 Poster: A snowHead
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I just don't get what's special about it!
Surely you could get as good instruction with some local European recommended instructors, have less jet lag and ski more vertical with an off piste clinic from someone like Warren Smith, or Alpine Experience for pure off piste??
I'm deliberately being antagonistic as I'm trying to plan the mother of all skis trips to celebrate my 40th next year, so am looking at all options!
REgards,
Greg
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I've never been, but as I understand it, the coaches are the top coaches and the quality of instruction is quite high. On top of that you get good rates at great resorts and a good bunch of people to ski with
is that about right?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| gregh wrote: |
Surely you could get as good instruction with some local European recommended instructors, have less jet lag and ski more vertical with an off piste clinic from someone like Warren Smith, or Alpine Experience for pure off piste??
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yes
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| gregh wrote: |
Surely you could get as good instruction with some local European recommended instructors, have less jet lag and ski more vertical with an off piste clinic from someone like Warren Smith, or Alpine Experience for pure off piste??
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You can certainly get great instruction with some of the specialist ski schools around Europe. Epic gets very good reviews from the people that attend that, so I suppose you're in the fortunate position of having quite a wide choice of locations and ski courses to choose from. Perhaps your choice of whether to attend an Epic Academy or try a ski camp in Europe should be dictated by factors other than the quality of instruction? Do you have a particular desire to visit Aspen (where I think Epic '07 will be held), or perhaps some of the locations that Snoworks run their courses. There's also week long ski camps with a particular focus, eg backcountry, race, moguls, etc? What about trying out for a BASI trainee instructor course if you're looking to do something a bit different? So many choices... 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I know a great ex-wc racer and instructor in Livigno..... he also likes to telmark - but gets up at insane hours (4amish) to make sure he is at the summit (somewhere??) at 8am to ski down!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Presumably its a bit like the EOSB here on steroids. Held at a better time of year for possible powder conditions? More people/options/variety for classes? More Americans?
Jet lag going west isn't that bad in my experience - just gets you up nice and early for those first chairs. Coming back is obviously more depressing.
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gregh, looking at your tracks on another thread, I reckon you're a pretty handy skier. why not take a look at this:
www.skierslodge.com
or something from this (having done the skiers lodge, this is next on my wishlist):
www.straightlineadventures.com
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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cheers Arno, and spyderjon,
I guess I'm trying to plan an "ultimate" trip next year, which really has to include powder, as I really enjoy skiing it!
So the choice seems to be try something like ESA, as Aspen has a good snow record, or "pencil" in a few weekends and only book if a storm is forecast...
many months, debates with the missus and threads on here to follow I'm sure 
regards,
greg
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gregh, if you can really push the budget out go for two weeks. I went out on the Sat & had a gentle ski on the Sun to find my feet. ESA then happened over the next four days. We then skied the same resort for a couple of days before spending the following week skiing the other local mountains via hire car.
The benefit for me was that rather than leaving soon after the course I could put in to practice the following week in unfamiliar surroundings everything I had learned during the academy & hopefully really drill it in to my skiing.
I'd never flown long haul before but there's no jet lag problem going out although I felt crap for a few days when back in blighty.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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i feel obliged to chime in. the instructors chosen for epicski are all very, very good. i think weems and the others associated with ESA have done everything they can to bring together the best staff that they can gather.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Rusty Guy, not sure if you've been reading the start of the line-up for next year, but it's looking like Mike Rogan and a few others will be there too.
(I agree with what spyderjon says, but I am a tad biased)
As a side note, if you do go to the ESA, and you book as being a snowHead, then this site gets $25 as a referral fee.
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gregh, I've held back on posting to stop me giving a kneejerk reply.
I'm sure there are courses run as well and with instructors as good as those at Epic, in the Alps. But as I've only had "regular" class and private lessons I can't compare.
I agree that the Alps do have more vertical, better food, better scenery, and no jet lag.
