I have just bought a pair of Fischer Ranger One 130 flex.
When I tried at the shop, it felt really stiff and after the boot fitter did all his magic and molded the shell after a nice toast in the oven, he told me not to try the boot for one day.
After almost 2 days, I decided to try them on, and for my surprise it does not feel so stiif now.
I made a short clip about it:
This is my first 130 boot, is it normal to flex like this? Am I tripping or after the oven the boot got much softer? Is that even possible?
I still haven't tested the boot yet, next Saturday I'll try it in the indoor ski nearby, but something feels weird about all this flex, even my old Nordica 80 flex doesn't bend the plastic like this
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Thu 6-02-20 22:34; edited 1 time in total
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Looks weird in the video. Like they're warping instead of flexing...
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Thomasski wrote:
Looks weird in the video. Like they're warping instead of flexing...
Pff I have absolutely no idea about these things, I just know that I've never seen boots 'flex' like that... Maybe it's the video but it looks weird. There are a few specialists on here that might be able to advise.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Thomasski wrote:
Pff I have absolutely no idea about these things, I just know that I've never seen boots 'flex' like that... Maybe it's the video but it looks weird. There are a few specialists on here that might be able to advise.
It's not the video, it's really bending the plastic
I think it's a fairly common thing for an overlap boot to bellow out in the lower clog when overflexed forwards (that's one of the advantages of the 3 piece style boots like Dalbello).
But it does look like a lot of movement. It should be less of an issue when the boots are colder (and therefore stiffer). Can you get it to happen with both feet at the same time, like when you are skiing? Or only when you overpower one leg?
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@AndreSilva, looks a bit weird to me, especially if it didn’t do this in the shop. Maybe he overcooked the plastic which weakened it?
After all it is free
After all it is free
Possible that during the shell moulding he/she left the spine/heel of the boot warm. Then during the moulding the boot was over flexed, resulting in the boot now easily flexing to the point where there is little resistance, common mistake.
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clarky999 wrote:
I think it's a fairly common thing for an overlap boot to bellow out in the lower clog when overflexed forwards (that's one of the advantages of the 3 piece style boots like Dalbello).
But it does look like a lot of movement. It should be less of an issue when the boots are colder (and therefore stiffer). Can you get it to happen with both feet at the same time, like when you are skiing? Or only when you overpower one leg?
It happens even if I am wearing both boots in skiing position
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CH2O wrote:
Possible that during the shell moulding he/she left the spine/heel of the boot warm. Then during the moulding the boot was over flexed, resulting in the boot now easily flexing to the point where there is little resistance, common mistake.
Ohhhh... That can be. Is it really a common mistake
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Quote:
Ohhhh... That can be. Is it really a common mistake
If the shop has no way of refreezing the spine, absolutely.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
CH2O wrote:
Quote:
Ohhhh... That can be. Is it really a common mistake
If the shop has no way of refreezing the spine, absolutely.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
It became quickly obvious with the trend with modern TPU plastics, great to downsize and oven them, but, watch the heel below, and flex get destroyed!!!!
That is the entire function and design of a ski boot, and thus needs protecting.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@AndreSilva,
I wouldn't beat the shop up too much, they are just following the Manufacturer's protocol. Baaaaaaaaaaaaaa Baaaaaaaa
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
CH2O wrote:
@AndreSilva,
I wouldn't beat the shop up too much, they are just following the Manufacturer's protocol. Baaaaaaaaaaaaaa Baaaaaaaa
No plans to beat them, just want to replace it for a new one and hope they don't mess it up again with the oven
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
could be as CH20 said over heated/over flexed during the moulding process, or it might just be you are a big guy and you are stood in a heated house at 20 degrees, i wouldn't be jumping too hard to demand a replacement until i saw it at normal operating temps
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
My understanding is that a boot that fits much better is easier to flex.
Maybe putting them in the freezer or maybe skiing in a ski hall/dome would simulate the cold temps of the mountains.
