 Poster: A snowHead
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Is it me but are ski holidays going up in price by a ridiculous amount these days?
I normally do serious budget skiing on my own a couple of times in a year plus one real expensive ski holiday with my wife. Yes, she is a lady of leisure  To give you an example, last 4 years with my wife we have been to espace killy (Tignes, VC and Val). I can remember paying just over £2000 for a week, half board and passes thrown in. Now it's getting closer to £3000.
Just doing basic searches for same hotels, flights and even using Skicrystal as a quick benchmark, i would have thought things would have been a lot cheaper on offer for next year. Maybe resorts are selling out due to many people missing this years skiing. It's not like Covid is going to be gone by next year as well. So i would have thought some places like in France would not be selling expensive holidays so soon and if they are selling then at a reduced fee due to restrictions possibly.
Would love to know your thoughts on the cost of holidays for 2021?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Ultra, you ain't seen nothing yet.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Just wait until the "brexit bonus" kicks in 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Presumably the economic majesty of Brexit will only strengthen the pound, so making all these foreign jaunts cheap, should one wish to visit those countries still beleaguered by stuff like economic cooperation, trading, and all that stuff.
You ain't seen nothing yet sounds about right.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I am going to say the opposite I feel my holidays are getting cheaper.
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I never really look at prices this far out but that's because there's usually 2 of us and can go at reasonably short notice and outside of school holidays - the tour ops heavily discount every year usually between 4-6 weeks before departure and occasionally the last few days before if flexible enough.
All bets are off though next season as who knows what will happen ref covid/economy over the coming months/years and i would of thought the tour ops will be offering a reduced schedule so there could be a less discounting if they get it right or there could be a glut.
When is it that you are planning your main ski trip?
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£300 Lift pass
£200 Flight
£80 Ski hire/carriage
£700 B+B
£200 Meals
£120 Wine
£1600 per head there
£1k a week for a high class package feels optimistic given you've already clocked £580 before you've walked in the door.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Lots of business lost chunks of both the winter & summer tourist seasons. They have to claw it back somehow. They still have bills to pay!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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I'm a big budget ski trip fan. My GF is a teacher, so we're unfortunately confined to the expensive school holiday periods. We always get a self catering airbnb to keep costs down, drive via the ferry and take our own equipment. Next year, our trip to Valloire (if we're able to go!) is set to cost around £550-600 each all in for accommodation (already booked), lift pass and transport w/ skis + snowboard for 7 nights (assuming ferry prices aren't wildly different to what we usually pay). We got a good Easter deal on a pretty big apartment, so that price will come down if we can convince up to 4 other people to come.
We'll usually go out for dinner for 3 or 4 of those nights, adding another ~£100-150 each, depending how fancy we're feeling. Lunches are a packed baguette affair or leisurely lunch back at the apartment (we always go ski in/out when we can), so doesn't add a huge amount on top.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
£300 Lift pass
£200 Flight
£80 Ski hire/carriage
£700 B+B
£200 Meals
£120 Wine
£1600 per head there
£1k a week for a high class package feels optimistic given you've already clocked £580 before you've walked in the door. |
A decent chalet deal or a nice HB hotel i've found quite common for £500 - £600 the last few years through the tour ops going outside of the school holidays (which the OP has said can do) - that includes flights,transfers and HB accommodation (free wine too if in a chalet) so a sub £1000 holiday shouldn't be written off even factoring in lift passes and lunches.
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| Quote: |
I can remember paying just over £2000 for a week, half board and passes thrown in. Now it's getting closer to £3000.
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Gulp - I'm now starting to realise just how much owning my own apartment is saving me:
Drive down for £500 split beween 3 or 4 of us. No ski transport costs, season lift pass 650 euros (I got a third of it back last sason) for 4 weeks skiing, Food and drink from the Super U in Bourg, a bit more than at home on food a bit less on drink. Some meals out in the evening, perhaps 100 euros in total each, a plat du jour for lunch at about 14 euros and that's it.