But before attending the ESA this year I'd spent many fruitless years in Europe (and one in Canada) hoping to be in the mountains when the conditions were good enough to allow me to start having tuition in the deeper stuff. It's been a hurdle I've been trying to get over since my third ski trip about sixteen years ago. However I either found the conditions were not good enough for novice instruction or that the standard of spoken English so poor that it wasn't happening. It nearly became a mental block when the snow got boot high.
So, I chose the trip to Utah, over those courses in the Alps, mainly because there was a better chance of finding good snow. I also quite liked the idea of meeting up with other snowHeads on the trip. But having been, I can confirm the details posted by Jon as to "extra's" are correct and very worthwhile. But it is fun as well.
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You know it makes sense.
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gregh, Ditto Arno about Skierslodge. Mrs Ski has certainly improved since we've been going there....
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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cheers Marc,
So had you been in Utah when the conditions weren't as good, ie no fresh snow for over a week, would the trip have been worth your time?
Tehre is really no such thing as guaranteed powder, the best compromise I've found is pencil in a few weekends and be prepared to fly at the last minute to storm chase!
Regards,
Greg
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Poster: A snowHead
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| gregh wrote: |
| So had you been in Utah when the conditions weren't as good, ie no fresh snow for over a week, would the trip have been worth your time? |
[huge intake of breath]...............[/huge intake of breath]. I'm not sure.
Possibly not as my expectations/aspirations would not have been met.
The coaching would still have been good and no doubt my skiing would have improved, but the main reason for the trip would have failed.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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marc gledhill, I think in the second week, we only had a dusting of snow (around 10-20cm). Not sure what the other guys thought, but there was still powder to be had, just not as much deep fresh stuff as the first week.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Wear The Fox Hat, OK, I suppose it wasn't so much fresh snow I was after. Just deeper and still in existance on the easier pitches.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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spyderjon,
Haven't you been on both ESA and Warren Smith's course (correct me if I'm wrong)? Which did you find most beneficial, and why?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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gregh, I thought that you were thinking about a heliskiing trip next season?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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beanie1, yep I've done two of Warren's one week courses & this year's 4 day ESA in Utah.
Both excellent but in different ways:
Warren Smith
I started skiing in Jan 04 & did my 3rd & 4th weeks on snow on his courses in July 04 in Saas Fee & in Dec 04 in Verbier after having two weeks of skiing with ski school (1wk ESF & 1wk New Gen). I did a few of his Xscape days prior to booking & liked what I saw & heard.
More a 'clinic' type approach. Single group of 12-14 with Warren, Phil Hooper & Jamie Wilcox. Lots of technique drills working in smaller groups. Saas Fee was on the glacier & the Verbier week had crap snow at the time so only had a few runs open. This was not a problem for me as it was basic technique drills I was after rather than off-piste & bumps etc. If you want to really frighten yourself both Phil & Jamie are also qualified freestyle instructors.
Entry criteria is parallel on reds & I was probably the weakest skier in the group with a very professional stem initiation on reds. At the other end of the scale one person was a recent BASI 3 graduate & one was in training for the same level. Two fantastic weeks learning loads inc his famous "ankle flex, ankle flex". During the second week I used the Wed day off to have a day's private with Phil Hooper & this was a major breakthrough day for me. Although Warren teaches his 'format/doctrine' good individual feedback is given by him & the guys, all of which are extremely enthusiastic. Superb video feedback (with individual copies to take away) supported by his books & DVD's. I probably wouldn't do another course as I would either want private tuition or to be in a small group of well matched skiers. I can't see myself taking a private lesson in Europe with anyone other than Warren or one of his team. I've toyed with the idea of a career break & taking a gap course. If so I would do Warren's course in Verbier.
ESA
I'd done 7 weeks on snow prior to attending ESA plus a week ASSI course at Castleford so I'd progressed quite a bit since doing Warren's course, having had a couple of half days private tuition during each additional week of skiing prior to ESA. This year there were 71 students with 15 instructors. Due to the closely matched groups of 5 max you effectively get private tuition with the added benefit of a group spirit & hearing the feedback given to the other group members etc. For this reason I go back again.
