 Poster: A snowHead
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Simply for the reason that she never goes off piste, my wife has only ever owned carving skis. She is quite competent on pisted slopes, but struggles when conditions are not ideal. Putting aside questions about technique, might she be better off replacing her well used carving skis with an all mountain ski? My logic being that she’ll be fine skiing an all mountain ski on a smooth piste, but would benefit from the all mountain ski in chopped up, powdery or slushy conditions. Technique wise she tends to be a short turner rather than a carver.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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It "may" make sense to go for something a little wider - maybe 78 - 80 - but still be very Piste orientated, with a tight turning radius of no more than 14m.
Think slightly wider Piste ski, rather than AM ski.....but trying stuff out is the only safe way to know, as suggestions are no more than theory and guessing.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Repeated testing of different skis. Doesn't matter whether it is all mountain, piste or big feet. Whatever she is happiest with. I've got a be in my bonnet about 'all mountain' skis, so I would always say piste.
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ALL skis are carving skis.
So I don't understand the question.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Austrian Seagull, ignoring the pedantic one above I'll assume that what you mean by carving skis are narrow waisted piste skis vs wider waisted "all mountain" skis.
Short answer, no I don't think a wider ski would help her if she's a short turner. You don't mention what she's on but I'm guessing they're a bit old and floppy. I'd get her a stiffer short turner so it cuts through the chopped up and slushy conditions instead of being deflected. Powder on piste is almost irrelevant; in both cases she'll be skiing through it rather than on it. A stiffer ski would make that easier too.
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@Raceplate, many thanks for your response. She currently skis Rossignol Unique 2’s, which are extremely light and have a 70 waste. She has a strong preference for shorter turns partly for fear of being wiped out skiing wider turns. I’m hoping that this fear will eventually disappear and that she’ll become more comfortable turning wider. Maybe new skis will give her greater confidence.
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@Austrian Seagull, these things are linked. Longer turns = greater speed which requires more confidence. Confidence comes from stability and edge grip. Stability at speed comes from stiffness and length. A lightweight ski isn't going to give confidence at speed.
I wouldn't recommend a significant length increase to a nervous intermediate but assuming she has reasonable stance and balance you could be very surprised at what a difference a detuned slalom style ski could make to her confidence.
I've had ladies who technically couldn't ski for tuppence tell me how fantastic "race" skis are simply because of the confidence they got from the enhanced edge grip of a stiffer ski. The skis were way above their level but they were happy so who cares?
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| Raceplate wrote: |
@Austrian Seagull
I've had ladies who technically couldn't ski for tuppence tell me how fantastic "race" skis are simply because of the confidence they got from the enhanced edge grip of a stiffer ski. The skis were way above their level but they were happy so who cares? |
^^ This. And very much not just 'ladies'.
Most people would find that they had a much better time skiing on a soft, narrow waisted, piste ski which came up to their chin. (In my opinion).
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Austrian Seagull, definitely a vote in favor of All Mtn for her, and for precisely the reasons you cited! I am going to help my daughter make this very migration. And its not gender-specific, this is sound for the guys too.
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You can’t beat trying out a few to see what suits you. Favourite skis are very much personal preferences.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Test a few different skis if she can. Going from these https://www.ski-review.com/ski_reviews/review/rossignol_unique_2s_2014/ to a race ski as suggested above will be chalk and cheese. She might like the edge hold but will she be able to turn them and will she like the weight - I doubt it. 6 years later skis have improved. Personally I’d guess something a little wider with a bit of rocker will be much easier in variable conditions and not give up much on piste. Sounds like that’s what you’re looking for
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@Raceplate, confidence comes from solid technique.
Kit is no substitute for skill.
Sounds like some good lessons are the script, not more bits of kit. IMHO...
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| under a new name wrote: |
@Raceplate, confidence comes from solid technique.
Kit is no substitute for skill.
Sounds like some good lessons are the script, not more bits of kit. IMHO... |
That is all true.....but......the right kit, that is more suitable for the task, makes acquiring that skill much easier.
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You know it makes sense.
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| under a new name wrote: |
@Raceplate, confidence comes from solid technique.
Kit is no substitute for skill. |
Thank you for that blinding piece of insight.