Last year we managed a 10 day trip for £150 each not including food, which I buy anyway
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You know it makes sense.
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Maybe my idea of a ski holiday has changed in the last 15 years which distorts my outlook on the cost of a ski holiday. My first holiday was a full board package to the big shiny hotel in the center (1st holiday was the strass in mayhrhofen) in peak season with inghams. Think flights, transfers and digs where almost approx £1000 per person sharing a room with a mate. I could spend same again on apre and we also used to go out for a few meals as the hotel food was pretty poor so pushing £3k for a week. Young and foolish and tbh i didnt actually ski a lot then! Now I prefer going off season (resort quiet) better flights and jump on the train or bus to the resort. I prefer a small locally owned b&b in a good location and eat out every night in restaurants but hitting the lifts pretty early.
So my ski holidays are costing me a lot less now!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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I think the gap between luxury and budget skiing holiday costs is increasing. Budget trips can still be reasonably affordable. Based on the last few holidays, the absolute cheapest (total for 2) for a week is about:
Flights & baggage £150
Car hire & petrol £200
Accommodation £200
Ski pass £375
Ski hire £75
= £1000, or £500 per head.
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Poster: A snowHead
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If your willing to put in the leg work and research then luxury can still be had. If your tied to school holidays and like the big french resorts then your going to pay for it!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Flights and accommodation for 2021 seem about the same. Probably the other add-ons will bump up.
Oh and skiing is not a budget pastime
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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If you can hold out for a late deal, you're laughing.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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My budget for last season in canada
£335 per month accom
£575 lift pass
£460 flights
£50 transfers
Around £5 per day food (supermarket bought and self cooked).
So about £2550 for 3 months. (I didn't completely stick to that budget, had a few meals out and things, but comfortably under £3k for 3 months skiing in BC. This year would be slightly cheaper as they have taken an extra 10% off lift passes for those of us that had passes last year as the resort closed early.
Friends got a half board chalet deal in tignes for around £850 (flights, accom, half-board, passes, ski carriage).
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| johnE wrote: |
| Quote: |
I can remember paying just over £2000 for a week, half board and passes thrown in. Now it's getting closer to £3000.
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Gulp - I'm now starting to realise just how much owning my own apartment is saving me:
Drive down for £500 split beween 3 or 4 of us. No ski transport costs, season lift pass 650 euros (I got a third of it back last sason) for 4 weeks skiing, Food and drink from the Super U in Bourg, a bit more than at home on food a bit less on drink. Some meals out in the evening, perhaps 100 euros in total each, a plat du jour for lunch at about 14 euros and that's it.
Last year we managed a 10 day trip for £150 each not including food, which I buy anyway |
I'm with you, if you factor in new year, half term, Easter , 4 cheeky weekends & then there are the long flexible summers, it actually sounds a bargain
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I think one has to accept that this is what is happening at the top end. Hotels are closing and being knocked down or converted into apartments, especially in the middish market, so supply has reduced. New hotels are at the luxury end. There is still plenty of money out there for a high end experience, or at least the hotel proprietors seem to think there still is. Whether post covid that will prove to be the case is anyone's guess. So demand reasonably constant, supply reduced = higher prices. At least my basic economics taught me that.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| johnE wrote: |
| Quote: |
I can remember paying just over £2000 for a week, half board and passes thrown in. Now it's getting closer to £3000.
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Gulp - I'm now starting to realise just how much owning my own apartment is saving me |
How much did you pay for your apartment and what is the opportunity cost that, which should be offset against your cheap holiday?
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I don’t see opportunity cost as much of a factor, it’s more the annual running costs. A 2 bed apt would be anywhere from 3k to 6k per year. Things like service charge 1-2k, taxes 1k, insurance, utility bills 1k, snow clearing, gardening, general maintenance, long term fund for roof etc and financing if mortgaged.
Or just ignore all that, move there, buy some skins and ski for free for the rest of your life.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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The same sized room in Le Panoramic Flaine cost c£400 more for February 2021 over February 2020. We paid this time as we wanted to go back (that was always the plan) but hope to secure more cost effective rooms for 2022.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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We would almost certainly have reduced our rates for next year as the continentals just don't pay as much as the UK/US do (did?) ...
