 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Don't think you can call anyone 'red' these days... 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Dave of the Marmottes,
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| mountainaddict wrote: |
| Don't think you can call anyone 'red' these days... |
Not even communists?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Fair point, well made! 
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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| mountainaddict wrote: |
| Don't think you can call anyone 'red' these days... |
Didn't mean any slur myself - think they are trying to do the right thing. Will have to peel a couple of stickers off the odd ski or perhaps mash up
Squaw Valley Alpine Meadows = Weaponised VW Qualms
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"We recognize that when the resort was named in 1949, there was no intent whatsoever to be derogatory or offensive—it was just a reference to the name of the valley. Similarly, when our guests and community members say the name today, they are not doing so with an intention to be racist or sexist. However, the reality is the times change, societal norms evolve and we learn things we didn’t previously know. Over the years, more and more has been learned about the word “squaw.” It has been the subject of extensive research and discussion. There is now insurmountable evidence, dating back to the early 1800s, that the word “squaw” has long been used as a derogatory and dehumanizing reference to a Native American woman."
I always just assumed it was named after the sounds birds make.
If a word has been used in a non-derogatory way by all for years and you have to do "extensive" research to find it has previously been used as a slur is it really that offensive? Of course I will leave it to the natives to decide, but I've seen in Canada often these things are offensive to a few white people from the city and of no importance to the actual community. Changing a name is of little benefit if you are still going to screw over the indigenous communities in other ways.
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| Quote: |
Changing a name is of little benefit if you are still going to screw over the indigenous communities in other ways.
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Quite right. Mere symbolism .. it’s the age we’re in, it seems.
Any fan of westerns would know about the use of “squaw”.
We all heard thick/aggressive/drunk Irishman* jokes in school; I’m glad we’ve moved on, unlike many others.
(*no, not just about Thornyhill)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| boarder2020 wrote: |
If a word has been used in a non-derogatory way by all for years and you have to do "extensive" research to find it has previously been used as a slur is it really that offensive? Of course I will leave it to the natives to decide, but I've seen in Canada often these things are offensive to a few white people from the city and of no importance to the actual community. Changing a name is of little benefit if you are still going to screw over the indigenous communities in other ways. |
I'd guess when Alex Cushing established the ski area he was thinking of a cute Pocahontas style name and a reference to the valley's past as a good camping/ grazingarea rather than the "n****r slag" meaning. I mean there is edgy marketing but...
But in a fit of self awareness in the wake of BLM they actually asked local tribes whether they considered it offensive and got an answer so....what's the decent human thing to be doing? Continue flaunting the name in the name of tradition?
The Native American community has been screwed over in so many ways through history. A bit of rebranding seems a small price to pay to remove an small element of it.
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Not a very tasteful thread title at all, paradoxically racist even ?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Ah yes - somehow suspected this would be a lightning rod for the PC gawn mad brigade - did you know Christmas has been banned etc etc.
Thread title changed because paradoxically for once the great contrarian did have a slight point.
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@Poogle, Three year old dog whistle story from The Sun...
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You know it makes sense.
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@Dave of the Marmottes,
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Thread title changed
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Good move
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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they actually asked local tribes
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This is the key. The opinions of woke millennials or angry gammons thousands of miles away doesn't matter.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| adithorp wrote: |
| @Poogle, Three year old dog whistle story from The Sun... |
It's three years old, so that means we don't need to worry about it; just like we don't need to worry about slavery because that was even more than three years ago I think...
And yes, it's a "dog whistle" because it contains facts and evidence.
Plus of course, it was in The Sun, so it just can't be true! I really must start watching CNN and the GaGa to get my facts.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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... it contains facts and evidence
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Are you talking about Christmas right?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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... mmm ... the term Gammons with racist undertones because it refers in particular to the colour of a white anglo saxon’s red flushed face, on a thread titled Red Lives Matter which disparagingly refers to the indigenous people of America that is using a play on words from Black Lives Matter an anti racist movement ... mmm indeed ... 
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@rayscoops, your call that it was disparagement. I clearly didn't intend it as such - just a way of linking the subject matter to why it has happened. But on reflection I did see that you and others had a point so changed it but by all means keep banging on about it.
Anyway back on topic the best suggestion on TGR was to realign it with a satire on white privilege and rename the place Karen Basin, though of course you can have a pop at misogyny in that if you like so maybe Chad Bro Peaks.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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like we don't need to worry about slavery because that was even more than three years ago I think...
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The people that laid my drive were later prosecuted for slavery.....
