/steer the skis; compounding the problem.

Lessons and as many hours in your nearest snowdome as you can manage.
snow report
 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
under a new name wrote:


And lessons. Skiing has changed much in 30 years. I mean, not fundamentally, you still turn by carving, just to a much, much greater degree than 30 years ago.

Being pedantic - very (very) few actually carved 30 years ago.

Carving skis when put on edge, accelerate you round the turn much more quickly - which can be disconcerting at first.

Saying all that - I agree with your general premise.
snow report
 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Slow skis? - I guess I could go into the shed and see what the missus are skiing on Toofy Grin
snow conditions
 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@Old Fartbag, but pedanting right back at you, (in fairness, it was mostly much more of a "skarve") but most reasonably advanced skiers were turning by getting skis on edge, pressured and the ski was then turning at least partially by dint of sidecut.
latest report
 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Wow, thank you for all valuable opinions. There are a lot good points to think about.
RaceTiger, yeah, I should of known what that means....

I live in area with ski centers so there are a lot of secondhand skis on the market.

Any particylar models I should search for?
Thanks again!
ski holidays
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Quote:
Slow skis? - I guess I could go into the shed and see what the missus are skiing on
Laughing You told her you've posted this DanishRider?
ski holidays
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@Angelovski, be careful what you buy. If it's courtesy of any online sale, you could post here before committing?

I live in a well known ski station and much of the ex-rental stuff is overpriced rubbish. Best place to buy here are the pre-season ski sales. Most local villages have one. Pay close attention to how much edge is left.
ski holidays
 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
@Angelovski, welcome - try the single ski, otherwise known as a snowboard wink
ski holidays
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
under a new name wrote:
@Old Fartbag, but pedanting right back at you, (in fairness, it was mostly much more of a "skarve") but most reasonably advanced skiers were turning by getting skis on edge, pressured and the ski was then turning at least partially by dint of sidecut.

Yup, skarve covers it.
latest report
 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
Quote:

Total noob here. I have been skiing as a kid, but now, 30 years later I am trying to get back on skis.

Classic mistake for people who hasn't skied for decades!

Skis has changed a lot. The technique on how to use them changed too.

A quick lesson to get up-to-date on technique would be valuable. But that's only if the OP is receptive to change old ways of skiing.

What happened to your old skis? That might work ok with the old technique than jumping into buying yet another new pair of skis!
latest report
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@abc, isn't that compounding the problem?
snow conditions
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Old Fartbag wrote:
... Being pedantic - very (very) few actually carved 30 years ago. ...
I was just reading this and disagreeing with some of the basic premises here.

Many of us happily carved both skis and snowboards 30 years ago.
In the UK Ali Ross even had 1980s books which were focused on getting Sunday Times readers to carve.

The good news is that it's much easier to learn now, but many people did learn to ski back then anyway.

--
On the OP - rent some stuff and take a few lessons until you work it out.
ski holidays
 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
philwig wrote:
Old Fartbag wrote:
... Being pedantic - very (very) few actually carved 30 years ago. ...
I was just reading this and disagreeing with some of the basic premises here.

Many of us happily carved both skis and snowboards 30 years ago.
In the UK Ali Ross even had 1980s books which were focused on getting Sunday Times readers to carve.

The good news is that it's much easier to learn now, but many people did learn to ski back then anyway.

--
On the OP - rent some stuff and take a few lessons until you work it out.

IMO. To carve back then, required high speed, great technique and all the weight on the downhill ski.

I have both Ali Ross books and his Video and was a big fan. He certainly advocated using the edges and the shape of the sidecut to turn, with little or no foot steering (GS type turns) - and using angulation, by getting the hip inside the turn - "The Wee seat", I think he called it...but I would still argue that these were not "pure" carved turns, where 2 railway tracks were left. I think UANN's term of Skarve is more accurate, as the shape of the ski/edge/pressure, dictated the turn rather than a skid...but there was still an element of "slip". IIRC. The turning radius of these skis was 50-60m - so to turn with a pure carved turn required long radius turns at considerable speed - which is what was required to bend the ski, which had little in the way of sidecut to help out.