Failing that how far away is the shop? Maybe it makes sense to go back to the shop and compare it against the flex of the same boot unmoulded or other 130 flex boots. (flex ratings are not a precise science)
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
You could try putting the boot in the freezer, or, packing it with ice then re video your flex test. As CEM says (he fits boots for a living and knows what he is talking about) could be that you are strong/heavy and just overflexing the boot at room temperatures. If it still overflexs then return to the shop with both videos and your boots
@skimottaret,
I see we both posted at the same time, great minds think alike.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
IMO this is down to the plastics used on the shell and shop probably cooking it too much.
I had a similar issue with some Salomons with their easy cook plastic before I knew better, baked in the shop, couple of days later and they did the same thing even in the alps at -5. These days my alpine boots are plug boots which are only made of PU based plastics and 120 flex and are much 'stiffer' than the shop style easy bake 130's.
For reference I'm 6'4 and 95 kg and can't even bend my current 130' touring boots close to that much at room temp.
could be as CH20 said over heated/over flexed during the moulding process, or it might just be you are a big guy and you are stood in a heated house at 20 degrees, i wouldn't be jumping too hard to demand a replacement until i saw it at normal operating temps
I thought that the temperature could be the issue here, but I have just compared with my old Nordica 80 flex, one in each foot and they seem to be flexing with the same effort... That can't be right
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
DB wrote:
My understanding is that a boot that fits much better is easier to flex.
Maybe putting them in the freezer or maybe skiing in a ski hall/dome would simulate the cold temps of the mountains.
Failing that how far away is the shop? Maybe it makes sense to go back to the shop and compare it against the flex of the same boot unmoulded or other 130 flex boots. (flex ratings are not a precise science)
That is the thing, I remember how this boot flexed before the oven, and now it feels really different(although more comfortable).
The shop is about 1:30 drive from here, but I guess I will talk with them tomorrow and go there Saturday so I can compare with the same boot fresh from the box and check what is the difference beforen and after the oven.
After all it is free
After all it is free
skimottaret wrote:
You could try putting the boot in the freezer, or, packing it with ice then re video your flex test. As CEM says (he fits boots for a living and knows what he is talking about) could be that you are strong/heavy and just overflexing the boot at room temperatures. If it still overflexs then return to the shop with both videos and your boots
I will try the freezer approach tomorrow!
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The flex does look very odd. Have you got your boots done up firmly? In the video it looks as if your buckles are just in the first slot which is surprising.
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olderscot wrote:
The flex does look very odd. Have you got your boots done up firmly? In the video it looks as if your buckles are just in the first slot which is surprising.
On the 2 upper buckles it was very tight, the 2 lower ones were quite loose indeed, but I also did this in my Nordica 80 flex and it does not bend like that
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
I would have thought the foot plays a significant role in keeping the boot the right shape and preventing deformation. Particularly as manufacturers strive to lighten boots by using thinner plastics. If you don't do up the boots tightly then surely you're removing the ability of the foot to help the boot stay in the correct shape and leaving space for them to distort where they wouldn't normally.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I did the freezer test, 20 minutes at -19 celsius.
The boot was firmer for sure, more difficult to slide my foot, but still flexing a lot, check it:
When I tried the boot for the first time at the store before the oven, it was not flexing like this.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@AndreSilva, have you actually been back to the store to talk about it with them rather than just posting it all over the internet? nobody on here can advise you, and whilst two of the people responding you you are boot fitters it is very difficult to tell for sure if there is a problem or just an unrealistic expectation without seeing the boot in the flesh
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
That boot has also been reviewed as feeling more like a 120 flex when compared with some others. I have found that a freeride/touring boot always feels like 10 - 20 less on the flex rating compared with performance piste boots.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
CEM wrote:
@AndreSilva, have you actually been back to the store to talk about it with them rather than just posting it all over the internet? nobody on here can advise you, and whilst two of the people responding you you are boot fitters it is very difficult to tell for sure if there is a problem or just an unrealistic expectation without seeing the boot in the flesh
Not posting all over internet mate, just trying to understand what is happening.
They already know about it and tomorrow I'm going back to the store.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
looks about right to me.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
CH2O wrote:
Possible that during the shell moulding he/she left the spine/heel of the boot warm. Then during the moulding the boot was over flexed, resulting in the boot now easily flexing to the point where there is little resistance, common mistake.
