Foot beds for flat feet?

A snowHead

Hi, I unfortunately have been gifted with flat feet that has always caused trouble for me when skiing (15+ years) I sometimes suffer from pain on the outside part of my feet normally after a few hours on the hill.

Current ski boots have custom moulded insole. Since these where moulded to my feet they don't have much of an Arch and are quite flat. They definitely reduce pain from the stock standard insoles but are not perfect. I also worry that they are putting my alignment out because of not much arch?

Other road to go down is to change to a foot bed with lot more arch support. I have orthotic in my running shoes with arch support that feel comfortable but am concerned that putting these in Ski boots will cause more pressure onto the outside of my foot from the angle.

Question really is, should I get foot beds with prominent Arch support (like my orthotics) or stick the current ones with not much arch support?

Anyone else in the same situation?

Thanks

A snowHead

@Downhill21, nobody can answer this fully without first seeing your feet and doing a fairly detailed examination, flat feet is a pretty generic term and many GP's use it wrongly, a true pathological flat foot is flat on the ground and flat when in non weight bearing, the fact that you have an orthotic in your running shoe which has" a prominent arch" would suggest that you have an excessively pronated foot rather than a flat foot (the difference being basically when your foot is off the ground hanging mid air that there is an arch)

if your foot pronates in the way i think it might and you describe pressure on the lateral side of the foot it might suggest that you have a limitation of the flexion at your ankle joint, caused by tight calf muscles or fascia... when you take one plane of motion away the others increase to compensdate, hence the abduction (external rotation) of the foot.

so whats the solution.... after assessment to check out this is what is actually happening the orthotic footbed should be made in a neutral or near neutral position (sometimes perfection is uncomfortable)by a skilled technician, not just stand on this squishy mat and hope....a well made footbed is not about forcing or supporting the arch as such, it is about controlling the motion of the rear foot and filling the gaps under the arch, if care is not taken then the whole thing can result in a sensation akin to standing on a golf ball..... a small heel lift may be required to reduce the pronatory twist on the foot caused by the tight calf

hope that helps a bit, can't be much more specific without seeing what is going on

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Can I add that the lack of flexion senario with some individuals is not to be taken lightly this physical condition can cause more pain than ill fitting boots .
Some people just have this lack of flexion condition worse than others ..... as in acute but dont know it until certain boots an hardpack conds or higher forces in those boots are encountered . .

The only thing to do is specific flexion training and lots of it over weeks months untill you get results and go full circle a few times using the boots under load or force .
Even if you have not trained flexion quite enough or specificaly enough for skiing or snowboarding and you still get some pain ......without doubt you will be in a far better place going forward than if you didnt train flexion specifically at all .

Another point is even with footbeds made by CEM above and or by anyone else they will not cure footpain from a lack of flexion too ski or snowboard as its a physical issue .
In my opinion specific flexion training in regard to skiing/snowboarding is so overlooked its just not considered at all .....yet is extremely important for some and not so for others.
It seems random as some get lack of flexion pain issues far worse than others ie some people are like rubber bands others not so.

I believe its never mentioned because the market cannot sell you specific physical flexion to ski so its blamed on what they can sell .......they can sell you new boots or footbeds etc .

The only person to consistantly mention this possible issue ie. a lack of flexion is CEM above although two others on here have as well spyderjon and raceplate

The OP could do far worse than visiting S4F for analysis on bootfit footbeds flexion etc he does wiggle your ankle about checking this flexion but personally I know only repeditive training helps as Cem stated my ankle didnt seem to bad or that wide a foot .

Bottom line is see CEM pay the bootfit money and personally train all year if a flexion condition exists as training costs nothing and is very positive .

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+1 for going to see a specialist sports clinic, analysing your gait and physiology, and if necessary, getting foot beds made for both ski boots and your daily shoes. In my case, backache was being caused by one femur being longer than the other, and the strain was amplified when skiing. Don't just get something off-the-shelf. I also came away with a set of exercises to help compensate. Well worth the relatively modest cost of the exercise.

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i should also add to the above, this tightness (gastoc soleus equinus) is becoming more and more common , we have been talking about it for many years as have a few colleagues in the USA, at our Pedorthic industry conference last November, near on 50% of the lectures over 3 days had some mention of equinus if not were entirely on the subject

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Really appreciate the reply’s. And very interesting about the flexation which could be causing the issues.

