 Poster: A snowHead
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Cancer Research UK is encouraging people to protect against skin cancer when on the slopes this winter.
They have issued a reminder that snow reflects around 85 per cent of the sun's rays. UV intensity increases by 4% to 5% every 300m. At the top of Les Grands Montets, above Argentiere near Chamonix, the sun's UV rays are around 40 to 50 per cent more intense than at sea level.
They have specific advice for avoiding sunburn and skin cancer risk, in this report on ifyouski.com.
Further advice on Cancer Research UK's SunSmart site.
Any comments, or further advice on this?
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Wed 26-10-05 23:46; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I have suffered severe sunburn, to the extent that my whole face was swollen up and peeling, just got carried away on a great day's skiing and forgot about suncream. Please nobody else learn my lesson the hard way.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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One of my friends is a dermatologist, and he's been known to hand out suncream to people as they sit on the terraces baking.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Also don't underestimate the difference in UV intensity between early season and late season. The first time I skied in April I got terribly sunburnt because I applied the same strength suncream as I normally did when skiing in January.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Couldn't agree more with rob@rar.org.uk, - I skied in Les Arcs in Jan and did my first ever spring skiing trip there in April and the intensity of the sun in April really surprised me. The article on ifyouski.com mentions an SPF of 15 or more and certainly skiing in April and applying every 2 hours, SPF 15 was not enough - not for my forehead or Mrs Bungle's conk anyway!!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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mjg, been there done that, I now carry spf 25 or 30 and reapply as required during the day, don't forget to use good sunglasses to prevent eye damage as well
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D G Orf, most of my face is now covered by goggles/helmet and the rest has so much suncream that I tend to come home whiter than usual. I'll never forget how bad that instance was, I thought I had done some permanent damage but was lucky? to retain my looks!
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David Goldsmith, Its well known that u/v is filtered by the atmosphere, and sports on reflective surfaces like skiing or sailing increase the sunlight reaching the skin, so it stands to reason that a high alstitude sport on a reflective surface will convey a much higher risk. We are seeing ever increasing numbers of Melanoma, Basal cell cancers and pre-malignant solar keratoses in primary care. How much specifically relates to hight altitude exposure I am not sure. Many of my patients have had tropical postings or very sensitive skin types, and many of them are living to very great ages in which to develop their tumours.
Its also worth knowing that for some people tablets can increase the sensitivity of the skin to sun. Tetracycline (often used for acne) or Sulfonamide (water infections)antibiotics, Anti-inflammatory drugs such as Ibuprofen, some antisickness drugs such as prochlorperazine, herbal remedies like St John's Wort, thiazide dieuretics (taken by some people for blood pressure) are well known sensitisers of the skin, meaning a shorter u/v exposure for a given degree of skin redness and inflammation (sunburn).
Never use less than factor 30, and as technology advances some higher factors are wearable without creating the appearance of an Aussie spin bowler, wea a hat that gives protection to ears and nose, and keep your clothes on. rob@rar.org.uk, Especially in January...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Martin Nicholas, very interesting.
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This year at Les Arcs in April as always I used a factor 30 or 35 cream - but didn't do the underneath of my nostrils - no joke - the reflected UV got to them after one sunny day - very sore 
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Scarpa, even if you remember to do the whole nose, snot wiping removes the cream fast so reapply at regular intervals. Don't forget the tops of ears if you are sensitive. Again your hat / sweatband might wipe the cream off.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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You can get burnt just as bad in White Out conditions. I allways put sunscreen/protection regardless of the conditions.
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rob@rar.org.uk, at the beginning of the season, the sun isn't overhead and so the rays have to travel through a larger distance of atmosphere compared to the end of the season, so dissapating some of the UV energy.
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You know it makes sense.
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On the first day I completely forgot to put cream on in Sauze D'oulx this year in March. After 2 hours of sunshine I remembered, but it was alas too late 
My entire face spent the next 3 days ouzing a clear yellow liquid. The results can be seen on the snowMedia zone.
Never again!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Kramer wrote: |
| rob@rar.org.uk, at the beginning of the season, the sun isn't overhead and so the rays have to travel through a larger distance of atmosphere compared to the end of the season, so dissapating some of the UV energy. |
I understand the theory, it's just when I was faced with a glorious bluebird day late in the season my desire to get going stopped my brain from functioning properly! I just wacked on the usual suncream and headed for the lifts. By the end of the day it looked like I'd spent a day at Chernobyl (never has a smilie been more appropriate!!)