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The same thing happened to one of Phoenix's mountains the other year - now it's called Piestewa Peak.
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... often these things are offensive to a few white people from the city and of no importance to the actual community.
... Changing a name is of little benefit if you are still going to screw over the indigenous communities in other ways. |
No, not in the case of Phoenix, or this case. It's a matter of a few clicks to check these facts.
Do you have any evidence that those in favour of inoffensive names (including the indigenous communities)
want to "screw over" their own communities? It seems more likely that right-wing types would object to inoffensive names.
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| philwig wrote: |
The same thing happened to one of Phoenix's mountains the other year - now it's called Piestewa Peak.
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... often these things are offensive to a few white people from the city and of no importance to the actual community.
... Changing a name is of little benefit if you are still going to screw over the indigenous communities in other ways. |
No, not in the case of Phoenix, or this case. It's a matter of a few clicks to check these facts.
Do you have any evidence that those in favour of inoffensive names (including the indigenous communities)
want to "screw over" their own communities? It seems more likely that right-wing types would object to inoffensive names. |
Indeed, from Wikipedia: Other historic names (for Piestewa Peak) included Squaw T*t Mountain.
Time for a change I agree.
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Do you have any evidence that those in favour of inoffensive names (including the indigenous communities)
want to "screw over" their own communities? It seems more likely that right-wing types would object to inoffensive names.
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I don't know the situation so well in USA, but have a better understanding of what is happening in Canada with the first Nations people there, and am guessing there are some comparisons. In Canada thousands of first nation homes don't have access to clean drinking water, suicide rates are up to 11x higher than for non-Indigenous people, thousands of first nation girls are currently missing. I could continue to list all the metrics that show just how much worse life is for the first Nations.
Is renaming a ski resort going to really help? No. Sure you can argue it starts a conversation/raises awareness/is a first step etc. but the reality is it's not going to improve things for these people.
I see it all the time in Canada. Lots of projects by very well meaning people to tackle what in the grand scheme of things are really trivial issues. They get to feel better about themselves that they have done something good, and the government get to tick some boxes. That is what I mean when I say changing a name is of little benefit if you are still going to screw over the community. Let's tackle the real issues here and not be diverted by trivial things.
I accept that squaw can't solve the problem, they are just a ski resort trying to do their bit. It's just frustrating when you see all the rich white skiers virtue signalling about how woke they are changing a name while the indigenous people are living in awful conditions.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@boarder2020, I have to agree. I would be far more impressed if the lift company added say a $25 dollar surcharge to each lift ticket to help the Native American Community; and then added a good percentage of their profit to that cause as well.
Or even better, why not just return the land to its original owners? But that's never going to happen is it?
Anything else is just virtue-signalling. Although yes, at the very, very bare minimum they are right to change the name.
But they have changed the name to "Piestewa Peak" in honour of a Native American woman who died illegally invading a foreign country — Iraq! And being part of an invasion force that resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of "Native Iraqis".
As they say: "You couldn't make it up".
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But they have changed the name to "Piestewa Peak" in honour of a Native American woman who died illegally invading a foreign country — Iraq! And being part of an invasion force that resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of "Native Iraqis".
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Yep it was terrible choice imo for that exact reason. As well it was totally unnecessary to give it a new name, why not just go back to the old name - Vainom Do'ag, which was the Pima name far before the others.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| boarder2020 wrote: |
... Let's tackle the real issues here and not be diverted by trivial things. ...
It's just frustrating when you see all the rich white skiers virtue signalling about how woke they are changing a name while the indigenous people are living in awful conditions. |
No one's claiming that stopping using racist terms will eliminate racism or poverty now any more than it has in the past.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Can't say I'm a huge fan of the "If you don't have the concluding words for a book don't bother starting writing it" theory. Always strikes me as an easy way to kick the can forever which is convenient for some of its proponents who like things just the way they are. I suspect if e.g. Croydon were named "Shell-suited Slagville" in "tribute" to its indigenous population that name wouldn't last too long regardless of the fact that it was impossible to provide everyone a gentrified standard of living and a good job.
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You know it makes sense.
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But if the people in Croydon were living without drinking water, had a suicide rate 11x higher than average etc. I hope we wouldn't be celebrating the fact we renamed their town something less offensive. We'd instead be saying look this situation is really bad let's try and fix it. This isn't about university education and top paying jobs it's clean drinking water!
