Ortovox Diract Voice

A snowHead

Ortovox have just released their new voice guided Ortovox Diract Voice transceiver.

https://ortovox.com/int-en/shop/categories/p251699-avalanche-transceivers-ortovox-diract-voice

In their words: The Ortovox Diract Voice is the worlds First Avalanche Transceiver with Integrated Voice Navigation. Clear, Simple Instructions support you in every search phase and provide calm and clarity when your partner’s survival is of utmost importance.

Examples being: "Go down to the surface", "Run Straight", "Run in 50 M search strips and look out!"

I can see it being the first of many devices with this type of AI based guidance, and being popular with the Smart Phone generation, who rely on devices to run their lives. In the reality and the panic of an avalanche situation anything which speeds up the search is a benefit. I'm certainly not going to complain if I was found by someone using one of these.

I'm a fan of the Barryvox Intelligent fine search, and I guess that this is just an extended voice based version of that for the whole search.

A snowHead

@PowderAdict, bought one for my OH a while back which should benefit me as I'll probably be the one she'll be searching for Laughing

It won ISPO awards this year.

We've been nagging quite a bit with Cain from Snow Safe who are just down the road and are probably one of the biggest retailers of security kit in the UK.

Ironically they're distributed in the UK by the son of one of the old windsurfing distributors I knew.

Will be doing a test review in a couple of weeks along with some other stuff

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Excellent, I look forward to it. I normally pick up on new gear quite early, but this one slipped past me.

I know the saying is that the best transceiver is the one you practice with, but this one looks like it might be a genuine step forward in usabilty, if it lives up to it's promise, and there isn't one of the bizzare design flaws that some have had in the last few years.

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@PowderAdict, though in your defense many had switched off their interest in all things ski by then.

https://www.stylealtitude.com/ispo-snow-ski-award-winners-2021.html

Cool

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Thank you.

No doubt, in a sign of the current times, there will be arguments about the languages available for the voice commands, and whether the voice is male, female, or other. So it will be considered racist and xxxx-phobic Sad

It also appers to the USB rechargeble, with smartphone configuration/update, which must be first for a transceiver.

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@PowderAdict, Laughing

@PowderAdict, @moffatross, or in the case of my OH, as she doesn't read here.

"no you can't stop for a coffee" Laughing

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Fairly surprised this hasn't been done before.

The search protocols don't have that many different steps (OK, group vs single search paths, but otherwise) so given transceivers can give an arrow for the search direction, I expect you only need a relatively small set of voice commands, (turn left, turn right, walk forward, stop, precision search (hold near snow, Move left, mark, (repeat right, forward, backward), probe in centre of marks (alternative methods for precision search available as I have been taught more than one by different instructors...)

Effectively it is just a voice controlled checklist which is a fairly standard tool for emergency response because the biggest response issue is people panic and miss steps or freeze. Following relatively simple instructions short circuits the panic while being easily used in the middle of avalanche debris.

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Reminds me of the defibrillator at work.

As I see it this new Ortovox is a nice idea. Though most 3x antenna digital beacons are already point & shoot even for novices. Where you are probably going to save time is practising probing and efficient digging (as a team).

Therefore : not convinced it will necessarily be faster. Also, speaker needs to be loud for highwinds etc

You know it makes sense.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Ah, I thought they were just a repackage of the previous model. It makes sense as having to send your transceiver away for firmware updates means that many don’t do it.

A snowHead

Barryvox can update direct from another that already has the update.

I wonder whether, if several people in a search have them, will there be a risk of confusion with multiple instructions. Also will listening for instructions reduce communication between searchers.

I'll be interested to see what @Weathercam, finds in his test. In addition the the voice, range compared to barryvox and pieps.

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Just picked mine up this weekend, not used it yet hoping to give it a go in a couple of weeks at the PSB. First impressions though i love how simple it is

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@Russeh, have you used it yet, just sort of curious as to how you got on with it, and any immediate observations, though that will depend on what type of practice search you did.

I've actually been in contact with Ortovox over my concerns.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Need to get the missus a new one for Xmas. Barryvox S still the gold standard?

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@BobinCH, yep, just bought one myself to replace an older Mammut Element, loads more features than I need, but bigger screen and smarter software than the regular Barryvox and certainly a lot quicker than the older Element which was one of the best in its time (around 7 years ago....)

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@KenX, thanks. Trigger pulled

After all it is free

@Weathercam not had a chance to spend a huge amount of time practicing with it. But first thoughts are that its very easy to use, it is quite loud i'm not worried about being able to hear it over the wind etc. I had it on for 3 days and the battery life when i last switch it off said 90%

Great for people who need reading glasses.

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@Russeh, just be careful if only searching for a transceiver, which most do when practising, and you throw the transmitting unit into deep powder, as you might end up taking slightly longer than you'd normally expect to in finding it!

