 Poster: A snowHead
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Firstly I am gutted for all the ski resorts and the people that work in them. This is just awful for everyone associated with businesses in the alps, I've met so many wonderful people during my times skiing and I can only hope we get through this together.
OK so onto the main topic, my family holiday has been cancelled for 29th March in France which was expected under the circumstances, however this is the information Club Med has provided:
France:
Following the latest recommendations from the French government, Club Med has decided to close all of its ski resorts in the French Alps until the end of the current ski season for 2020. The full amount paid will be credited back onto your Club Med Account which can be used on a future holiday for departures up until the 30th April 2021.
I'm quite concerned that Club Med could hold onto my money when clearly the company could collapse. If it were a few hundred pounds I'd write this off, however it is many thousands! Does anyone else have experience of refunds with club med from the recent Italian closures? At the moment there's bigger fish to fry, but I'd like to know a bit more about this? I know other operators have refunded.
Regards and stay safe.
Lossy...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Not with club Med but I booked a weeks accommodation plus lift passes with Ski Andorra in Pas De La Casa only last week. I received an e=mail at 1pm Friday to advise they were closing 6pm Friday night. They asked what I would like to do. I think they were looking for a 'i'll re book answer'? Anyway I asked for a full refund and it was in my bank the same evening. Now that was good service in the circumstances.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@mrlossyman, tell them you want a refund. If they refuse claim it on your insurance
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Don’t know if it helps in your cases but read on another thread about this Section 75 for purchases on Credit Cards. Didn’t know about it until this morning but I feel mightily relieved having read about it to use as a last resort.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Fortunately I have insurance which was booked long before the holiday was. I would hope though that Club Med would refund like all other reputable companies. Clearly keeping in the money in there account is a ploy to changing my booking, but who knows what the prices and circumstances will be next year. I'd like to hear someone who had booked Italy as they are likely to have gone through this situation by now.
Thanks for the replies...
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Dougie wrote: |
| Don’t know if it helps in your cases but read on another thread about this Section 75 for purchases on Credit Cards. Didn’t know about it until this morning but I feel mightily relieved having read about it to use as a last resort. |
We did pay by credit card but have paid the balance. Does this help?
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Yes it does give your credit card company a ring and they can put a credit in place if you then get it back through otherness they will take it back
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| pieman666 wrote: |
| Yes it does give your credit card company a ring and they can put a credit in place if you then get it back through otherness they will take it back |
Great, seems I now have three avenues to explore!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@mrlossyman, Better than pierre et vacances, they are stating as of this morning if they close their residences you can get a credit to be used by mid november this year 2020
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| Zorrac wrote: |
| @mrlossyman, Better than pierre et vacances, they are stating as of this morning if they close their residences you can get a credit to be used by mid november this year 2020 |
That's really bad, these companies need to remember that they will need their customers next year..
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Zorrac wrote: |
| @mrlossyman, Better than pierre et vacances, they are stating as of this morning if they close their residences you can get a credit to be used by mid november this year 2020 |
That's really bad, these companies need to remember that they will need their customers next year..
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Maybe by next year, the only “customer” they’ll have are those with “credits”
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Our Club Med trip to Plagne 2100 has also been cancelled. Should have been driving down through France now. I also got the same email regarding a refund credit onto my Club Med account. I paid for the trip on my Visa debit card - not sure where that leaves me with regards to getting the money actually back from Club Med. When I booked the trip I was insured but that came up for renewal in January and I changed insurance providers at that time
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You know it makes sense.
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You may still be covered under section 75 with a debit card worth taking to your bank to find out.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Debit cards now have a system called 'chargeback' which is a voluntary system the banks put in place. It works in a similar way to section 75 but just not protected by law in the same way.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@sno trax, thanks didn't realise it was different
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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We have something booked with Piere et Vacances at Easter, I would not mind if it was like the club med policy credit until april 2021, but its not
The cancellation section of our insurance policy, so called travel plus has this exclusion, "we will not pay if 5: Any loss directly or indirectly arising from any government’s regulations control or act, bankruptcy, liquidation, error, omission or default of any travel agency, tour operator, public transport carrierand/or other provider of any service forming part of the bookedtrip.