Even now with Carving skis available - many people assume they are carving, when in fact they are (strictly) not (and I include me in that).


Last edited by You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net. on Thu 15-10-20 15:55; edited 3 times in total
snow report
 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
mountainaddict wrote:
Quote:
Slow skis? - I guess I could go into the shed and see what the missus are skiing on
Laughing You told her you've posted this DanishRider?

No ... I would like to experience winter again ... likely not going to happen if she ever finds out I posted this here Skullie Toofy Grin Very Happy
snow report
 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
under a new name wrote:
@abc, isn't that compounding the problem?

Not if the OP just want to ski the way he used to.

This business of BUYING new skis on internet recommendation is an odd business. No information on the weight/height/ability of the skier, no interest in disclosing the length of the ski that's "too fast"...

The OP may need some lesson or hire a few skis before buying. But I suspect he really needs to get his head examined first!
ski holidays
 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Quote:

In the UK Ali Ross even had 1980s books which were focused on getting Sunday Times readers to carve.

I'd like to say it worked for me ... other may disagree Toofy Grin
snow report
 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
If we're being pedantic we should inform Vladimir that the word is "have", not "of" Toofy Grin
ski holidays
 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Nothing changes.....except the colour of my shades ....

snow report
 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@Yoda, You must have changed those boots by now ??!?!!

Is that Ali Ross in the foreground ?
snow conditions
 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@albob, ah yes the boots are now orange and the shades are dark ...it is indeed himself snowHead

We were called "Rossers" in those days - at least that's what I think I heard Toofy Grin

Ali is wearing a suit from the late-lamented Phoenix brand (not to be confused with Phenix (Japanese?))

From my matching poles I must have been on K2 Extremes in that shot - as used by Glen Plake, but they didn't do it for me Laughing


Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Thu 15-10-20 17:05; edited 2 times in total
ski holidays
 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Ali Ross was a blast of fresh air - someone with an apparently instinctive grasp of physics. His books got me edging both skis.

Old Fartbag wrote:
... I would still argue that these were not "pure" carved turns, where 2 railway tracks were left. I think UANN's term of Skarve is more accurate, as the shape of the ski/edge/pressure, dictated the turn rather than a skid...but there was still an element of "slip". .
Ross talks specifically about the feeling of being on rails, and that was a key image for me at least.
I agree that the equipment was significantly less flexible in the speeds it would work at and certainly driving GS skis slowly or especially
on a plastic slope for example required a lot of skid. As far as I remember carving wasn't widely taught, but then lessons were for beginners...
I skied with many people who like me had learned to carve: we thought it was just learning to ski.

Old Fartbag wrote:
.... Even now with Carving skis available - many people assume they are carving, when in fact they are (strictly) not ....

Absolutely. Some people apparently think the word "carve" means simply "turn".
latest report
 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
philwig wrote:
Ali Ross was a blast of fresh air - someone with an apparently instinctive grasp of physics. His books got me edging both skis.


He was.

He was the first person to explain to me how a ski turns as a result of its design.....and was the first person who I saw, not to teach the up-unweight, turn the feet and sink down. He explained that the loss in height should be the result of the hips dropping inside the turn - and the rise in height was simply the result of changing edges. He also went to a lot of effort to explain that the "shapes" needed while skiing were as a result of counteracting the pull of gravity.

Finally, the motions needed for skiing started to make sense to me.

I completely agree that he introduced a carving orientated mentality/image - but the reason I was being a pedant, is I was talking about carving in its truest form. If you use his techniques from back then, on current carving skis - I believe you would be carving.
ski holidays
 You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
@philwig,
Quote:

In the UK Ali Ross even had 1980s books which were focused on getting Sunday Times readers to carve.


If you are referring to the Sunday Times, "We Learned to Ski", a first run (1974) copy of which is sitting beside me, indeed he did. Had an enormous influence on my skiing motivation and ambition. Esp. carving. The section on being a canny skier also resonated, especially as I did all my skiing at the time in Scotland, where a lack of situational awareness would result in bits of vegetation between your teeth.

