 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Not sure how it works for Whistler other than all the US and international visitors not coming should reduce demand somewhat.
For other Vail areas e.g. Colorado Front Range sounds like it could be a rolling clusterfock. 7 days guaranteed on a rolling basis plus extra days booked on a space available each week sounds ok until you realise the crapshoot it represents for each and every weekend of the season. For anyone visiting internationally 7 days guaranteed out of maybe a 2 week trip is plenty reason not to bother.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
Not sure how it works for Whistler other than all the US and international visitors not coming should reduce demand somewhat.
... For anyone visiting internationally 7 days guaranteed out of maybe a 2 week trip is plenty reason not to bother. |
I think UK visitors are probably not the target demographic for this, and as you say it won't really work for them.
Although if you can afford to "hang in a hover" at a decent Whistler hotel for half of the time you're there, then you could probably afford something less boring. Like go to a normal town and ride the local hill where this stuff isn't relevant. And you can quarantine at a much lower day rate.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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This system was implemented in Australia. The user experience was less than great, or even satisfactory. It usually took hours, many hours, online to get to the actual reservation pages. When you got there, you could find the days you wanted sold out. Too bad if you already had accom booked. If you were really unlucky, your session dropped out after sitting there for hours. It was impossible to get through on the phone or get a response to your email.
Maybe they have now sorted out these issues for the American season, but with volumes orders of magnitude greater than Australia, it might be a forlorn hope.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Cheers dabber for the heads up. Half booked for whistler mid term. Works out cheaper with a season pass for me but this puts in a new twist. Interesting how this works with lessons some of my group will be in lesons for more than 7 days.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| philwig wrote: |
I think UK visitors are probably not the target demographic for this, and as you say it won't really work for them.
Although if you can afford to "hang in a hover" at a decent Whistler hotel for half of the time you're there, then you could probably afford something less boring. Like go to a normal town and ride the local hill where this stuff isn't relevant. And you can quarantine at a much lower day rate. |
Yep - just seems that they are writing off the international tourist market entirely or effectively restricting them to 7 days. Which is kinda odd when your brand is international resorts but then they have far bigger problems with locals, weekend warriors and even staff. How do you even get people to work for low wages when the main attraction - unlimited skiing on your days off- isn't there?
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@WASHOUT, no worries , how does your booking work if the two week quarantine at both ends is still in place , have you got cancellation cover , not sure when the travel restrictions will be lifted or if at all this year , but does look like you can still buy a relevant epic pass with covid cover that allows for full refund if unable to use it or travel
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| ... Which is kinda odd when your brand is international resorts but then they have far bigger problems with locals, weekend warriors and even staff.... |
Well the international market is broadly not going to happen - the Canadian border is closed, for example. So that's not really much of a loss.
I think their "international play" is the marketing end of what is really a real-estate/ resort company business. I mean, a lot of Americans probably buy their passes because of the ability to use them at different (similarly owned) places, some of which may be "out of state", but the key thing is to sell season passes, so you get people in the resorts. All of which you own. "Travel" is a sales tool, but you don't make money on it specifically. Hence that's less of an issue than one may think, if you can keep customers buying season passes, which has been the great marketing success of the epic thing.
And of course Americans are no doubt the driving force behind their business, and they are still dying in large numbers.
Not travelling to scary foreign places where you can't shoot people in the back may be more attractive to them than one may think.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@dabber if the quarantine is still the same then the holiday will be a no go, only out for 14 days. I have a 30 day 100% refund cancellation (hilton) policy on my hotel, whatever BA's policy is (I am using airmiles for buisness class) and the epic pass refund policy.
It's going to be a interesting season.
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@philwig, but Whistler sure as hell want destination tourists and not just Lower Mainland daytrippers or weekend warriors. Same goes for the Vails, Breckrenridges, Heavenlys etc. Just maybe not this year as its all about managing their losses in a way which doesn't give them real negative PR equity (like being a COVID hotspot).
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Last year the general opinon in whistler that they where against the day tripper customer as they where spending very little money when in the resort ie taking there own pack lunch etc.
Wouldn't be a deal breaker for me to loose a few days in Whistler while on a 14 day break. Plenty of other activities that dont need a lift pass there....
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| ... just seems that they are writing off the international tourist market entirely or effectively restricting them to 7 days. Which is kinda odd when your brand is international resorts but then .. |
My point was that as this type of travel is illegal in Canada, they are not writing it off as it simply can't legally be done.
Avoiding the sunk cost fallacy is actually common, not at all odd. For example Last Frontier
are offering locals 50% discount, with the catch that if the border opens up those bets are off.
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I'm currently in the US (stuck here really as if I come visit the UK/Europe I won't be allowed back in) and I bought an epic pass this year. They do have a free coverage but the T&Cs are incredibly complicated...
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You know it makes sense.
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I have 2 weeks booked in Whistler from 28th November. My daughter lives there and have already had August and April trips there cancelled. I was looking to book for Jan / Feb and April also, but the ability to book 7 days at time is a ball-ache.