| under a new name wrote: |
| Sounds like some good lessons are the script, not more bits of kit. IMHO... |
But what if her one and only bit of kit is totally unsuitable for her needs?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Thanks for all the great responses. The lesson point is of course more than valid, but she is at the point now where she is happy doing what she does and is not looking to improve her technique. It’s just a case of trying to find the most appropriate skis to optimise her skiing ability, particularly when the slopes are more difficult.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Austrian Seagull, you could be describing me, except that I'm not married to you or anyone. I don't ski off piste, but I do have slightly more 'all mountain' focussed skis for the very reason that I wanted skis that could deal with anything I might encounter on piste from hard to fresh snow to slush to anything in between. I also wanted stability at speed and the ability to make shorter and longer radius turns. Mine are 80 wide Atomics and they definitely fit the bill.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| queenie pretty please wrote: |
| @Austrian Seagull, you could be describing me, except that I'm not married to you or anyone. I don't ski off piste, but I do have slightly more 'all mountain' focussed skis for the very reason that I wanted skis that could deal with anything I might encounter on piste from hard to fresh snow to slush to anything in between. I also wanted stability at speed and the ability to make shorter and longer radius turns. Mine 9are 80 wide Atomics and they definitely fit the bill. |
+1, save that I have Scott Lunas, which I believe aren't made any more. I'm sure spyderjon of this parish (The Piste Office) could advise on suitable equivalents.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Have been trying out new skis this week as my atomic nomads have a large radius and my old knees find them tiring, tried some saloMon xdr 78 and found it a huge change not so stable on piste but off the side they were great, tried some elan amphibio 80 and only did a couple of runs on hard packed runs as couldnt stand up on the bloody things, gave up and went back to my own and had a great say on bumps on the blacks round st g, think I might go to a snow dome in the uk on a trial day
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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These I feel would be interesting https://www.sport-conrad.com/en/products/scott/scrapper-90.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMI5vimzYr_5wIVgbTtCh3cvQIsEAQYBCABEgLt_PD_BwE&hc_fcv=Xl617hHLTYBehkLu~LZupvic0QkJeYU06zzzzzzzz~LZupvfg0QkJeTU-xzzzzzzzz
That's if they are in the right sizing range.
I'm deeply sceptical of much of the advertising "crap" generally given out about products, but feel that Scott really do have something here in the way they blend the differing radii performance into one ski.
Anecdotally, we have a male skier in our group on 175cm x 10.4cm Scotts with their 3D sidecut geometry. And we tried them with a 60kg female to see what she thought, and she felt they were one of the best skis tried. It just seems like the numbers wouldn't stack up as she's not a aggressive skier, but the shear ease of use from hard morning piste to deep afternoon melt they were tried in, she thought they enhanced everything.
They do appear to give speed stability AND such ease of turn shape, just seem to lack nothing, much to our surprise.
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It seems to me that modern skis of 80-90mm width ski amazingly well on piste. I‘m not sure why, something to do with tip shape or tip rocker maybe?
Can anyone explain to me what it is about modern 80-90mm skis that make them ski so much better on piste than skis of the same width from a few years ago?
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@Oceanic, At a guess, it's probably a mixture of the Tip Rocker and the ability to make skis torsionally stiff and longitudinally supple....as well as using lighter materials.
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For me the 90mm point is quote a sweet spot in geometry in various guises and for different skiers. Even 11 yrs daughter on 85mm 150cm twin tips. She's been skiing since are 4.
But to give reason @Oceanic, they can run fairly strong camber rate (not height) under central foot section, that with fairly mild turn geometry makes a stable grippy ski for flat surfaces without the tip or tail (if they are rockered) interfering with that section as they ride predominantly slightly lifted from the snow.
As you start to crank them over, then the full ski curvature begins to interact with the surface you're skiing on and takes them into more of a carving ski. Done properly by the manufacturer, it gives a very smooth transition.
Wider waist along with wide tip +tail also give better support on soft, melt snow that may also have bigger bumps.
Running on flat piste, you really are skiing what is essentially a short ski as it doesn't need to stop you diving into snow. But if you do, then the width will catch you.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Klamm Franzer wrote: |
| Raceplate wrote: |
@Austrian Seagull
I've had ladies who technically couldn't ski for tuppence tell me how fantastic "race" skis are simply because of the confidence they got from the enhanced edge grip of a stiffer ski. The skis were way above their level but they were happy so who cares? |
^^ This. And very much not just 'ladies'.
Most people would find that they had a much better time skiing on a soft, narrow waisted, piste ski which came up to their chin. (In my opinion). |
And the key reason the junior Austrian race clubs spend the majority of time on GS skis. Slalom skis can hide technical deficiencies which GS skis find out.
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@Austrian Seagull, How about the Rossignol Hero Elite plus Ti which at 78mm waist is wider than the pure piste ski so is able to float a little more but still gives superb on piste performance with a turn radius of 12m in the 160cm, 13m in the 167cm length. This is definitely still a piste ski but for the lighter person can help over the chopped up and slushy stuff.
You have to be really careful with the choice because I don't expect that she would want to compromise smooth piste enjoyment for the sake of disliking chopped up a little less, and as always there is no substitute for trying them.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Best to find a 'good' resort with a wide range of quality skis to demo - maybe Canada or US towards end of season for ex demo bargains also...
Try out some rockered 80-90mm type skis vs same 80-90 all camber no rocker to get some feel for what she likes and dislikes, and versions with and without metal.
She really should try Kastle MX89s, as they have the extra width with the carving performance and no flappy rocker tips.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| coops1967 wrote: |
| She really should try Kastle MX89s, as they have the extra width with the carving performance and no flappy rocker tips. |
Bloody hell, that's a bit of a step up from a pair of Rossi Unique 2s!
They're great skis but I wouldn't recommend MX89s to anyone with less than 40 weeks under their belt, a strong technical style and big cojones. They don't come alive until at least 40mph and are best suited to seasonaires or gym rats that do at least 30 days/season IMO. They're not a punter ski.
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Many of the lady skiers of my acquaintance swear by the Elan Delight. A step up from that is the Elan Insomnia, which uses the Amphibio design - inside edge for grip and carving, outside edge rockered. Mrs TT loves hers.
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