 Poster: A snowHead
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This probably isn’t the best of the season but as a starter 1 week in 4* postwirt half board in soll for 550 on 7th March with crystal.
I’m interested In hearing what others managed
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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That’s impressive forgot to say it included flight and transfer
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Don't know but the £25.99 half term flights for next year has to be one of the best deals ever
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Jonny996, ....if you get to go
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Jonny996 wrote: |
| Don't know but the £25.99 half term flights for next year has to be one of the best deals ever |
That would be the 20/21 season.
Wrong thread.
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Over several years of DIY trips we've always been just short of the "holy grail" of <£500pp (based on 2 people) for a week including flights, accommodation, lift passes (in decent resorts), ski hire and car hire / fuel / tolls.
Against the odds (inflation, exchange rate etc.) we managed to whittle it down to an amazing £475pp this March, for the southern French Alps.
That would have been for the full week... alas, our trip was curtailed by coronavirus lockdown, meaning we had to buy alternative flights home, taking us back (well) over budget. Barring miraculous compensation from Ryanair, the magic £500 target remains to be broken, but we do now know it's possible!
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| Quote: |
| Over several years of DIY trips we've always been just short of the "holy grail" of <£500pp (based on 2 people) for a week including flights, accommodation, lift passes (in decent resorts), ski hire and car hire / fuel / tolls. |
Shouldn't be too hard is it?
For 4 years we managed half term all in, absolutely everything bar annual insurance, for £600 each. That was half terms in decent resorts like St Anton, Arabba etc.
£500 out of season excluding food, beer, souvenirs should be easy.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@TheGeneralist, I think it is hard (assuming you are a couple - for a family it would be easier - and it was in the last few years). Should also mention we usually aim for 7 or 8 days skiing - but even with 6 it's not an easy target.
I'm therefore impressed by your claim - even more so for the resorts you mention, at half term! Any chance of a breakdown of either your Arabba or St Anton holiday prices?
Even just a 6-day Arabba lift pass is £276 at half term. So £324 remaining for flights / baggage, accommodation, transfers / car hire incl. fuel & tolls, ski hire...
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Is there away of viewing a person's old threads? I think I did itemise the Wolkenstein trip costs on s thread somewhere ages ago.
The key thing on the Arabba trip was a ridiculous headline price of around 250 pp for flights and accommodation, coupled with free kids lift passes with adults lift passes. Can't recall the rest.
For the other Dollies trip we flew to Frankfurt for around £80 each...
For the St Anton trips we flew to MUC for around 100 each, then the other two times to Nuremberg with Ryanair for something silly like 60 each. 4 sets of skis just fitted in one bag.
Then train for four of us was around 100 euros or so.
Appartment in somewhere miles away Schann IIRC around 700 euros.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@TheGeneralist, a lot easier to keep costs down if you're a group of 4, especially if you're diluting the PP cost by not having to buy a lift pass for half the group. Doing a trip for 2 or 3 is very difficult to keep cost down to £500 when half of that goes on a lift pass.
Not exactly a sparkling deal but I was fairly chuffed that 2 weeks in Japan (9 days skiing on Hokkaido, 3 days in Tokyo) came to under £2,600pp for 2 people. That included flights, car hire, fuel, lift passes, accommodation, food/drink, public transport and sight seeing in Tokyo. Would be quite easy to spend a lot more or a lot less. Of course all this was (just about) pre-Covid so didn't get any benefit from that.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| TheGeneralist wrote: |
| Is there away of viewing a person's old threads? I think I did itemise the Wolkenstein trip costs on s thread somewhere ages ago. |
I searched for threads with "Wolkenstein" mentioned anywhere in the post and posted by you. Only found three threads, one of which was this one.
In one of the other two you said The year before we flew to Frankfurt then drove to Wolkenstein. That was a bit of a hassle, but again only around £2.5k for a family of four at half term. No further breakdown.
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| Quote: |
a lot easier to keep costs down if you're a group of 4,
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Not if that means you're restricted to half term it doesn't.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@TheGeneralist, I'll agree that half term introduces some more difficulties, but the £250pp you're saving on lift passes make that easier to deal with, plus accommodation is still easier. If you're travelling as 2 people you quite often end up getting a room for 4 and paying for empty beds.