So claiming on insurance is out, and I don't particularly want to go in the summer...........................grrrr 
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| mrlossyman wrote: |
| ........I would hope though that Club Med would refund like all other reputable companies...... |
Club Med are under no obligation to refund you. That is why you have holiday insurnance. You might feel that morally they should do but under the circumstances if they refunded eveyone then there's probably a good chance that that would be the end of Club Med, and many of the other operators both large and small.
For the vast majority of businesses in the winter sports market the receipts for the last couple of months of the season are the 'profit months' as everything earned until then is required to pay all of the fixed costs/overheads for the season so with the trade now curtailed early, and without notice, then for most it'll just be a battle for survival.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@spyderjon,
| Quote: |
then for most it'll just be a battle for survival
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This.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Why would you want all these businesses to go bust? Claim on your insurance it's the whole point of it and the insurance companies get fat every year - finally there is a point to them. So use them.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Wait there, club med will also have their own insurance policy. I should not need to claim on mine and have an increased premium for years to come.
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I don't get it.
They offer a product. You pay for it. They don't provide it. Surely they have to refund you by law? (Unless they're insolvent, obviously.)
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| maggi wrote: |
I don't get it.
They offer a product. You pay for it. They don't provide it. Surely they have to refund you by law? (Unless they're insolvent, obviously.) |
If the customer cancels for any reason it is none refundable and the customer pays in full, however when Club Med cancel it they seem to want the same rules (none refundable). Basically they are stealing customers money on the back of this disaster...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Travel expert on the BBC has said to avoid a credit at all costs. Refund or claim if possible, if not rebook. The issue is if they go out of business you can’t claim for credits but you can for a firm booking. Also changes to regulations when we leave the EU formally in 2021 may also impact credit notes somehow (was distracted so didn’t hear it all).
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Most suppliers will have a force majeure clause, its not their fault that everything is shut down, this is why we have insurance, my advice for ski holidays to keep things easy:-
1. Book a complete package, you rarely save a bean by trying to be cheap
2. Get a good travel insurance policy with winter sports and check EXACTLY what it covers
3. Pay a minimum of £100 on a credit card, anything purchased on credit leaves the credit provider jointly liable under section 75 of the credit consumer act
4. Buy the circa 3 euros per day lift pass insurance (carte neige etc) to avoid the hassle of a few thousand euro on the spot payment and then claim should you need a heli evac off the slope etc
I've used Club Merde many times, IMHO they are now a vile company with way overpriced all inclusive holidays, my last stay at the Val d'Isere ***t hole was the final straw.
I would not trust them with alternative bookings, credits or vouchers, claim the money back put it in the bank and start again when this has died down, preferably use some of the smaller businesses / hotels that actually care and still give great service, Good luck!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Zorrac wrote: |
We have something booked with Piere et Vacances at Easter, I would not mind if it was like the club med policy credit until april 2021, but its not
The cancellation section of our insurance policy, so called travel plus has this exclusion, "we will not pay if 5: Any loss directly or indirectly arising from any government’s regulations control or act, bankruptcy, liquidation, error, omission or default of any travel agency, tour operator, public transport carrierand/or other provider of any service forming part of the bookedtrip.
So claiming on insurance is out, and I don't particularly want to go in the summer...........................grrrr |
If it excludes all that, what exactly is the insurance covering? Sounds like a terrible clause if it doesn't allow for operators failing or governments stopping you from travelling...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Is that from a Zurich Policy? That's a riddiculous term
Put in the claim and see what they say, if its rejected refer it to the ombudsman and if you paid on a credit card claim it back from them under section 75
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| mrlossyman wrote: |
| maggi wrote: |
I don't get it.
They offer a product. You pay for it. They don't provide it. Surely they have to refund you by law? (Unless they're insolvent, obviously.) |
If the customer cancels for any reason it is none refundable and the customer pays in full, however when Club Med cancel it they seem to want the same rules (none refundable). Basically they are stealing customers money on the back of this disaster... |
Except that Club Med haven’t cancelled, the resorts are closed because the French Govt say so. They aren’t stealing money they are keeping the funds that you paid in accordance with their Ts & Cs. They and every other company in the French Alps are in a position where they have everything in place to provide you with the service you paid for and are willing and able to do so. They can’t due to circumstances beyond their control.