@Old Fartbag,

Quote:

To carve back then, required high speed (No, not at all, IME, in fact, it's arguably easier to carve while moving slowly), great technique (I dunno. If I could do it ...) and all the weight on the downhill ski (yes, well, pretty much that, at least on firm snow).
snowHead snowHead
snow report
 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
under a new name wrote:

To carve back then, required high speed (No, not at all, IME, in fact, it's arguably easier to carve while moving slowly), great technique (I dunno. If I could do it ...) and all the weight on the downhill ski (yes, well, pretty much that, at least on firm snow).
snowHead snowHead

After a bit of googling to back up my assertion, I submit this paragraph from an American ski instructor (yeah, I know, he's American) to the jury:

"These days everyone is ranting and raving about carving. In a carved turn, the tail of the ski passes through the same point in the snow as the tip of the ski, leaving a pencil thin track in the snow. When you carve a turn, you will feel a “G” force. It’s really cool. With straight skis, only giant slalom and downhill skiers were carving their turns because you needed a lot of room and a lot of speed. Shape skis have a shorter turn radius than straight skis. They can carve turns at much slower speeds and shorter distances than straight skis can".

NehNeh
snow conditions
 You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
Hello there,

A big thank to everyones constructive suggestions.
Especially to one member who suggested to have my head checked.
That was clever, wow!

Here are the stats, I am 182cm tall, weight 85kg,
and skis are: Völkl Racetiger, 173cm long, tail-98, waist-67, tip-114, radius 16,4.

I hope this helps.

Looking forward for answers.
snow report
 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@Angelovski, You don't need slower skis, just better skills. Admittedly some nice soft noodles will help and quicken the learning process and as above, go and rent some . . . AS LONG AS YOU GO AND GET SOME DECENT TUITION WITH THEM! 3 or 4 weeks just might find yourself really enjoying the Racetigers. But the biggest issue is having the confidence in your skills to relax into your skis. Excess speed on snow can be achieved and perceived on anything from a World Cup race ski to yer bum onna bin bag as la Folie Douce kicks you out.
Looking at your stats you should be well capable of driving the Völkls, you just need the skills to do so.
Hire and school and once you learn to feel the bite and carve of your hire skis, start to use the Tigers.
Have a great winter Toofy Grin
snow conditions
 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@Old Fartbag, I fear we are going well off piste into the quite esoteric (and I will, of course, freely admit that I am no trained instructor, merely an ardent amateur*)

I'm going to partially disagree with your 'merkin. Have a look here,
http://youtube.com/v/n4hDi6Dzrqs, Stenmark free skiing (sort of). He is clearly carving much of his turns - admittedly with an up unweight and pivot to initiate - but thems the limitations of the equipment of the time. He's not going particularly fast.

I suspect your american's comments are possibly framed in the context of racing and need to be considered as such. Although even in that context, there's no way special slalom skiers were not carving the "important" elements of their turns - they'd scrape off too much speed - the Stenmark sequence after the one I posted demonstrates nicely.

* in the French sense
snow conditions
 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@Angelovski, you’ll see in the Equipment Reviews section that Spyderjon has some ex-demo skis for sale at really good prices. I’d suggest buying a cheap pair of entry level piste skis and using them for a season or until you’ve got your confidence and skills back up. Then you should be able to sell them for at least half what you paid. The Dynastar SpeedZone 10 would be a good choice, or one of the cheaper SpeedZone 4x4 options.
ski holidays
 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@under a new name, (Apologies to the OP for the detour)

It's taken from an article explaining the "new" ski shape and how to start carving for the uninitiated - so not in the context of racing.

I agreed with your description of Skarving - which is what Stenmark is doing. You cannot do a "pure" carve that starts with a pivot....even if the important element is.

It was the "limits of the equipment" that led to my pedantic argument in the first place.

I think we are really in agreement and are just arguing for the sake of it. Toofy Grin
snow report



Terms and conditions  Privacy Policy