 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi. I have been skiing for 35 years and have suffered for most of that time with finding comfortable ski boots and the issue has recently got worse thanks to diagnosed Achilles tendonitis in both legs. I ski to a high standard (off piste, ski touring) and love the sport… but I have to stop regularly during the day to relieve the pain by taking the boots off (not an easy nor sensible feat when deep in the back country). By the end of the day the Achilles tendonitis is so painful that I have been reduced to tears on a few occasions.
I recently undertook 3 months of physio to try and help the Achilles tendonitis but despite doing the rehab exercises daily for 3 months (no, really I did follow the exercise programme religiously!), the tendonitis flared up by the end of the first morning’s skiing.
I find that I cannot hold the forward lean of ski boots without the subsequent stretch of the calf giving me pain. For example, when I stop, I find ways to stand up straight to relieve the forward tension on the calf (that usually involves standing on one leg to alleviate the other leg and then swapping feet).
The Achilles tendonitis is only triggered in ski boots. I can walk, cycle, run long distances without any problems. The pain that I experience whilst skiing is immediately alleviated once I take my boots off.
Having tried to find comfort in several pairs of different ski boots over the past three years, including boots that have been custom fitted with liners and footbeds, heel lifts etc etc. I am now of the opinion that it’s not the make of boot, but me that’s the problem in any kind of ski boot!
As it seems that it’s the forward lean stance of a ski boot that causes me problems, my latest idea for a solution is to adapt the forward lean of a boot. I would do this by taking a touring boot and having a bespoke and shorter walk/ski mode catch made for the back of the boot. This would reduce the angle of the lean of the foot and mean that I would be in a more normal standing position. One of the reasons I think this may help is that the last time I was fully comfortable in a boot was in a boot that was 10 years old and basically completely knackered. But because it was so knackered it allowed me to stand up straight. It took many years of pain and wear and tear of the ski boot to get to this so I am now looking at a way to fast track to this more normal standing position in a ski boot.
My questions to this forum are:
1. What, if any, would be the impact on my skiing ability and style by implementing this change?
2. Does anyone know of a metal worker (or maybe 3D printer) that could craft this for me?
Thanks! Ideas welcome.
PS Here’s a short list of some of the other fixes I have tried over the years…
Osteopath treatment
Blowing out parts of the boot
New liners
New footbeds
Heel lifts
Daily massage
Unbuckling ski boots every time I am on a lift
New socks… different thickness of sock
Taking up a different sport… such as scrabble. That certainly alleviated the pain in my legs but hurt my brain more 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I reckon i could fix it. But it'll mean a trip to CHX in the new season. no gonna discuss it here though, perhaps a boast but hey, email me at the shop, SOLE Chamonix. Steve
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Powerderpuppy - I don’t suffer your achilles tendon problem, but on my first week way back in 2018, I would have cheerfully removed a couple of toes in order to relieve the pain from the hire boots. I did swap to a pair of gel-sided beasties for the final few days & then promptly bought my own boots on returning to the UK.
Several return visits to the fitters & liberal application of hot-air guns failed to fix the rubbing. So in the end I had three bunions surgically reduced and that’s sorted the issue these past six trips.
So giving due consideration to the biomechanics … have you considered just having your feet replaced with ski-blades, Paralympic style ;-?
Alternatively, a quick call out to ~60k snowHeads for knackered old boots in your size wot you could bash about to your heart’s content, could see you through to the end of your skiing days without having to buy or fix or surgically remove anything.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Powderpuppy77, I reckon standard ski boots work well for perhaps 75% of people out of the box, extending to 95% with simple adjustments, like blowing out the shell or footbeds. But the remaining 5% have problems, like tendonitis, or thick ankles, or bow legs / knock knees etc. Good bootfitters can alleviate some of these, but even they are constrained by the basic boot design.
Have you tried rear-entry boots, perhaps with shin pads or similar to pack out the front? My other half also has really tight calves and generally finds rear-entry boots more comfortable.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Sounds as though you have a restricted range of motion in your ankles possibly caused by tight calf muscles. Have you tried asking for specific exercises to increase the RoM?