The choice is probably:
A: Refund clients and have to make redundancies and/or go bust
B: Rely on Ts&Cs, hold money and take the reputational and legal battles that will probably ensue, but continue to operate
Should people lose their jobs because people lost their holidays due to a global pandemic?
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You know it makes sense.
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My apartment is open, if someone wants to come and stay in peace and quiet, enjoy the walking,beautiful spring weather and cook dinner in our well-equipped kitchen, they are quite welcome. The supermarket,pharmacy bakery and probably the butcher are open for business. I am not closed. Anyone mourning the loss of their 2020 holiday is quite welcome to take a look at my website and book for 2021.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Hells Bells wrote: |
| My apartment is open, if someone wants to come and stay in peace and quiet, enjoy the walking,beautiful spring weather and cook dinner in our well-equipped kitchen, they are quite welcome. The supermarket,pharmacy bakery and probably the butcher are open for business. I am not closed. Anyone mourning the loss of their 2020 holiday is quite welcome to take a look at my website and book for 2021. |
I think France will be if full lockdown within 48 hours, if not sooner
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Zorrac wrote: |
We have something booked with Piere et Vacances at Easter, I would not mind if it was like the club med policy credit until april 2021, but its not
The cancellation section of our insurance policy, so called travel plus has this exclusion, "we will not pay if 5: Any loss directly or indirectly arising from any government’s regulations control or act, bankruptcy, liquidation, error, omission or default of any travel agency, tour operator, public transport carrierand/or other provider of any service forming part of the bookedtrip.
So claiming on insurance is out, and I don't particularly want to go in the summer...........................grrrr |
From the French P&V website via translate:
Do customers with an upcoming stay have to report that they won't be coming?
All customers with a current reservation in the coming weeks (from March 15 to April 1 for a stay in Spain, from March 15, 2020 to April 15, 2020 for a stay in France), do nothing.
Their stay is being canceled and they will receive within 3 weeks a credit equivalent to their stay.
This credit will be usable until December 28, 2020 and will be worth for a next stay to be carried out until November 14, 2021.
Last update March 15, 2020 at 6 p.m.
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Sun 15-03-20 21:27; edited 2 times in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@chaletcompanyconfidential, yes, sadly you are probably right. . I am just trying to be optimistic. I have to get home too. We need to make a vets appointment for the dogs first, and have to take son to Marseille tomorrow.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| chaletcompanyconfidential wrote: |
| mrlossyman wrote: |
| maggi wrote: |
I don't get it.
They offer a product. You pay for it. They don't provide it. Surely they have to refund you by law? (Unless they're insolvent, obviously.) |
If the customer cancels for any reason it is none refundable and the customer pays in full, however when Club Med cancel it they seem to want the same rules (none refundable). Basically they are stealing customers money on the back of this disaster... |
Except that Club Med haven’t cancelled, the resorts are closed because the French Govt say so. They aren’t stealing money they are keeping the funds that you paid in accordance with their Ts & Cs. They and every other company in the French Alps are in a position where they have everything in place to provide you with the service you paid for and are willing and able to do so. They can’t due to circumstances beyond their control.
The choice is probably:
A: Refund clients and have to make redundancies and/or go bust
B: Rely on Ts&Cs, hold money and take the reputational and legal battles that will probably ensue, but continue to operate
Should people lose their jobs because people lost their holidays due to a global pandemic? |
Except Club Med haven't cancelled?? --- "Club Med has decided to close all of its ski resorts in the French Alps until the end of the current ski season for 2020", in that case they need to get a new legal department as the statement clearly says Club Med have decided, not Club Med have been told to close... Just saying
"Should people lose their jobs because people lost their holidays due to a global pandemic?" - Equally should customer lose money on a package holiday that has not been taken, lift passes not used, flights not used, food not eaten etc. etc. that is many weeks away? Yes I feel sorry for the ski resorts, but many people's jobs are at risk including my own...
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I registered and I am posting here because I believe @chaletcompanyconfidential and @spyderjon are giving misleading information (vested interest??). @chaletcompanyconfidential please give me a link to these Ts & Cs and point me to the relevant paragraphs. Force majeure only implies they don't have to provide extra compensation as far as I can tell.