I guess they are not flat instead just have a pronated foot as you say. I am reasonably fit bit do suffer from old knee and ankle injuries from past sports.

I have a pair of old orthotics that I may cut to shape of my ski boots and see how they go

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@Downhill21, with all due respect you say you've 15 years of trouble when skiing... isn't it time to find a good boot fitter near to you and get it sorted?

I understand it's tempting to try to make do and mend... but 15 years man, you owe it to yourself to have some pain free skiing.

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

@CEM, apologies for hijacking the thread a little. Would appreciate an advice re when would it be the appropriate approximate age for a teenager to get the first pair of own boots? I appreciate this is very much an individual issue, however, any ideas on when does feet stop growing? My nearly 15y old son is 190cm tall. His running shoes are in EU 46.5 size, his regular school shoes are 45.5 size. It appears he stopped growing. I guess fitting his first pair this season might still be too early? Possibly next year at the beginning of the season when he turns 16?

A snowHead

@mooney058, you should PM CEM (or call him) if you are only interested in his opinion and start a new thread if you want a general opinion.

A snowHead

@Layne, you are right. Apologies. Will do that.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I’ve had plantar fasciitis on and off for so long. A pair of heel lifts helped as they corrected my Achilles’ tendon in my ski boots and as a result helped my arches too. There are just so many factors it’s like a minefield. So far so good for me and I’ve not had problems since but I’m still just waiting for the next bout.

What I wear are these from yourphysiosupplies

https://yourphysiosupplies.com/product/gel-heel-lifts-for-shoes/

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Without a doubt in my mind
Only a serious amount of very specific exercise long term helps... it hurts, is hard to keep up and train the pain threshold higher .

Training the lower leg is my only option.
The pain never checks out .
With long term training it moves the pain threshold up but it never actually leaves .

Soon as you up the forces through the boots like on hard rutted hardpack under high loads the severe pain returns
Because i havent trained at this high force level long term .

When i say severe pain ..when spending over two months in resort everyday a local annual village race will drop me after the line I have to release ASP... its severe

A lack of this flexion IMO is FAR worse than ill fitting boots you obviously need both except the major difference is you can buy bootfit but not physical flexion training specifically for the person .

The specific flexion training is another whole long game I find the Anterior Tibialis is a bit ch to train in my case
This lack of Lower leg/ankle range of motion and flexibility exercise is a major culprit involved in bootfit footpain imo .

Dont under estimate it as some have it harder or worse than others through no fault of your own so have to train while others dont .
Why and asking is a waste of time its been with me since early teens in old Ice skate boots .
Hard surfaces with load ie speed are when it happens even pre season on rock hard rugby grounds with long sprigs will do it after a layoff

The very fact that only a few focus on it such as S4F,s Cem is a serious indication of the bigger picture.
Cem cant say your a untrained unflexible sloth as it has to be specific training so can be mis understood .
The devil is in the detail .

Im sure my exact issues are not others but after 5 years seeing a brit Olympic team doc and a operation to reduce pain so I can train the threshold issue with less pain I am convinced .
I had a injection recently for arthritis pain in the knees so i could increase training via other knee issues on top of plantar foot pain ...now that was magic but only temporary .
Obviously Cem doesnt do injections ....I believe you have to pay the piper in sweat foremost and also pay for bootfit .
Both are what a high percentage of recreationals wont do .

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Hello, i dug this old thread out last week when looking for a solution to my foot pain whilst snowboarding. On the advice given I went to see a Sports Podiatrist earlier today.

He said that I was flat footed and had a ten to two foot angle when walking - and a lot more tech info too. The pain I get when on a board is likely to be nerve related, fixable through regular foot exercise.... calf stretches etc.

Whilst my custom moulds would help, he said neither they or a different boot would solve my problem, only daily (3x 5 minutes) of exercise would help.

So whilst no silver bullet, at least I now know what I need to do.

Everyones solution will be different, so see a specialist would be my advice too.

Cheers all!