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| polo wrote: |
I don’t see opportunity cost as much of a factor, it’s more the annual running costs. A 2 bed apt would be anywhere from 3k to 6k per year. Things like service charge 1-2k, taxes 1k, insurance, utility bills 1k, snow clearing, gardening, general maintenance, long term fund for roof etc and financing if mortgaged.
Or just ignore all that, move there, buy some skins and ski for free for the rest of your life. |
That is all part of what I meant by opportunity cost, but add in £200k earning a bit of interest as a minimum, or £200k invested and it would probably alone pay for the ski holiday. Then, god forbid, you have to sell it at a loss (including fees of transactions) because of Brexit then the alternative of the price of a ski holiday is perhaps quite small.
I have looked at owning such property and unless you rent it out to cover costs then you are really paying for the convenience.
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You know it makes sense.
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@under a new name, and they certainly don’t want to pay for towels, or linen, or anything else that they can pack into their car!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
How much did you pay for your apartment and what is the opportunity cost that, which should be offset against your cheap holiday?
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We paid £60,000 and have no idea what an "opportunity cost" is. So at the quoted hotel cost of £3,000 per person per week. That is just over a year's worth of holidays for 4 people going 4 weeks a year, not counting summers.
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A 2 bed apt would be anywhere from 3k to 6k per year. Things like service charge 1-2k, taxes 1k, insurance, utility bills 1k, snow clearing, gardening, general maintenance, long term fund for roof etc and financing if mortgaged.
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Our apartment has 6 and at a push 7 beds and the running cost come in at about 4000 euros (my brand new laptop comes with a keyboard dollar symbol but no euro symbol - weird). Most of the expense comes from service charge and tax. Electricity consumption and insurance are pretty small. Letting it out when we are not using it covers about 2/3rds of that.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@snowdave, while that is indeed funny, over 15 years we’ve had maybe 4 double duvets, 20 pillows and uncountable teaspoons “removed”.
I think we ran at around 40 teaspoons a year.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The PreBirthdayBash is good value. A week in a lakeside four star hotel for £532, with breakfast, evening meal and lift pass included. Flights £69 return with EasyJet, including ski bags. Shared transfers. Food and drinks on the mountain is pretty cheap in the Dolomites. All in all, seems very reasonable to me.
But I’ll admit, I’ve never been anywhere other than Snowheads Bash’s, so have nothing to compare against. 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| countryman wrote: |
| Whether post covid that will prove to be the case is anyone's guess. So demand reasonably constant, supply reduced = higher prices. At least my basic economics taught me that. |
anyone at the luxury end of the market is going to find the next 2 years very difficult: no chinese, americans or russians, if you do any conferences that's also out. A lot of the big luxury hotels where I have been have been mothballed this summer. With Covid making a big comeback across Europe I can't see the business is going to be there this ski season either.
as for jacking up prices to recover confinement losses, good luck with that, if markets worked like that they'd have already jacked up prices. Hotels have tried that in France and ended up with no customers.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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My Crystal holiday from last year (half board Hotel/Flights - didn't check extras ) is £100 more than last year ; 8% increase. No doubt it will be cheaper as 2021 approaches....
===== edit ====
I did notice that they are offering very few discounts for next year (eg - 2 for 1 ski pass ; buy 1 ski pass get another for 1/2 price.)
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Ultra, I wouldnt base any price point using UK tour operators as a base line indicator, we are in turbulent waters and imo they aren't going to be there in 2 years time anyway so it's an irrelevance. I can't believe that the chalet model in France is sustainable, unless groups can fill the whole chalet, I for one wouldn't want to spend my holidays with a bunch of potential virus positive people I dont know, and tbph the thought of 12-14 people who I only know reasonably well in any event isn't one i'm that bothered about - all the been there, done that, blah blah stuff for me is a turn off. When i've skied all day last thing I want is to come back, sit down and listen to the hero, the i've been there done that-er, and the downhill racer for an hour as I drink my beer.