In the last few weeks of European skiing I'd not seen any decent fresh powder so as marc said, Utah seemed to be the place to go to get some powder & boy did we get it! Plenty of bumps & steeps also.
ESA seems to have a reputation as a course for high end skiers. While the top group(s) were occupied by instructors or equivalent level there were some 'almost beginner' groups. ESA are trying to encourage more lower level skiers to attend.
The ESA course 'extras' are hard to put a value on but IMO, being a techy geek, made the trip.
Conclusion
They were both equally benificial to me for what I wanted at the time & I can strongly recommend both.
Attending one of Warren's days at Xscape is the best way to gauge how you'd like his course.
Having had plenty of lessons the ESA instructors are certainly the best of the best & I would put Warren, Phil & Jamie on the same level.
ESA is the more expensive of the two due to flight costs.
beanie1, if you & your man (a newish skier if I recall) are thinking of one of the above then the ESA would suit your differing abilities & requirements perfectly.
Hope this helps.
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spyderjon, hawt damn, good post!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I attended ESA 2004in Snowbird and Straightline Adventures in Chamonix in 2006.
I found both to be excellent, in a not-too-dissimilar way (although proper epicski and TGR afficionados may think otherwise!). Of the two, ESA is the only one which caters to intermediates and beginners (as well as to advanced skiers). In the str8line camps, the level of the top attendees is /can be higher, you get to ski with more rockstars and the atmosphere is somewhat 'younger'. The Cham one was also somewhat more expensive, at least before flights. For both, the level of instruction was excellent.
ESA is amongst the best out there. I'm sure though that very good instruction can be had in Europe - but only on a few select courses. I found video analysis sessions on both of these to be very good (perhaps more so on str8line).
The only other instruction I ever had was two hours of a private lesson with an ESF instructor. Nice fellow but I think he had had too many beginners and just wanted to rip it, with me following. Not a lot learned I'm afraid.
As for powder - the likelihood of finding it is greater in the USA afaik, but then again if that's a dealbreaker, one is better off with last-minute bookings (last-minute long weekends are something I intend to do next year).
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kramer,
heli is one of the many options i'm considering. currently i'm thinking heli is expensive for what you get. with good snow & good guide I reckon on being able to ski good powder without a heli.
thanks for all the replies so far!
regards,
greg
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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skierslodge looks the puppies privates, I'm sure a friend stayed there many years ago.
I guess they book up pretty early so the chance of booking last minute if a storm is forecast ain't that likely?
regards,
Greg
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| spyderjon wrote: |
I can't see myself taking a private lesson in Europe with anyone other than Warren or one of his team. I've toyed with the idea of a career break & taking a gap course. If so I would do Warren's course in Verbier.
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I found an ex-wc racer in Livigno you might enjoy if you want a change.... very nice....
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You know it makes sense.
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spyderjon,
Great review, thanks!
No not currently considering, but maybe in the future.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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gregh, bear in mind that the regular Skierslodge service is guided off piste not tuition, there's a big difference, they group thier guests by ability supply the guides, safety equipmwnt and any additional transport. If you're looking for coaching they are starting to run some specialist weeks which I can recommend.
If you're competent off piste already the guide service is excellent.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| little tiger wrote: |
| I found an ex-wc racer in Livigno you might enjoy if you want a change.... very nice.... |
Thanks J. Is there anywhere you don't have an instructor?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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gregh, Skierslodge website will tell you of availability......
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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gregh,
Stay in LDA and have a car to drive round. That may form the basis of our plan next year. You sound like you can look after yourself so why nail verything down from this distance. Or just get few firneds together and do Utah from SLC.
I'll be doing Engelberg and LG next year...thats my plan but as to when, I look at it about Dec time.
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FAQ
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... so now he has diverging and converging in his vocab... but his hand demo worked just fine... and he sure knew WHY i was doing it... 