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I have the very same issue. Poor ankle flexion/calf flexibility, as well as feet that over pronate. I have severe pain in the bottoms of my feet, particularly when I ski moguls and powder. I worked on my flexibility for the entire offseason and came back with really bad pain, it was better as the week went on, but I was super bummed it wasn't a cure all. I went to Olympic Boot Works at Squaw Valley to look at my boots (I already had their custom "heel lock" footbeds). I FINALLY have a boot that doesn't hurt. These are the things that helped me:

1. Working on flexibility and mobility 5+ days a week. My living room looks like a PT office. Downward dog, calve stretches, rolling the arch of my foot on a ball, and the SuperStrech (look it up, game changer).
2. Stretching for 15-30 minutes each morning before skiing. SuperStrech for 30 seconds on each leg.
3. Compression Socks
4. Custom Footbeds with a heel lift and "lock". In the most recent visit they added some squishy material to the arch so it wasn't a hard high arch, but added a bit more support to stop the over pronation.
4. New Boots. I am an advanced female skier (120 lbs). I was in a 90 flex boot, my last fitter said that since I wasn't flexible I shouldn't have a boot that is too stiff (my first fitter was not at Olympic Boot Works). Apparently this is wrong. When you are not flexible in your ankle the boot should be stiffer, allowing you to engage the ski without having to overstretch your lower calve/ankle. This was GAME CHANGING. I am continuing to stretch diligently, as I know ankle flexion is key to being a good skier, and improving the health of my body overall, but not having to overstretch my feet to engage the ski has stopped the pain in its tracks. When you stretch your calves to the limit it pulls on the extrinsic muscles in your feet, causing that searing pain. That no longer happens with my 105 flex boots. There is no way to skip the stretching. I don't think the boot changes would have gotten me where I am today without the stretching and the footbeds. So, to anyone who has this problem, do all the things I listed above. Stretch, foot exercises, get the footbeds, make sure you get a boot fitter who knows what they are doing. Mention this problem specifically. Bring in this post. It is so worth it. Everyone I skied with thought I was making up this pain and now it's so satisfying to leave them in the dust! Cool

After all it is free

I have the very same issue. Poor ankle flexion/calf flexibility, as well as feet that over pronate. I have severe pain in the bottoms of my feet, particularly when I ski moguls and powder. I worked on my flexibility for the entire offseason and came back with really bad pain, it was better as the week went on, but I was super bummed it wasn't a cure all. I went to Olympic Boot Works at Squaw Valley to look at my boots (I already had their custom "heel lock" footbeds). I FINALLY have a boot that doesn't hurt. These are the things that helped me:

1. Working on flexibility and mobility 5+ days a week. My living room looks like a PT office. Downward dog, calve stretches, rolling the arch of my foot on a ball, and the SuperStrech (look it up, game changer).
2. Stretching for 15-30 minutes each morning before skiing. SuperStrech for 30 seconds on each leg.
3. Compression Socks
4. Custom Footbeds with a heel lift and "lock". In the most recent visit they added some squishy material to the arch so it wasn't a hard high arch, but added a bit more support to stop the over pronation.
4. New Boots. I am an advanced female skier (120 lbs). I was in a 90 flex boot, my last fitter said that since I wasn't flexible I shouldn't have a boot that is too stiff (my first fitter was not at Olympic Boot Works). Apparently this is wrong. When you are not flexible in your ankle the boot should be stiffer, allowing you to engage the ski without having to overstretch your lower calve/ankle. This was GAME CHANGING. I am continuing to stretch diligently, as I know ankle flexion is key to being a good skier, and improving the health of my body overall, but not having to overstretch my feet to engage the ski has stopped the pain in its tracks. When you stretch your calves to the limit it pulls on the extrinsic muscles in your feet, causing that searing pain. That no longer happens with my 105 flex boots. There is no way to skip the stretching. I don't think the boot changes would have gotten me where I am today without the stretching and the footbeds. So, to anyone who has this problem, do all the things I listed above. Stretch, foot exercises, get the footbeds, make sure you get a boot fitter who knows what they are doing. Mention this problem specifically. Bring in this post. It is so worth it. Everyone I skied with thought I was making up this pain and now it's so satisfying to leave them in the dust! Cool

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Foot beds for flat feet?

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