The Epic Cancellation policy will only pay out if your country of permanent residency bans travel to that country for 30 days, of which 7 must be in the "Core Season", or if Canada does the same. Canada seems to be issuing restriction updates stretching a month at a time at least
£1250 for two of us (with discount code from last year) for the Epic Passes is a lot of outlay for trips which I still think are more than likely to be cancelled, whilst being unsure how easy it is to get a refund.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Will need to study the small print of the cancellation policy of the epic pass but planning to buying the next couple of days.
We are booked for 15 days midterm and the ability to lock out 7 days is not the end of the world for us. Some of our group will be in ski school for the week which you automatically get on the lift for that day without using up the 7 day in advance. I personally will prob do a 3 day max 4 lesson and maybe look for a day ski touring and a catski day. Only leaving a few days to book the one week indvance.
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Poster: A snowHead
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But all rumour seems to suggest that Canada are willing to keep up a no entry policy until a vaccine is developed not least because they want to keep a lid on the risk from their southern neighbours.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| But all rumour seems to suggest that Canada are willing to keep up a no entry policy until a vaccine is developed not least because they want to keep a lid on the risk from their southern neighbours. |
That seems to be the consensus in Canada, with the health of Canadians being prioritized over everything else.
One bit I do not understand though is "Pass holders can make as many week-of reservations during the season as your pass type and availability allow. Week-of reservations are in addition to your Priority Reservation Days. As you use your Priority Reservation Days, you can book new ones, holding up to seven at any time, or as many as your pass type allows."
Does this mean you can book two weeks of reservations if there is availability, and this doesn't count towards your 7 days? Surely (initially until that add some rule) this will lead to people block booking a week as a "just in case"
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Checking those prices of North America passes... damn it's cheap to ski in Europe 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Dougy Giro I read it as I can book 7 days for anytime in the season (end of November I can book from) then I can book more days 7 days in advance of each ski days.
@AndreSilva not so sure on that. I am over €300 for a 6 day pass now in the big European resorts, I will be £640 for a season pass for whistler. I plan to use my north american season pass for 15 ski days in whistler this season plus 7 days skiing in 3v france and 5 days 4v in Switzerland.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| ulmerhutte wrote: |
This system was implemented in Australia. The user experience was less than great, or even satisfactory. It usually took hours, many hours, online to get to the actual reservation pages. When you got there, you could find the days you wanted sold out. Too bad if you already had accom booked. If you were really unlucky, your session dropped out after sitting there for hours. It was impossible to get through on the phone or get a response to your email.
Maybe they have now sorted out these issues for the American season, but with volumes orders of magnitude greater than Australia, it might be a forlorn hope. |
I appreciate that this is an unprecedented year, but I do get the feeling that this move to "EPIC Pass" takes away the impulse element of what many people in the Southern states have with skiing. I haven't lived in Australia for years, but I recall plenty of times there being a dump of snow on a Thursday/Friday and agreeing with mates that we'd head to Hotham or Falls for a weekend and leave either Friday night or early Saturday morning. I remember once after a dump of fresh snow in September a mate and I made an impulse decision at around 9pm to go and just did it.
I can see why in the US it would be good, but in Victoria with 3 main ski resorts, having 2 of them taken out or restricted by the EPIC pass does little to encourage the spontaneous ski trip.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| WASHOUT wrote: |
@Dougy Giro I read it as I can book 7 days for anytime in the season (end of November I can book from) then I can book more days 7 days in advance of each ski days.
@AndreSilva not so sure on that. I am over €300 for a 6 day pass now in the big European resorts, I will be £640 for a season pass for whistler. I plan to use my north american season pass for 15 ski days in whistler this season plus 7 days skiing in 3v france and 5 days 4v in Switzerland. |
I managed 29 days on my Epic Pass last season in Whistler, Vail, Breck, Beaver Creek and Keystone, so at £24 a day I got good value from it 
I would have had 11 more had my April trip not been cancelled.
I am skint now, but its was worth it!
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| FrediKanoute wrote: |
| ulmerhutte wrote: |
This system was implemented in Australia. The user experience was less than great, or even satisfactory. It usually took hours, many hours, online to get to the actual reservation pages. When you got there, you could find the days you wanted sold out. Too bad if you already had accom booked. If you were really unlucky, your session dropped out after sitting there for hours. It was impossible to get through on the phone or get a response to your email.
Maybe they have now sorted out these issues for the American season, but with volumes orders of magnitude greater than Australia, it might be a forlorn hope. |
I appreciate that this is an unprecedented year, but I do get the feeling that this move to "EPIC Pass" takes away the impulse element of what many people in the Southern states have with skiing. I haven't lived in Australia for years, but I recall plenty of times there being a dump of snow on a Thursday/Friday and agreeing with mates that we'd head to Hotham or Falls for a weekend and leave either Friday night or early Saturday morning. I remember once after a dump of fresh snow in September a mate and I made an impulse decision at around 9pm to go and just did it.