@AndreSilva, when I had my boots done, I was told not to apply any forward pressure on the boot during the cooling, just to carefully step into the boots whilst on the cooling mat and stand still. They then did the buckles up with minimal tension and I had to stand still for 2 mins - no walking or flexing. After that time they placed cooling packs round the boots and I had to stand still for another 5 or so mins. Does that process sound like your fitting process? Do you think you flexed them whilst cooling and if so were you advised not to? My boots were Atomic Hawx so maybe different process.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
SnowB1KinOldy wrote:
CH2O wrote:
Possible that during the shell moulding he/she left the spine/heel of the boot warm. Then during the moulding the boot was over flexed, resulting in the boot now easily flexing to the point where there is little resistance, common mistake.
@AndreSilva, when I had my boots done, I was told not to apply any forward pressure on the boot during the cooling, just to carefully step into the boots whilst on the cooling mat and stand still. They then did the buckles up with minimal tension and I had to stand still for 2 mins - no walking or flexing. After that time they placed cooling packs round the boots and I had to stand still for another 5 or so mins. Does that process sound like your fitting process? Do you think you flexed them whilst cooling and if so were you advised not to? My boots were Atomic Hawx so maybe different process.
Quite the opposite to be honest, after he took it out of the oven I stepped into the boots and he asked me to be in ski position while the "Fischer vacum" thing was molding it, I was like that for 7 minutes.
we have used the technique in the past to help soften WC boots down without having to cut and butcher them, works really well to bring say a 160 down to 130. It does however reduce rebound, create play in the clog/cuff interface also. Not advised for hard conditions but for free skiing/freestyle it works a treat and keeps the lateral stiffness as it should be. All that to say the process is simple, but even more simple to mess up.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@AndreSilva, You have take this on the chin me thinks. Whether other boot sellers agree or disagree whether this is the "best" procedure is really for "Your" boot fitter to judge. He/She has a range of techniques and experience, if they felt this was correct that is their choice, and indeed before that, your choice to use this particular person. If of course you are not happy then you need to see them and discuss what can be done about it.
As I continue to try and explain, and what drives me crazy at work is that the public seems to think all boot fitter's come out of the same factory, unfortunately we/they don't. There are varying degrees of competence in our industry, just like any other. Time served around feet, in resort, ski time, product testing, selling and seeing repeat customers are all vital to us here on the snow. I personally shudder at the thought of doing this job away from snow, you just don't get the repeat traffic we require to improve and update our processes at the same pace as the products change.
If you are not satisfied, the you have the right to return, however whether you boot fitter agrees or disagrees with the procedure is in there best experience. I dare say you will get new boots, and your boot fitter will try return the boots to Fischer siting the procedure at fault.
Fischer have created a product and a process that is designed to help the inexperienced "off snow" boot fitters a chance of convincing you they're competent, that you're being sold a custom made product, and that is doesn't hurt. It's utter nonsense IMO.
You can also have your feet scanned and a model sold to you at probably around 3 sizes too big, don't allow parlour tricks convince you that your getting your boots fitted. Find someone in salopettes, having just returned from skiing, feet fresh in their mind to help you!
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
So I went to the shop after I sent him the video I posted.
Once there we compared with a fresh out of the box pair of the same boots and although it was flexing a bit less, it was not a relevant difference.
Turns out that once I put in my head that it was flexing too much, I was forcing it in a unrealistic way that will never happen in a real ski scenario. Also, I'm a 100kg guy that was pushing all my weight into only one foot... of course it would bend a lot.
In my head, when I tried before the oven it was much stiffer, but now I see that it was not really. He analyzed different movements and checked that there is not any kind of weird flex.
Besides testing a new pair of the same model, I also tried again the Atomic Hawx Magna 130 again and both of them were over flexing when I put all my eight into one foot only.
BTW: I could clearly see the difference of how my feet feels in the fresh pair and in mine that was fitted for me, they did a great job.
He asked me to go skiing in real snow or indoor, as long as it's cold so I can test it in real life conditions, and if I'm not happy with it, I can replace it for free.
Very nice from them and now I know that I was tripping about my idea of much a 130 flex boot should flex
After all it is free
After all it is free
@AndreSilva,
Thanks for letting us know how it went.
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