Whatever time of year you're heading out it's easier to control costs across a group of 4 compared to a 2 or 3.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I wonder how many of the people who scrimp every penny on the cost of a holiday, putting an existential pressure on tourism providers, then proceed to spend the same again on alcohol.
At £500 pppw I can't imagine there's any margin for profit for tourism providers.
Perhaps a positive outcome of COVID19 is that the market will contract significantly and prices will become more realistic. But that's only positive for the providers who survive the crisis.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@TheGeneralist, thanks for looking back over your figures! I reckon you did get some pretty good deals, but it's not really comparing like with like. Firstly you're going as a family of 4 rather than 2 adults, secondly you took your own equipment (so you've already spent money on buying it in the first place) rather than hiring.
If you convert your St Anton trip to a 2 person holiday for example, you're already spent £800+ on accommodation and flights alone, so there's no way you'd get all the rest (lift passes, ski hire, transfers) for £100 each. The Arabba trip looks more promising, but even then I doubt you'd get under £500pp.
For 2 people DIY you generally need to hit the following targets to keep under £1000 (£500pp):
- Flights, baggage (for 2) £150
- Car hire, fuel, tolls £150
- Accommodation £200
- Ski pass (for 2) £400
- Ski hire (for 2) £100
Total £1000
It's a tall order - generally easy enough to keep some of the components under budget, but tricky to get them all within budget at the same time.
Here's what our breakdown would have been for March, had we not had Covid-19 issues:
- Flights, baggage (for 2) EDI-MRS £150
- Car hire, fuel, tolls £158
- Accommodation £169
- Ski pass (for 2) £365
- Ski hire (for 2) £67
Total £909
I'd be surprised if we can ever achieve that again on a DIY trip. I suppose it might be possible to beat that if you get very lucky with a last minute package.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Lift accessed bluebird powder in the Back Corries, Nevis Range on Friday 21 March 2020 for the princely sum of £20.50
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@queenie pretty please, I assume you're referring to me with the "scrimping every penny" / £500pp comments.
I get what you're saying. But if there are two similar apartments on offer for e.g. £200 and £500, and there aren't obvious issues with the cheaper one (e.g. bad reviews) surely most people would go for the former? It might be true that there's little profit for the £200 accommodation provider - but they chose to advertise the property for that price. It's not like I'm getting in contact with them and trying to haggle the price down. It also means we can currently afford 2 skiing holidays in a season rather than 1.
I would also argue that not everyone's idea of "scrimping every penny" is the same. For us, it's about getting value for money without compromising on the type of skiing we like. We don't particularly scrimp on the actual skiing part - otherwise we could get the price down even further by visiting a tiny resort with a £100/week lift pass, for example. We do also have minimum standards for accommodation, type of car hired etc.
If the market does indeed contract and prices rise after coronavirus, then of course we'll have to rethink the frequency of our trips, or our wider budgeting.
As for alcohol - we're not big drinkers and we'll typically buy a single bottle of wine at some point in the week. £5 or so then? Not quite as much as the holiday 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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We managed a full week so that's a big deal!
My diy is way out of that budget.
Cost was about £3k for three adults, this year, two bed s/c apartment in Flaine one night in Troyes.
I try to stay under 1k each! Ski hire and pass are usually over £300 each, euro tunnel £250, we use flexi+ back and tesco points on the way down. Fuel and tolls were around £300 and £145 Troy hotel was £75 per room, £56 parking in Flaine and apartment £850. £350 ish on supermarket food and some meals out.
All in all happy to pay that, well plus £134 interest on the 3k loan to pay of credit card!
I just feel lucky to have come back 1st Feb having had a great time.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| harrim51 wrote: |
| All in all happy to pay that, well plus £134 interest on the 3k loan to pay of credit card! |
Don't take this the wrong way but that is criminally bad financial planning.
How/why can be using flexi+ and having meals out when you are having to borrow money to finance the trip?
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£38 for easyjet flights
around £70 to take my own board & all the clothing I needed
2600 Euro for 16 person /8 bedroom Chalet with all the mod cons, hot tub, sauna, etc. (Only 10 of us ended up going this year, so 260euro each)
Lift pass was around 220 euro
& our minibuses hire + fuel & tolls around 100 euro per person
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@Layne, modern way, chuck it on credit. People are happy to pay a premium to have something now rather than cut back or save and wait for next year.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@denfinella, not a dig at anyone in particular. But living in a ski area and knowing many tourism providers here I can see how they are forced to compete on price, and that their profit margins are minimal. Many of them won't survive the current crisis, given the early end to the winter season and the likelihood of a very reduced summer season.