I can see why in the US it would be good, but in Victoria with 3 main ski resorts, having 2 of them taken out or restricted by the EPIC pass does little to encourage the spontaneous ski trip. |
Given the American mindset of, "I'm just going to do whatever I feel like." A reservation system is the only plausible way to control the unruly American. Yes, it will take out the spontaneity of just hoping on a plane or in the car and traveling to a Epic ski resort to chase powder. But, to quote Trump. "It is what it is."
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| But all rumour seems to suggest that Canada are willing to keep up a no entry policy until a vaccine is developed not least because they want to keep a lid on the risk from their southern neighbours. |
Yes, there doesn't seem to be any big push to open up the borders - in fact probably the opposite... except maybe in Whistler. But even the touristy spots seem to be pushing the "local" market (where local is Canadian) I suspect this is what Whistler will be relying on too, rather than relying on the borders opening (then closing, then opening, the resort closing,...)
More importantly (though borders are technically a federal issue), BC's Chief medical officer, who has been very unwavering generally in her approach to COVID, made the above point clear - no vaccine probably means no international tourism.
I recall reading somewhere that opening up to some places like Australia/New Zealand may be more acceptable, except that would really wee wee off the Americans, so will stay shut to everywhere!
Not sure how many WB/Epic season passes they will sell locally - I have one, but only because my kids are in training programs at Whistler (which may or may not happen). If it wasn't for that I may well have skipped it altogether this year.
I live only 100km away and I think this is a risky bet - seems optimistic to say the least (amongst other descriptions!) if you live on a different continent, and still have plans/hopes to make it to Whistler this season.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Dougy Giro wrote: |
| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| But all rumour seems to suggest that Canada are willing to keep up a no entry policy until a vaccine is developed not least because they want to keep a lid on the risk from their southern neighbours. |
That seems to be the consensus in Canada, with the health of Canadians being prioritized over everything else.
One bit I do not understand though is "Pass holders can make as many week-of reservations during the season as your pass type and availability allow. Week-of reservations are in addition to your Priority Reservation Days. As you use your Priority Reservation Days, you can book new ones, holding up to seven at any time, or as many as your pass type allows."
Does this mean you can book two weeks of reservations if there is availability, and this doesn't count towards your 7 days? Surely (initially until that add some rule) this will lead to people block booking a week as a "just in case" |
It means you book 7 priority days then as you use them up you get to renew them. The "week of" reservations are separate. Not much use if you are going for 14 consecutive days but makes sense if you are say a weekend warrior or a multi weeker. Book 7 days covering your first 3 intended weekends. Then as you use the days up immediately book for the weekend 3 weeks ahead etc. Similarly - book initially for 7 days in December , as you use them book your January trip, use them book Feb etc.
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| stuarth wrote: |
| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| But all rumour seems to suggest that Canada are willing to keep up a no entry policy until a vaccine is developed not least because they want to keep a lid on the risk from their southern neighbours. |
Yes, there doesn't seem to be any big push to open up the borders - in fact probably the opposite... except maybe in Whistler. But even the touristy spots seem to be pushing the "local" market (where local is Canadian) I suspect this is what Whistler will be relying on too, rather than relying on the borders opening (then closing, then opening, the resort closing,...)
More importantly (though borders are technically a federal issue), BC's Chief medical officer, who has been very unwavering generally in her approach to COVID, made the above point clear - no vaccine probably means no international tourism.
I recall reading somewhere that opening up to some places like Australia/New Zealand may be more acceptable, except that would really wee wee off the Americans, so will stay shut to everywhere!
Not sure how many WB/Epic season passes they will sell locally - I have one, but only because my kids are in training programs at Whistler (which may or may not happen). If it wasn't for that I may well have skipped it altogether this year.
I live only 100km away and I think this is a risky bet - seems optimistic to say the least (amongst other descriptions!) if you live on a different continent, and still have plans/hopes to make it to Whistler this season. |
I have a property purchase to complete in November and a upcoming birth of first grandchild in February both in Squamish , so have enough real reason to travel but with two week full quarantine at both ends and also the chance that travel will just get more restricted , my best plan is now to come out for the whole season , not worried about the reservation system if that's the case and always plan on touring on the busy weekends and holidays , main worry is the highly likely upturn in cases in early winter and the whole thing gets shut down again , but in that case epic will refund or add credit again for 2021/22
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@stuarth, is Canada banning entry from all countries?
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You know it makes sense.
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@stuarth, cheers for that , yep will have everything in place , not simple but think it will be ok , we are the only support for them and with sons guiding work hopefully keeping him busy in February should be ok , but as you say it’s understandably hard to sort
Going to be a strange old winter for sure
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FAQ
. I'm sure you're already on it, but might be worth making sure you have anything necessary organized in advance (unless you are a Canadian Citizen or PR of course).