 Poster: A snowHead
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Family holiday, kids 19 and 21. They can ski but they havent been for a while and are more beginner level. Husband and I are total mileage junkies.
Any other recommendations than Val Thorens?
We would like (ideally)
Decent snow for that early in season
Ski in ski out
Decent sized apartments (not rabbit hutches/alcoves/sofa beds/bunk beds) so may book for 6 rather than 4.
Stuff (non skiing) for the kids if they can’t be arsed. Will swimming pools/leisure be open Covid?
We went to tignes last year and won’t be going back in a hurry (Have done it loads but the routes in to Val were way to hard for my kids). Did La tania Year before and loved it (thinking of a second trip just husband and I in jan)
Budget is not a huge concern, but value for money is. I don’t want to spend insane money. And must be able to cancel easily - Covid.
Am I looking for a purple
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Lucywuk, I'd book a crossing and decide on a place sometime around 7th Dec. I would have said Val d'isere but I was there the opening weekend in November when there was no snow till the new year. Other years there has been snow in abundance but why book now? I go to Austria now. Again no need to book anything yet.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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My knowledge is mainly Tignes, so only of passing interest if you've ruled it out. However, FWIW...
The "Decent snow" bit is what would concern me most. We went to ValT several times in the mid noughties in that week, and more often than not the links into Meribel were closed, La Masse wasn't open and you couldn't get much lower down the valley than Les Men. Obviously much of it is snow dependent, but we came to the conclusion that the lift companies weren't too bothered about the links being open until the Christmas week.
We changed to Tignes and have been every year since 2010. The links to Val Diz and down to Val Claret/Le Lac have been open every year from 2 weeks before Xmas since then. The Brev/Boisses section isn't normally open until the XMAS week though, and nor are some of the outlying drag lifts. However, as long as Palafour, Double M, Bellvarde and Solaise are open (which they always have been) the ski area is still huge. From memory we've only failed to get to Eidelweiss twice, once because of not enough snow, and once because of too much snow (lifts were closed due to high winds that day).
Have also been to La Plagne that week a couple of times. Both were good snow years, but the area still wasn't fully open.
So what I'm saying is study the proposed resort opening date, and then consider their snow record in that week, and if you can find out when any key lifts have started turning in previous years.
For decent apartments I'd look at Village Montana or any of the CGH developments, rather than P&V or Maeva. It'll be a fair bit more money though. And be careful where you are in resort. In early season not all the lifts may be running, so an apartment that may be ski-in, ski-out during peak season may rely on a lift that isn't running before XMAS week. For instance CGH Telemark in Tignes relies on Chaudannes and/or Paquis, neither of which has started much before Xmas week for the past 2 seasons. Similarly any place in Brev/Boisses, or St Martin-de-Bellville (ValT)
Dunno if that's purple or violet though 
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Lots of resorts will be closed that week, regardless of snow. Personally I'd give Tignes another go but be prepared to use busses rather than make the kids miserable.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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If the 'kids' are 19 and 21 tell them to fend for themselves and choose somewhere that suits you and your husband. Surely the time has come to break free and indulge yourselves.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Lucywuk wrote: |
| the routes in to Val were way to hard for my kids) |
I assume you mean the OK/Orange, Face & Santons which are not easy but all can be avoided by downloading in a lift, leaving you with a great area to ski with the kids.
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| DCG wrote: |
| Lucywuk wrote: |
| the routes in to Val were way to hard for my kids) |
I assume you mean the OK/Orange, Face & Santons which are not easy but all can be avoided by downloading in a lift, leaving you with a great area to ski with the kids. |
Ok and Orange are often closed to mere mortals that week due to preparations for the Womens Premiere Neige racing at the weekend. You can usually still get down the green/blue alternatives behind the Follie though. Satans/Stantons usually isn't open (and if it is it ain't much fun), leaving just Epaulle de Charvet, which is not intermediate friendly. The bottom half of Face can also be closed for the Mens Slalom, and even if it is open the slalom preparation makes the lower half a tad icy - to say the least. Yes you can download and/or get the bus, but that's not what I want to do when I'm out for the day trying to get somewhere for lunch.