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@adithorp, and others

OK so I'll come clean as it were.......

Bought the Diract Voice for my OH and then whilst out walking dogs thought we'd test it.

Fresh snow-fall and let the OH walk on whilst I placed the unit in the snow.

Great at first with the voice telling direction etc from a long way off, and then gradually honing in on the area, then at 0.2 there were no lower readings than that, which in effect gave the OH quite a large area to search, whilst with my Barryvox the readout goes down to zero as you get closer, as do all the transceivers I've owned.

So did think we might have a dud unit, so I emailed the retailer.

Was testing it, and I was surprised that it only reads to 0.2 and does not go any less than that as my Barryvox Element reads 0.2 --> 0.1 --> 0.0 is this correct ?

Then we had a chat and I sent another email with pictures

Following up on our conversation just now.

We're just back from a good hour testing and the Diract Voice that we have will not go down below 0.2 - whilst the other three all go down to zero, which does seem to be not right as a 0.2 square area is quite large!

So retailer contacts UK distributor who contacts Ortovox and this is Ortovox reply

In a real scenario you will NEVER get a smallest value of 0 and even 0,2 is not realistic.

If a person is that close below the surface you will always see something sticking out. Or you will stand anyway right on top of the person.

This is why we have also as first command “run in 50m search strip width and look out”.

Most of the time people stare only to their device and do not look out, most victims in an avalanche are only partly buried.

Now, I totally get all the above, and I sent this as a more detailed response.

Most people fortunately will never use their transceiver in anger, or even in the type of scenarios encountered on the Euro Avalanche Course (multiple victims / burying packs in deep snow), however they will hopefully train with the unit to understand how the transceiver works, and may well go into a transceiver training park once they are in a resort that maybe has one?

I did some more testing this morning, even using an old school Ortovox F1, which interestingly enough sends an ever-increasing audible signal from 0.2 to Zero, plus I've taken some pictures, so you can see the extent of the area that one would have to search in a simple training exercise / park where all you are doing is searching for your mates' transceiver in the snow as opposed to a body / back-pack etc.

Fine searching that area with the Diract Voice does take considerably more time than using other transceivers that hone in as you get below 0.2 and if you were in a training exercise I'd suggest that the user would become a little deflated at the time it takes compared to others?

I'm not too sure what the solution is to all the above, and I have searched thoroughly across the Internet to determine if this issue has been raised before.

I was also surprised that no mention of the shortest distance is in the manual on page 20?

Then a few more emails exchanged and then this one from Ortovox

Yes I got the feedback, but nothing new to my statement below. If he is making a “real” test scenario to bury the beacon only 30-50cm this won´t show up.

Have you communicated this to him?

Please let me know his feedback after that. We are monitoring the feedback situation on this and currently we have heard this feedback, but after explaining the situation it is clear to everyone and even our mountain guides and international snow safety experts don´t rate this as any issue of concern. Also the consolidated feedback is that there will be no time loss in the fine search in a “real scenario”.

So basically the response is that if you want to test this unit, you really have to create a scenario such as burying a large backpack etc in snow at least 30-50cm deep and then use probes/shovel to find the "victim" once you have 0.2 on the readout.

Again, I totally understand the logic to this, but as I have witnessed so often over the years, most people train just hiding the actual transmitting unit.

And then here in Serre Che, there used to be an avy park (don't know if it's still there) where there were about seven signals you had to find, no way could you do that with the Diract Voice successfully!

In fact some video reviews, such as the FaceWest one go nowhere near even a simple scenario of burying a transceiver in the snow.

And as I mentioned to Ortovox, maybe they should detail this in the manual?

All I know my OH was a tad deflated with her new "toy" and I suspect others might be similar?

When we finally get a decent snowfall then we'll do a full training scenario, if only to appease my Mrs!

Image below shows the area of 0.2 note it's actually more then 20cms and think this is maybe to do with the antennas, in the middle is an old school Ortovox F1 that zeros right in on the transmitting unit below it.

The red shapes are where the Diract voice showed 0.2 left and right and you can see at the top of picture.

I did think that if you find the distance to the left where it increases from 0.2 to 0.3 you mark that, then do the same on the right and then go to the middle as it were??

He reading each side and zero in was how I was taught (on a unit at the time that went to 0.3m) but have found that the Barryvox zeros straight in and the boxing off just cost time to come to the same position.

I can see their point about burial of less than 0.2m (to the unit) is not a major issue and there'd be visual sign plus you'd be very unlucky to miss the target with a probe from that range if it was a person or pack and not just a transceiver alone.

You know it makes sense.

@adithorp, yes but when in the manual they don't advise you that the lowest reading is 0.2 when you're used to counting down to zero, you can understand the issue?

Or even some caveats like they've described above as to how best to train with the unit.