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Poster: A snowHead
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Got caught out one February day (La Tania I think) when using SF25, panda eyes or what, now (being on the fair skinned side) I always use SF60 (only look like a Aussie spin bowler for a short time).
Never forget your lips, use a high SF lip balm.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Quote: |
On the first day I completely forgot to put cream on
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I shall scream the next time I hear this kind of idiocy. So you want melanoma???? Really???? So you want to suffer a long and awful cancer which is very likely to kill you? It's not nice, and it does happen.
And it is preventable.
Every skier MUST force themselves to apply decent sunBLOCK (by which I mean nothing less than 30SPF, and ideally anything higher you can get your mits on - I use 60SPF on the slopes). For skiers the habit must become as natural and habitual as strapping on your boots.
And then re-apply every other hour to replace the cover that's worn off/wiped off/persperated off.
You might think this is extremism - you're wrong.
"Forgetting" is a shite explanation for putting yourself at risk of cancer and possible death. What a lot of people fail to understand is that ANY tanning at all is in fact damaged skin. And ALL tanned ski has an increased risk of developing melanoma. End of.
While we're at it, I shall also scream if I hear sunblock referred to as "suntan lotion" - you're NOT trying to get a tan, you're trying to prevent it for god's sake.
Sorry. Rant over.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Manda, I do apologise for forgetting to do something on the first day. Especially an activity I only partake in once a year. Funnily enough it wasn't intentional.
I actually had factor 50 SUNBLOCK in my pocket... I don't go skiing to get a sun tan.
I'm normally the one in our group telling everyone to get covered up so I got quite alot of derision for this.
I do not expect to get bawled out by someone for a mistake I made on the first days skiing. Why is it your problem?
You don't know me at all. I'm the one who on a summer holiday who spends all day in the shade wearing High factors/ T-shirts.
Forgetting is a good explanation. OK, maybe you never forget things, but I have a dreadful short term memory.
What I do not expect when entering a light hearted discussion about silly things I have done is to get a dressing down from someone totally unconnected with me.
I shall certainly think twice before posting in this forum again.
Good bye
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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stanton,
| Quote: |
| You can get burnt just as bad in White Out conditions. |
Please explain how I will get equally burnt regardless of the amount of cloud cover (and hence UV).
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Manda, you clearly owe Paul Holland an apology.
In the meantime, why not be big now and tell us your real name - unless it's your game plan to insult people from the comfort of a pseudonym?
Whatever, gratuitous insults are detrimental to the interests of this community.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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xyzpaul, I thought that cloud cover doesn't block UV light to any significant amount compared to the normal atmosphere.
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Manda, let (s)he who has never sinned throw the first stone...
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Rev. Kramer
An alternative truth: "let (s)he who has never sunned throw the first stone"
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Paul Holland, you've made a couple of hundred posts here (like me) so you must know that some contributors occasionally say stupid things or have opinions that aren't always justified by their experience.....don't let one nasty post put you off  s
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Plake, you've got a point, but the ball remains well and truly in Manda's court for flaming another contributor for no reason at all.
Funnily enough your post count (227) is identical to Paul Holland's. Manda's is 1016.
I don't think anyone has a problem with people writing frankly in snowHeads, but I would have thought a thousand posts was enough to get the hang of how we get by around here.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Plake, Well put, this thread was turning into the EOSB at that point
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Paul Holland, at what point did I point and rant at you in particular? Don't take it personally, I'm ranting at everyone!
For the record I appologise to no-one for ranting about this topic, the more ranting on this point, the better!
Little (badly kept) secret - I grew up in NZ which, along with Australia, has one of the highest rate of skin cancer incidents in the world. My friends have had suspicious moles cut out (yeah, bring on the jokes), and I've met people who've later died from skin cancer. It's not pretty.
Like everyone else my age in NZ I spent every summer literally during my childhood sunburnt until the slip/slop/slap campaigns of the 1980s. I'm of Euro decent so my skin is unable to tolerate sun conditions in the same way that indigenous Kiwis can. And like every other fair-skinned Kiwi of my generation I live in fear that any one of my multiple freckles is quietly turning cancerous - every time I go home I nip into the beach-side caravans (yeah, they have them back home) for a dodgy-mole check.