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Always strikes me as an easy way to kick the can forever which is convenient for some of its proponents who like things just the way they are
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I want things to change for the Native American community. Will changing the name of a ski resort change anything for them? Not really. How much will squaw spend on hiring a pr team to rebrand and advertise the ski resort and could all that money be better spent actually improving lives? I suspect so.
It's a bit different but look at the gay community. We solved the fundamental issues regarding inequality (perhaps not 100% but we are getting there), to the point where the group is empowered enough to reclaim former slurs. Fixing the issues are key (i.e. legalising same sex marriage).
It's all a bit like someone's house being on fire and instead of helping we are all gathered around congratulating someone repairing a broken fence panel in their garden.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Wee bit unfair.
His presence racing at the pinnacle of motorsport is probably more helpful than sitting on his erse watching it on the TV.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I see Hamilton is not prepared to put his money where his mouth is
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The same guy that went vegan to reduce his co2 footprint while also flying his dogs around by private jet. Which ironically is not a bad analogy to squaw changing its name to help native Americans.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Which ironically is not a bad analogy to squaw changing its name to help native Americans.
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I don't think this is the intention. It isn't to 'help' them, rather just taking action to help stop offending them. Baby steps, but in the right direction. Just like when everyone was made aware that 'eskimo' is inacceptable.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| boarder2020 wrote: |
But if the people in Croydon were living without drinking water, had a suicide rate 11x higher than average etc. I hope we wouldn't be celebrating the fact we renamed their town something less offensive. We'd instead be saying look this situation is really bad let's try and fix it. This isn't about university education and top paying jobs it's clean drinking water!
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Always strikes me as an easy way to kick the can forever which is convenient for some of its proponents who like things just the way they are
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I want things to change for the Native American community. Will changing the name of a ski resort change anything for them? Not really. How much will squaw spend on hiring a pr team to rebrand and advertise the ski resort and could all that money be better spent actually improving lives? I suspect so.
It's a bit different but look at the gay community. We solved the fundamental issues regarding inequality (perhaps not 100% but we are getting there), to the point where the group is empowered enough to reclaim former slurs. Fixing the issues are key (i.e. legalising same sex marriage).
It's all a bit like someone's house being on fire and instead of helping we are all gathered around congratulating someone repairing a broken fence panel in their garden. |
maybe organisations do what they can? Changing the name of a ski resport isn't massive but it's a ski resort, what else can it do?
What are you doing for Native Americans other than posting on the internet disparaging the efforts of others?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
What are you doing for Native Americans other than posting on the internet disparaging the efforts of others?
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Bit harsh.
He’s not slaughtering them which, to be fair, was culturally appropriate and perfectly acceptable not so long ago. #MAGA
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Arno wrote: |
| ... What are you doing for Native Americans other than posting on the internet ... |
Oh, I refuse to use rude names to describe minorities. Next question?
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| Quote: |
Just like when everyone was made aware that 'eskimo' is inacceptable.
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You make my point for me. What did that achieve? Currently the Inuit have around 11x higher suicide rate than non-Indigenous Canadians. The focus on what name we used was a complete distraction from the massive issues we should have focused on.
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What are you doing for Native Americans other than posting on the internet disparaging the efforts of others?
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Actually, I have been lucky to spend a lot of time in Canada and have made some good friends that are first Nations. I have got involved with a couple of their projects. Nothing big, but it's gave me a little more insight than the average European.
I did work in Africa for a while which is where I first started seeing terrible projects. I have sympathy to the westerners/organisations because their projects were for the most part well intentioned. Unfortunately they were just wasting money on projects that were not helping the local people or fixing the underlying issues. I saw the same in Afghanistan.
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Changing the name of a ski resport isn't massive but it's a ski resort, what else can it do?
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You criticise me (just a regular person) for not doing anything. Yet a ski resort owned by a private equity firm turning over millions of dollars per year can't be expected to do anything? How about giving a percentage of each lift pass to first Nations charities? Or offering first Nations a free day skiing? Or even just a charitable donation? These things would all help more than changing the name.
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You make my point for me. What did that achieve?
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Awareness and understanding of the common usage of a derogatory term. Nothing more nothing less. For sure, a shed load more needs to be done, but that doesn’t mean you have to belittle tip toes in the right direction.
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I'm sure the Inuit will take their suffering with joy knowing that people in Europe they will never meet won't call them an Eskimo.
Don't get me wrong these things (like renaming squaw) need to be done. There are just much more pressing concerns that need to be focused on and will have much more effect on improving lives of those people. Like I said before, the house is on fire and you are worried about repairing a broken fence panel.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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What’s wrong with “Eskimo”?
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FAQ