All a tad ironic in that the old Ortovox F1 when used with the ear-piece was so good, legend has it that Pelle Lange of Skiers Lodge La Grave still has the fastest time for searching using one of those in the Euro Avalanche Course.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Absolutely. Throw your transmitting unit into a deep, soft drift and you'd have fun finding it with a min 20cm signal.

A snowHead

I got to disagree. A shovel blade is about 20cm wide. Not sure a higher illusion of accuracy is going to help anyone much.

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

Bought 2 for this years and voice was a big reason for kids to use….the marketing that a voice will calm you in an emergency situation is very sound in my opinion.

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@Weathercam, I can understand your frustration with the transceiver, and Ortovox’s response.

Every transceiver that I have tested has gone down to a zero reading (I’ve never owned a analogue only sound based one), so I agree it is bizarre that the Diract doesn’t. I would also find it disconcerting to use a transceiver that didn’t reach 0.0 when next to the searched for device. To use a Business term, “It’s all about managing expectations", and the Diract isn’t behaving as you expect it to.

My first transceiver was the Barryvox Pulse, and that set the bar, and as mentioned above you just go straight to the buried device, with no bracketing, which tends to upset those who have set the test, and they accuse you of cheating, or not using the transceiver properly (bracketing). The later Intelligent search feature on the Barryvox guided you through bracketing, then told you where to probe, which often meant you hit the buried device with the first probe.

I once bought an Arva Axio transceiver, and that had the habit of pointing in the wrong direction at extreme range, when I raised this with Arva the response was just to move closer to the buried device and it will sort itself out Shocked

Needless to say I sent it back for a refund.

Ortovox’s comments about if you are within 20cm of the device you will be able to see the buried person is also a fair one, but if you are used to using a ‘zeroing’ transceiver you are going to waste extra time as the display goes 0.5, 0.4, 0.3, 0.2, 0.2, 0.2, 0.2, 0.2, 0.3, 0.4, and you start wondering if the thing has stopped working.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

If I was 20cm away from a victims transceiver I think my other senses might take over and would not be concerned about "zeroing" rather than standing on top of them.

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@willski17, when you're training, are you actually burying a back-pack 50cm deep in the snow as in a real-life scenario, especially at the moment as snow cover is so barren!

For "simple" training to understand how a transceiver works, burying another transmitting is the norm.

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I just had some actual experience with one of these today and recalled this thread.

This unit had a nice German lady talking to me, which was awfully sexy, but it's the same transceiver, current firmware, brand new.

We were trying to check a group of 5 people with it. First it seemed horrendously slow to do anything at all. We tried to check my beloved Arva EVO5 with it.... unable to find it at 30cm. Unable to find it at zero cm (which may be something to do with the above design fault). I don't care what Ortovox may say about any of this: their device got a group of very experienced people including professionals to think that one of the two transceivers had failed. We swapped out the Ortovox for a BCA, which of course worked perfectly as you'd expect.

I like new stuff, and sexy new stuff especially, but these just aren't up to the job, in my view.
You can't have transceivers which don't reliably detect.

After all it is free

It's a side note really, but I have owned / used several transceivers which don't "go to zero". In particular, the original Barryvox Opto 3000 only went to 0.3. I'm pretty sure the tracker and other, similar, 2 antenna beacons were similar.

As with @philwig, I honestly couldn't tell you if my current Barryvox "goes to zero" and I use it every day, train with it every week. It's not really relevant to me. We almost never search for transceivers which are just barely covered over. Always at least try to get it arm's length below the surface. Usual tactic - stomp a very deep footprint. Shove transceiver into side of side print. Stomp around a bit more to create confusing mess of prints.

That said, I'm not keen on the concept of this Ortovox unit. I can see why some people might be. Not personally a fan of being told what to do! Laughing

Tried one of these again today, this time in simpler conditions - just two transceivers, the Ortovox searching. You stick it close to the sender, and ...... wait.... and eventually it beeps a bit. So it just about has enough horse power to pick up a transceiver it's touching after a couple of seconds, so long as there are no other transmitters near by.

Doing that the other way around - the EVO5 searching for the Ortovox, is way quicker. You can move as fast as you like, and the Evo just gets more and more excited the closer you get, it's how you'd expect it to work. With the Ortovox you've got to wait a few seconds before moving, and then wait a few seconds more.

I guess I'm typing this because I think the Ortovox voice things are bad, for reasons stated, not particularly because of the voice. I actually quite enjoy being told what to do by nice German ladies [it's perhaps an age thing], but on the other hand I absolutely do not want to be waiting around for her to make her mind up. It's annoying in controlled circumstances, but in a real life incident, I would hate to be using an Ortovox.

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@philwig, good to read that, wouldn't be at all surprised if next season they change settings so they dial down to 0.1 etc

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Ortovox Diract Voice

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