French hotels in ski resorts are notoriously expensive, and don't provide great service imv, so for me the appartment model, booked direct, and self drive is the most likely route going forwards for high French resorts, that said we choose nowadays after many years skiing in Savoie, to go to Tyrol, Austria - better in all aspects regards skiing, and accommodation/ food better. But without wanting to open up the whole argument of FR v AUT i'd suggest forgetting tour operators, do more research on line and book direct, and yes prices are only going one way and likely a marked increase next 2-3 years. If, as increasingly likely no-deal, we'll then truly be the poor man of Europe in many respects, and the £ v € rate will crash below parity imv and skiing may become an elitist sport and out of reach for many, I sincerely hope not.
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@under a new name, That sounds pretty tame. In 1.5 seasons of renting I had 2 coffee machines, countless crockery/glasses (and guests seemed to think the solution was to nick glasses from the local bar to replace my breakages with!), various sheets and duvet covers, a fire extinguisher, a bath mat, and, similarly lots of teaspoons. They also flooded the washing machine and broke the Dyson.
I don't see DIY prices (transport,lift passes, accommodation etc.) looking any higher for next year, so whether the operators can expand their margins to recoup this year's pain remains to be seen.
However, on a nearer term basis, I've just booked a week in Portugal in the school hols for about half what I expected to pay. The cheapest deals were BA flights for 4 and a decent apartment for <£1k. If the ski season ends up looking similar, then late bookers will have a great time of it.
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One thing is certain …. skier numbers overall will be significantly down. The "shape" of a ski holiday will rapidly evolve to ensure that resorts stay open, including hotels, accommodations, restaurants, bars, and shops. However, the way in which these aspects of a ski holiday remain open will change with social distancing, client number restrictions, and local/regional limits. The lift companies will need to ensure limited numbers in "enclosed uplifts" so may have to restrict skier numbers, and I think that skiers may just avoid bottleneck lifts and bubble/cable cars. Apres ski such as KK/Mooser/Folie-douche type bars may not appear as we have known them. But as for costs the breakdown is still pretty similar …….
Flights …. BA Avios 9000 miles per return LHR to ZRH/INN/MIL
Car Hire …. £200 to include fuel/Insurance
Lift Pass at around £250 (Arlberg Wedel Week Prices)
Accommodation looks to be currently around £500/£600 for decent apartment per week. (Tends to become more reasonable nearer the time)
Have our on ski gear (goes free on BA flights as one of our bags)
Food costs per person at around £250 (lunches/meals in/out)
Incidental drinks on the mountain/Apres £150
All comes in at under £1000 per person all-in for a pretty decent weeks holiday in the Arlberg. Possibly could go up if we end up choosing 4* Hotel as opposed to renting apartment.
Could be a lot cheaper if Last Minute Bargains crop up for Easter 2021.
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| Quote: |
@snowdave, while that is indeed funny, over 15 years we’ve had maybe 4 double duvets, 20 pillows and uncountable teaspoons “removed”.
I think we ran at around 40 teaspoons a year.
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Oddly we don't appear to have lost anything, except a steak knife appeared to change shape once. We do seem to aquire things however such as a pair of ladies walking boots, a number of small toys and almost every year an extra set of bedding.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@rayscoops, for 200k "invested" elsewhere there's no guarantee you'd make a nice safe return each year, I mean look at the FTSE100, still at the same level it was in 1998.
But you're right about the transaction costs that need to be factored in, especially in France where it's around 7.5% to buy and 5% to sell. So need to make about 13% just to break even.
@johnE, I still don't think you are comparing like with like......a hotel for 3k per week for 2 people including food and ski pass, vs 6-7 people in a presumably small apt. What am I missing?
Renting it out to cover the running costs helps of course, but should also consider the inconvenience, agency cut, wear and tear, higher utility bills, cleaning, and of course taxes.
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FAQ