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Powderpuppy77 wrote: |
| including boots that have been custom fitted with liners and footbeds, heel lifts etc etc. |
Which shop/fitter did you use for this. I ask not to expose a shoddy shop/fitter (there are plenty) but to get an idea of the depth of the problem. Did you return to the shop to explain the issue or did they shop just give up on it?
| Powderpuppy77 wrote: |
| I was fully comfortable in a boot was in a boot that was 10 years old and basically completely knackered. |
This seems to indicate the problem is entirely solvable. It's a shame you have suffered so long.
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How upright are you looking to go?
Some boots have adjustable forward lean.
My Atomics adjust from 13 to 17 degrees.
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@Powderpuppy77,
definitely something out of the norm going on,
Steve has offered to sort you in chamonix next season so i will not add any further input as i don't want to add any confusion
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| Quote: |
Sounds as though you have a restricted range of motion in your ankles possibly caused by tight calf muscles. Have you tried asking for specific exercises to increase the RoM?
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This would be top of my list of things to check.
Warren Smith does a standing test which you can do yourself: https://www.warrensmith-skiacademy.com/tests/ankle-flex-range/
Often boot fitters will test the range in a seated position with the knee at 90 degrees but that's not so easy to do by yourself.
If you do have a limited range of motion then you can improve it with foam rolling and stretching exercise and a good boot fitter can help by adding some heel lifts inside the boot so you can stay forward without putting undue strain on the Achilles tendon.
So there are some things you can do yourself but a visit to a good bootfitter who can properly assess your biodynamics and take a look at what else might be going on is definitely worth it.
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| olderscot wrote: |
| Quote: |
Sounds as though you have a restricted range of motion in your ankles possibly caused by tight calf muscles. Have you tried asking for specific exercises to increase the RoM?
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This would be top of my list of things to check.
Warren Smith does a standing test which you can do yourself: https://www.warrensmith-skiacademy.com/tests/ankle-flex-range/
Often boot fitters will test the range in a seated position with the knee at 90 degrees but that's not so easy to do by yourself.
If you do have a limited range of motion then you can improve it with foam rolling and stretching exercise and a good boot fitter can help by adding some heel lifts inside the boot so you can stay forward without putting undue strain on the Achilles tendon.
So there are some things you can do yourself but a visit to a good bootfitter who can properly assess your biodynamics and take a look at what else might be going on is definitely worth it. |
whilst you can do it yourself it is a truly terrible test for assessing true range of motion
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
whilst you can do it yourself it is a truly terrible test for assessing true range of motion
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I disagree, It isolates the Achilles tendon, and removes the variables of testing with the knee bent at different angles. However, as long as whom ever does the test, does it the same way, without variables, they will be making a judgement based on the same thing seen over and over.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| CH2O wrote: |
| Quote: |
whilst you can do it yourself it is a truly terrible test for assessing true range of motion
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I disagree, It isolates the Achilles tendon, and removes the variables of testing with the knee bent at different angles. However, as long as whom ever does the test, does it the same way, without variables, they will be making a judgement based on the same thing seen over and over. |
the trouble is when people do this test they allow the foot to pronate and abduct, so it isn't a true reflection of the actual range of motion available, it also isolates the soleus muscle from the gastrocnemius NOT the achilles tendon, the MOST accurate way to truly assess the ROM at the ankle is a clinical straight leg/bent leg test where the lateral column of the foot is locked to prevent the foot from pronating, after that then a seated 90:90:90 test is close IF you can ensure that everything remains square and there is no twisting and lastly if you are really struggling then the wall test as a last resort
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I’m getting popcorn
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You know it makes sense.
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Snooker Loopy!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Interesting how you’re getting an aggravation of achillies tendonitis from ski boots? As a longtime sufferer of the same, a pair of custom, well-fitted boots should be holding your heel snugly in place; thus allowing you to flex the ankles properly and ensure stacked tension.
Without obviously knowing your specific tendonopathy and triggers, there’s a suggestion here that your heel is rising, foot moving about too much and therefore, you’re getting a very much resented calf stretch. Rubbish for your skiing and your achillies.
Are you in custom boots and if not, my suggestion would be heading to a good boot fitter asap to get your feet and boots looked at.