I've had a few decades to adjust to the Aids-like fear you definately should have towards sun-exposure. This end of the planet is only just waking up to the very real problem of sun-induced skin cancer, and it's more so now that more people are skiing than ever before.
Welcome to my world.
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You know it makes sense.
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Plake, I won't really let it put me off. I'm just being sensitive. It's just frustrating because I would never post a message like that on a subject like this.
I do agree with the principle of what she is saying, you shouldn't get sunburned, but accidents happen.
Oh well. At least flaming doesn't happen too often on this board.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Manda, I think you are making your point in slightly too confrontational a way, personally I think it takes a bit of courage to admit to such a stupid mistake as forgetting to use suncream, and I should imagine it is not one that anybody is likely to repeat. You appear to put aids in the same bracket as "sun exposure" - I'll say no more.
P.S. Interesting that we can say sh**te but not a**e.
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Poster: A snowHead
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mjg, both AIDS and skin cancer can and do kill. The risk of AIDS and melanoma are both reduced by protecting oneself. The risk of both are increased by failing to protect oneself. I see a sensible link between the fear and care one should have towards both.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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If you still think I'm overreacting, have a look at this: http://www.ehj-online.com/archive/2000/june2005/june1.html
"The statistics look stark. Potentially fatal malignant melanomas have been the fastest growing form of cancer in the UK over the last 10 years. There are 65,000 new skin cancer cases per annum, although the true figure is probably double this, and 2,000 people die unnecessarily each year."
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Quote: |
Paul Holland, at what point did I point and rant at you in particular? Don't take it personally, I'm ranting at everyone!
For the record I appologise to no-one for ranting about this topic, the more ranting on this point, the better!
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The quote you took from my message and then said you would scream the next time you hear this kind of idiocy.
As I said above, of course I agree that you shouldn't get sunburnt. I made a mistake. Simple as that. I was mortified when I realised I'd forgotten to put the block on. I spent the rest of the week wearing a helmet, goggles and a thick balaclava despite the 20+ temperatures. It wasn't much fun.
I am well aware of the dangers of skin cancer. It amazed me on holiday in Greece this year the number of people who chose to lie in the sun with no protection at all.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Manda, I forgot to say (  ), I watched the skin on my face extremely carefully for a few months after getting back. In fact I still do.
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| Manda wrote: |
| Like everyone else my age in NZ I spent every summer literally during my childhood sunburnt until the slip/slop/slap campaigns of the 1980s. |
Hope that you haven't done any permanent damage to your skin from getting burnt so often during your childhood.
Did the slip/slop/slap campaign adopt a rude and hectoring tone, or did it try some other approach when trying to persuade people to be sensible with UV levels?
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Thu 27-10-05 16:57; edited 1 time in total
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| Quote: |
both AIDS and skin cancer can and do kill. The risk of AIDS and melanoma are both reduced by protecting oneself. The risk of both are increased by failing to protect oneself
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Obviously, but whilst it only takes one mistake to contract Aids, getting sunburnt once is pretty unlikely to cause skin cancer. Manda you appear to have a morbid fear of sunlight, but actually your skin needs it to convert to vitamin D so that your body can regulate it's calcium levels.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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rob@rar.org.uk, both. The official NZ site is: http://www.sunsmart.co.nz/ Australia has: http://www.sunsmart.com.au/
And the UK has a similar site now: http://cancerresearchuk.org/sunsmart/
In the same way you guys are attuned to the risks of AIDS, Kiwis and Australians have been attuned to the risks of sun exposure for a while now. We hector each other about it. By comparison you lot (sorry, British) are still waking up to the risks of sun exposure.
mjg, ah no. That's where you're mistaken. It can indeed take just one case of sunburn to kick off a malenoma. http://travel.howstuffworks.com/sunscreen3.htm
And while I appreciate I may "need" Vitamin D (BTW skin doesn't actually absorb Vit D from the sun - it's the UV rays from sunlight that trigger vitamin D synthesis in the skin) to help with calcium uptake, what's wrong with just ensuring I get enough calcium in the first place? Sunlight itself isn't necessary per se for adequate human function, donchaknow.
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Manda, vitamin D acts to regulate calcium, if you are deficient then you can suffer conditions like osteoporosis (your bones become brittle and prone to fracture), bone loss in menopausal women tends to occur in winter, when they are not exposed to sunlight. I think that is how it works, no doubt Kramer can set me right 
As for the link between sunburn and melanoma this article is interesting http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/308/6921/75
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FAQ