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| queenie pretty please wrote: |
I wonder how many of the people who scrimp every penny on the cost of a holiday, putting an existential pressure on tourism providers, then proceed to spend the same again on alcohol.
At £500 pppw I can't imagine there's any margin for profit for tourism providers.
Perhaps a positive outcome of COVID19 is that the market will contract significantly and prices will become more realistic. But that's only positive for the providers who survive the crisis. |
They have a margin, but its still cheaper to DIY a trip than use a tour operator.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| queenie pretty please wrote: |
| @denfinella, not a dig at anyone in particular. But living in a ski area and knowing many tourism providers here I can see how they are forced to compete on price, and that their profit margins are minimal. Many of them won't survive the current crisis, given the early end to the winter season and the likelihood of a very reduced summer season. |
Tourist providers in resort are not only forced to compete on price with each other, but also private providers as well as resort to resort.
Equally, some people will blow all their budget on a single trip. Others will try to go away 2 maybe 3 times a season.
Every resort has a value due to its different draw for the tourists, etc.
Our group holiday for example - price is king. It's more about being together as a group & the bigger the group the better time we have, as its not all about skiing.
The other side of this coin, is that it must also be affordable to every person.
I try to get away for another trip besides that, where my budget is not constrained.
In the coming years, everyone is going to feel the squeeze. In the UK for example, we may well see tax & ni raises. So pushing prices up for a ski holiday by the tourism providers may actually be counterproductive if people have less disposable income & in turn meaning more empty rooms.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@queenie pretty please, there is a flip side in that many people wouldn't be able to go on a trip at all if the price went up. The last few years I've managed 3 trips a season, but if average cost went up by £100 then that would possibly be 2 trips. Of course if the providers aren't around to provide then that would become no trips, and that's where pricing is tricky to gauge.
I wouldn't say that I scrimp and save, I try to bring my trips in under the £1k mark all in (including pass, food, booze etc.) but I do try to keep budget fairly low.
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| queenie pretty please wrote: |
I wonder how many of the people who scrimp every penny on the cost of a holiday, putting an existential pressure on tourism providers, then proceed to spend the same again on alcohol.
At £500 pppw I can't imagine there's any margin for profit for tourism providers.
Perhaps a positive outcome of COVID19 is that the market will contract significantly and prices will become more realistic. But that's only positive for the providers who survive the crisis. |
Erm the alcohol money is being spent with more tourism providers....Perhaps the lesson is run a bar not a B&B!
I think the family owned/reinvested nature of many Austrian hotels/pensions etc is likely to see them more resilient than many businesses but that does depend on the international market opening up again.
And as others say the demand in any sort of sustained economic downturn is also likely to be severely reduced.
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You know it makes sense.
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Not sure what exactly counts as a "tourism provider".
A Tour Operator to me is someone who aggregates a bunch of services into a package. The more complex the "tour" the more they can add value in terms of knowledge and leg work. Going skiing can be quite complex if you are quite new to it and need to hire kit and take ski lessons. And/or if you require childcare. There is also the question of whether you see it as a "holiday" and want everything done for you. If you've been a few times and/or have simpler requirements then a TO can add less value - it can reach the point where they can add no value whatsoever.
If you do not use a TO you are dealing with service providers directly. They can still add value for that specific service.
Virtually everybody in any business has to compete on price. Constantly. It's not forced, it's a natural and intrinsic part of doing business. But in parallel they have to compete on service and value. Only a fool would believe that a holiday or a service is much cheaper than most of the others it will be equally good.
I think @queenie pretty please is suggesting that people who focus purely on price are bad for the tourism provider but I don't see how that can be so. Or maybe that more people are focusing on price. Ask yourself what will be the outcome in either scenario over a few years.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Quote: |
| I wonder how many of the people who scrimp every penny on the cost of a holiday, putting an existential pressure on tourism providers, then proceed to spend the same again on alcohol |
The fundamental points here are:
- 99% of people will, by nature, want to get their travel and accommodation for the best price they can. Surely only Russian oligarchs would take any different approach.
- The less someone spends on getting there and staying there, the more they will have left to spend on the other necessary holiday stuff like food and drink. So yes, some people may spend a lot on alcohol as a result. Their money, their choice.
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FAQ