IANAL but I have combed through the booking conditions they sent (referencing Directive (EU) 2015/2302) and I can't think of a way they could avoid offering a refund on request IF you have bought a package (flight+accomodation). Considering the situation, ie, station completely closed, you would be entitled a full refund even if you had cancelled yourself.
Now, regarding the morality of doing so, please consider this: 15 days ago I begged them on the phone to cancel and give us a credit for next year because my partner is considered at risk for the illness. They did not care and were only willing to refund half of the cost. Karma is a b... and they get what they deserved. I will go for them first before I even consider claiming on my credit card company.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| exx3001 wrote: |
I registered and I am posting here because I believe @chaletcompanyconfidential and @spyderjon are giving misleading information (vested interest??). @chaletcompanyconfidential please give me a link to these Ts & Cs and point me to the relevant paragraphs. Force majeure only implies they don't have to provide extra compensation as far as I can tell.
IANAL but I have combed through the booking conditions they sent (referencing Directive (EU) 2015/2302) and I can't think of a way they could avoid offering a refund on request IF you have bought a package (flight+accomodation). Considering the situation, ie, station completely closed, you would be entitled a full refund even if you had cancelled yourself.
Now, regarding the morality of doing so, please consider this: 15 days ago I begged them on the phone to cancel and give us a credit for next year because my partner is considered at risk for the illness. They did not care and were only willing to refund half of the cost. Karma is a b... and they get what they deserved. I will go for them first before I even consider claiming on my credit card company. |
exx3001 - was this Club Med ? I read a news article of a similar situation where a guys wife had cancer diagnosed and CM refused any refund, even part refund...
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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It was/is ClubMed. I called between 1 month and 15 days before the trip so 50% was the contractual refund.
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@woodpecker, Yes its a Zurich policy, but luckily P&V have now changed the cancel policy as @klwood, has noted, so we can get a credit and use it towards next year, and also the hotel on the way down has said we can rebook for christmas, and the boat has also allowed free re-booking, so don't think we will need to claim. However yes the insurance is a bit crap, and we will not be renewing it. Its PJ Haymans Premier plus policy, with Zurich as Underwriter.
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| mrlossyman wrote: |
| exx3001 wrote: |
I registered and I am posting here because I believe @chaletcompanyconfidential and @spyderjon are giving misleading information (vested interest??). @chaletcompanyconfidential please give me a link to these Ts & Cs and point me to the relevant paragraphs. Force majeure only implies they don't have to provide extra compensation as far as I can tell.
IANAL but I have combed through the booking conditions they sent (referencing Directive (EU) 2015/2302) and I can't think of a way they could avoid offering a refund on request IF you have bought a package (flight+accomodation). Considering the situation, ie, station completely closed, you would be entitled a full refund even if you had cancelled yourself.
Now, regarding the morality of doing so, please consider this: 15 days ago I begged them on the phone to cancel and give us a credit for next year because my partner is considered at risk for the illness. They did not care and were only willing to refund half of the cost. Karma is a b... and they get what they deserved. I will go for them first before I even consider claiming on my credit card company. |
exx3001 - was this Club Med ? I read a news article of a similar situation where a guys wife had cancer diagnosed and CM refused any refund, even part refund... |
I had to do this last year, but that is why you take out insurance (or not) to cover that possibility, not sure why you think the provider should take the hit?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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>not sure why you think the provider should take the hit?
Because this is what I am reading from the European Package Travel Directive and Club Med is definitely selling holiday packages. In this situation, your insurer should refuse to pay until a claim is made against Club Med first and I think they would be right.
As I said I am not a lawyer so I am going to point to an authoritative document:
https://ec.europa.eu/info/sites/info/files/information_package_travel_directive_covid19.pdf
My opinion is that it was bad PR from Club Med to try and pull a fast one like that.
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As you seem to be struggling to find them, Club Med T&C:
12. Liability
Under no circumstances can Club Med® be held responsible for circumstances of force majeure (referred to as "exceptional and
unavoidable circumstances”) due to third parties unconnected with the provision of services provided for in the Contract or
improper performance of the Contract attributable to the G.M®. In particular, it is recalled that in “Winter Sports Destination”
Resorts, Club Med® cannot be held responsible in case of the closure of the ski area due to exceptional and unavoidable
circumstances. The G.M® cannot therefore claim a price reduction or compensation of any kind.
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FAQ