So all in all I can see why Lucywuk didn't enjoy getting over to ValDiz that week.
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Judwin good points about the FIS races being on then, but it doesn't stop you using the lifts does it?
| Judwin wrote: |
Yes you can download and/or get the bus, but that's not what I want to do when I'm out for the day trying to get somewhere for lunch.
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Beg to differ. The OP explained that the runs were too hard for her kids, so downloading is a perfectly sensible option if it is available, which it is in Val D'Isere. If you download on the Olympique then no need for a bus, just straight up Solaise
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Tignes more than ValTho, as mentioned above.
Austria should be perfect for that week.
I am thinking of Obergurgl Solden
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| DCG wrote: |
Judwin good points about the FIS races being on then, but it doesn't stop you using the lifts does it?
| Judwin wrote: |
Yes you can download and/or get the bus, but that's not what I want to do when I'm out for the day trying to get somewhere for lunch.
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Beg to differ. The OP explained that the runs were too hard for her kids, so downloading is a perfectly sensible option if it is available, which it is in Val D'Isere. If you download on the Olympique then no need for a bus, just straight up Solaise |
Each to their own, but the OP described herself as "Husband and I are total mileage junkies". I doubt that means spending time on lifts when a piste option is (normally) available, but only she knows that for sure. And getting down to the valley again from up top of Solaise would also probably involve a download too. None of the runs down are beginer friendly. And then at the end of the day its Trollies, Download or Bus to get back to LeLac (if that's where you're staying)
And yes the FIS races can stop you using the lifts. Marmottes is usually closed whilst race training is happening, meaning a long detour via Borsat and Fountain Froide to get up Belvarde in order to get the Gondola down. And Bellvarde Express in Val Diz, although there is only one reason for using that IMV - Peau de Vache.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Judwin wrote: |
| And yes the FIS races can stop you using the lifts. |
May be even worse this winter, there will be World Cup races in Val d'Isere on three consecutive weekends in December.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Judwin wrote: |
| We went to ValT several times in the mid noughties in that week, and more often than not the links into Meribel were closed, La Masse wasn't open and you couldn't get much lower down the valley than Les Men. Obviously much of it is snow dependent, but we came to the conclusion that the lift companies weren't too bothered about the links being open until the Christmas week. |
This is not the case anymore. In the noughties the links were closed usually due to lack of snow cover on exposed areas and/or non wind-resistant lifts. There is now snow-making just about everywhere and the lifts have been upgraded but it's impossible for them to be resistant to the highest winds.
The 3V links are scheduled to open on the same day which they start selling 3V passes from which this year is December 5th. The "full" 3V area is open from December 12th but only the major lifts will run and some quieter pistes will be closed until the following week. It doesn't matter, the area is very quiet that week and you can get straight on a lift anywhere. In the last couple of years, the biggest issue with going to VT in December has not been too little snow but too much, along with high winds which have stopped the pisteurs being able to do enough avalanche control to open the links. That cycle can't repeat for ever though, this year could be very good.
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Fab info above. Thanks, particularly about the racing in Val D’I. And when the lifts open. Obviously we won’t be booking accommodation until we know how the snow is, so probs not until a week before. But getting ideas of resorts to look at.
Yes we could let the kids fend for themselves and we will when we go again in January, but we fancy a family holiday. So want to take their needs into account so we all have a good relaxed holiday.
Don’t really want to rely on downloading via a lift, as they are all bubbles, and Covid. And tbh we don’t go to a resort to download on a bubble. We used to love Val D’I but last year I decided I do not want to do la Face ever again, we did every run (well nearly) last year and know that the kids (ok adult kids) will freak. My husband got wiped out badly on plan/piste M, santons was shut and it was such a drag getting across to Tignes.