Don’t get me wrong, there’s no magic bullet and this is a very tricky area, but give it a go with a boot fitter.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@olderscot, that test doesn't account for leg length, there are better ways to measure dorsiflection as boot fitter CEM highlighted. As a quick field test with clients I use a phone spirit level app and measure it weighted and unweighted. If outside the norms suggest stretching and flexibility programme and/or send em to CEM...
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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JanetS has a structural issue that severely limits her ankle, she has very little capability to flex forward at the ankle. Warren Smith didn't seem to believe she would be able to ski as well as she does it is so limited. With boots she had previously she couldn't really get any forward pressure without heel lifts, which caused other undesirable issues. For her latest boots she went to CEM who sorted her with the most upright suitable boot available. These ones, unlike her previous ones, were slightly more upright than her maximum forward flex, and it transformed her skiing immediately, she was getting the right forward flex and able to pressure you front of the boot.
So, maybe consult a good fitter about which boots have less inbuilt forward lean.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Powderpuppy77 wrote: |
Hi. I have been skiing for 35 years and have suffered for most of that time with finding comfortable ski boots and the issue has recently got worse thanks to diagnosed Achilles tendonitis in both legs. I ski to a high standard (off piste, ski touring) and love the sport… but I have to stop regularly during the day to relieve the pain by taking the boots off (not an easy nor sensible feat when deep in the back country). By the end of the day the Achilles tendonitis is so painful that I have been reduced to tears on a few occasions.
I recently undertook 3 months of physio to try and help the Achilles tendonitis but despite doing the rehab exercises daily for 3 months (no, really I did follow the exercise programme religiously!), the tendonitis flared up by the end of the first morning’s skiing.
I find that I cannot hold the forward lean of ski boots without the subsequent stretch of the calf giving me pain. For example, when I stop, I find ways to stand up straight to relieve the forward tension on the calf (that usually involves standing on one leg to alleviate the other leg and then swapping feet).
The Achilles tendonitis is only triggered in ski boots. I can walk, cycle, run long distances without any problems. The pain that I experience whilst skiing is immediately alleviated once I take my boots off.
Having tried to find comfort in several pairs of different ski boots over the past three years, including boots that have been custom fitted with liners and footbeds, heel lifts etc etc. I am now of the opinion that it’s not the make of boot, but me that’s the problem in any kind of ski boot!
As it seems that it’s the forward lean stance of a ski boot that causes me problems, my latest idea for a solution is to adapt the forward lean of a boot. I would do this by taking a touring boot and having a bespoke and shorter walk/ski mode catch made for the back of the boot. This would reduce the angle of the lean of the foot and mean that I would be in a more normal standing position. One of the reasons I think this may help is that the last time I was fully comfortable in a boot was in a boot that was 10 years old and basically completely knackered. But because it was so knackered it allowed me to stand up straight. It took many years of pain and wear and tear of the ski boot to get to this so I am now looking at a way to fast track to this more normal standing position in a ski boot.
My questions to this forum are:
1. What, if any, would be the impact on my skiing ability and style by implementing this change?
2. Does anyone know of a metal worker (or maybe 3D printer) that could craft this for me?
Thanks! Ideas welcome.
PS Here’s a short list of some of the other fixes I have tried over the years…
Osteopath treatment
Blowing out parts of the boot
New liners
New footbeds
Heel lifts
Daily massage
Unbuckling ski boots every time I am on a lift
New socks… different thickness of sock
Taking up a different sport… such as scrabble. That certainly alleviated the pain in my legs but hurt my brain more |
I had the same issue.
My Atomic Hawx have adjustable forward lean and they are set at 13 degrees = bliss. Previous shell 17 degrees ouch. You can also adjust the angle of the boot board but I didn’t need to. The liner can also play a part as find my Zipfits have more stuff behind the calf than typical stock liners requiring a more upright shell to compensate.
My boot fitter tells me he can make any boot more upright.
The Head Kore touring boot can go up to 9 degrees upright by changing the walk mode hook so you wouldn’t have to make your own.
I also found over tightening the power strap and top buckle resulted in similar pain. I haven’t repeated the experiment!
Skiing wise I prefer a more upright boot.
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