Les Arcs/la plagne is another option, how is that early season??
Self drive is important, so thought Austria would be a no, how bad is it??
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You know it makes sense.
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| Lucywuk wrote: |
| Les Arcs/la plagne is another option, how is that early season?? |
The Vanoise Express doesn't usually open until the Saturday before Xmas so you'd have to choose between Les Arcs or La Plagne for Dec 12th.
If you're concerned about high winds/links in VT, why not go to Courchevel 1650/1850? Pre Xmas is one of the few weeks that are sensibly priced in 1850 - nearly everything's open, it's relatively sheltered and the snow's always good. It doesn't get wind scoured anything like VT does if the wind's up and if the sun's out you can go to Meribel. The Saulire cable car and the Saulire Express out of Meribel are often the last two lifts to shut when the wind's up so you should have no issue getting around. 1650 is intermediate heaven but if you can get ski in/out in 1850 at a sensible price it's a great experience.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Lucywuk wrote: |
Self drive is important, so thought Austria would be a no, how bad is it?? |
I had the same thought when I read the suggestion about Obergurgl, but looked it up and surprisingly the drive time isn't that much different - 12 vs 13 hours.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Lucywuk, When I drive to Austria from Chelmsford it is a good 1.5 days drive so I stay over about 4 hours from my destination
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@holidayloverxx and that’s perfect as I am from colchester!! I did start looking it up last night and saw it’s an extra hour or so. I know husband would love Austria, it’s his fave country and we’ve never skied there.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Lucywuk, Apartments are generally bigger than in France - not so much the bunks in a corner. Excellent value for money. Can't advise on anywhere that is ski in ski out with shed load of mileage. Where I am you stay in the valley (I'm about 300mtrs from the main lift in Flachau) and go to different ski areas every day, although there are hotels (apartments?) on the mountain too. That said you can ski from Flachau, get the Glink across to Wagrain and ski over to St Johann and back - but probs not that far that early. Also the Flachau/Flachauwinkl/Zauchensee cable car link should be open this season. The lift pass is for the whole of the Ski Amade; your kids should be fine almost anywhere there. There is the Therme swimming pool about 2km away in Altenmarkt
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@holidayloverxx thanks for that. It maybe good for a jan trip as we will also have a car.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Lucywuk, perfect in Jan - that's when I go. 2nd week is usually the Ladies night race in Flachau so great atmosphere but accommodation gets booked up...in normal times.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Lucywuk wrote: |
| Any other recommendations than Val Thorens? |
Les Menuires is a better place to stay purely IMO. As mentioned La Plagne or Les Arcs would be good options but you will not be able to ski both which would be a shame
| Lucywuk wrote: |
| Decent snow for that early in season |
Well now you know that "decent snow" is subjective and 12th December could be anything. But if you go to somewhere like 3V/La Plagne/Tignes it will be open and there will be skiing.
| Lucywuk wrote: |
| Decent sized apartments (not rabbit hutches/alcoves/sofa beds/bunk beds) so may book for 6 rather than 4. |
That would be wise.
| Lucywuk wrote: |
| Stuff (non skiing) for the kids if they can’t be arsed. Will swimming pools/leisure be open Covid? |
Things could be a bit limited both because of Covid and because it's early season.
| Lucywuk wrote: |
| Budget is not a huge concern, but value for money is. I don’t want to spend insane money. And must be able to cancel easily - Covid. |
Eurotunnel have introduced a new free refund fare, which is more expensive obviously but would provide peace of mind on that front. Apartments leave it until last minute as there will be availability that week. Same for lift pass. Value for money? Well expenditure is pretty much set, it just depends on how many pistes are open. There will be some but weather will dictate how many.
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Outside the box, Grandvalira make an effort to have snow cover by early December in time for their big holiday weekend.
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