 Poster: A snowHead
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Going to Tignes in January with 5 children from 6 to 11 years old with 4 weeks tution under their belts. Have read mixed reviews about ESF and Evolution2, does anyone have first hand experience?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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The branch of Evolution2 up in Val Claret is the best ski school we've used (in my opinion and that of our 2 children).
Conversely, the ESF in Val Claret was the worst I've had to deal with.
We used Evo2 in Le Lac too which was very good but not as good as Val Claret.
We haven't used ESF in Le Lac.
One plus about Evo2 over ESF is that the class sizes are guaranteed max 8 whereas some of the classes I've seen the ESF running have been huge by comparison.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Can't comment on ESF but we have used Evolution2 in Tignes on 2 x 1 week holidays for our 3 kids and were very impressed with the organisation and instruction. The staff were friendly and they made sure that the kids were in the correct ability group (they re-arranged the groups after the first morning). Our only doubt was that they kept the classes on the slopes on one particularly bitterly cold afternoon when we would have been happier to see them back at Val Claret for hot chocolates (but, no doubt, other parents would have whinged about paying for x hours lessons and only getting x-?).
We were relieved that we booked and paid in advance when we saw the first day scrum in the booking office.
Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Sat 17-12-05 18:42; edited 1 time in total
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Yes, good point jtr, they are very popular: book ahead.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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No idea of Evolution2, but the ESF have been absolutely brilliant in the 2 resorts I have skied at (Crest Voland and Serre Chevalier). I have had a total of 4 ESF instructors at one time or another, and the standard of instruction has been excellent. It would seem that they like throwing you in at the deep end though sometimes. I don't personally think that's a bad thing, but it doesn't suit all people.
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I personally would never use ESF anywhere. Granted it's not personal experience, but I've seen too many of their instructors on the slopes (almost always the men) who seem more interested in what they look like than the progress of their students. And I've heard too many horror stories of instructors relying on "copy me" as their teaching method and expecting beginner level classes to do more than they are capable of. Obviously not all of them, and some of the girls I've seen working with very young kids seem to have infinite patience and kindness - but enough to be worrisome.
I have also heard (maybe someone can confirm or deny?) that the ESF instructors get bonuses for having more people in their groups. Anything up to 15 in a group is not uncommon, I've heard.
Given the choice, in France I would normally go for a British ski school, not so much for the language but because by definition they have to be some of the most highly qualified instructors on the mountain or they wouldn't be allowed to work there in the first place.
JMHO and could be total rubbish!
eng
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BeckyBB, I've just booked Evolution2 in Val Claret for my trio. I've heard nothing but good about them. They've won all sorts of awards. Have you heard anything negative?
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Evo 2 have it tapped in Cham'. All young guys/gals, modern approach. 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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slikedges,
slikedges,
Have read some disparaging comments about Evolution2 regarding grouping of abilities but mostly negative reports about ESF (instructors posing and shouting at one another during the lessons, teaching large groups of children and very little English spoken) Will now book Evolution2 in Val Claret from reading all positive reviews on this site. Thanks.
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eVO2 WERE CLASS IN lA rOSIERE. sHAME THEY CANT HELP ME WITH MY SHIFT KEY
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Frosty the Snowman, that's because you're still keeping your fingers together.
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admin, Yes - the European Ski School here is not allowed Stagiares this year, so they're all working for the International Ski School of St Christophe - they're both working in the "official" ESI uniform, so it's very confusing. I'm not sure of the politics behind it, but hopefully will find out soon.
eng_ch, I don't think that's true. The instructors are all paid an hourly rate depending on the level of qualification. France is genuinely very egalitarian so when you're a national you're paid the same as any other national. The first in line though are usually the older ones who've been there longer, who are less likely to have moved with the times. It may be that if they book too many people in, they bribe an instructor to take more than 12. In any case 12 is too many...........
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You know it makes sense.
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BeckyBB, Found Evo2 excellent in Tignes le Lac. My son took group lessons (snowboarding) a few years ago and progressed very quickly. My partner and i have also booked some "two-on-one" lessons through them.Our instructor Fabien("but you can call me Fab!") was excellent. Would recommend them. 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| Frosty the Snowman wrote: |
| Evo2 were class in La Rossiere |
I agree.
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Poster: A snowHead
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spyderjon, Frosty the Snowman, Booked lessons with Evo2 in La Rossiere for Feb last week so very pleased to read this
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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kevinrhead, If you are allowed to express a preference, then ask for David. A bit hairy for my liking but very very good.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Ev 2. I have skied with them in Val and tignes. you should get a english speeking instructor. I would go with them rather tham ESF.
Book up before going.
David
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FWIW we used Evolution 2 in Val Claret for off piste guiding (not teaching) in 2004, and found them pleasant and business like. Our guide gave off the sort of reassurance you're looking for on your 1st and 2nd off piste trips, en famille. Doesn't make them good teachers, but I'd be happy to give them a whirl.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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For anybody yet to book, Evolution 2 are completely booked up for the Feb half term week (beginning Feb 11th).
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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I've had lessons with Evolution 2 twice in Tignes - totally brilliant both times. One year I shared a chalet with several families with small children - they all had lessons with Evolution 2 as well & thoroughly enjoyed it. You do have to book up quickly as pointed out above. We couldn't get the lessons we wanted last year, but we were flexible & managed to squeeze in a couple of lessons.
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My wife, brother, and best friend did ski school with ESF at Tignes in 2003 and did not have particularly positive experience. My wife actually quit after two days when the instructor had them take off on ski and ski on one leg only, resulting in everyone crashing quite nastily! Not a technique I remember having to practise. Steer clear would be my view. Wish we'd found Evolution by the sounds of it!
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Another one for Evo 2. Ask for Kev (Val Claret) as he is English, or Aldo (Le Lac) who is a great guide, teaching modern technique and has kids of his own so likely to have some insight into teaching kids to ski (I think)
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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im off to val d'isere in a couple of weeks. half of my group will be first time boarders. would Evo2 be a good option for them to consider and should they book in advance?
personally i was thinking of having some private lessons with Misty Fly thanks to a recommendation on another thread - anybody with experience of them?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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sounds like a non contest to me EV2 wins every time
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Sorry, folks, will have to break the chain for EV2, have just returned from Tignes -Val Claret and was very disappointed with EV2. We had 5 children (6 to 12 years old) skiing with mixed abilities but due to small numbers they were all put in the same group, resulting in some bored and unhappy children. In our party we had a learner who was escorted on the the free bus everymorning to Le Lac (with the children and instructor) and was back in her apartment by 11.40 everyday (lesson times 9.00am to noon). On enquiry was informed all ski schools did this so the instructor could be ready for the private lessons at lunchtime. Have used ESF for many years (since 1994) and have not experienced this new package of pay for 3 hours tuition but only receive 2 hours. Also just to add, on skiing in both Tignes and Val D throughout the week, we observed much smaller groups with ESF and no posing instructors, they also used the lifts in Val Claret at the beginning of the lesson (no bus) and were away at 9.00am whilst EV2 with still "organising" the groups at 9.20am. After this experience will definately return to using ESF for our next holiday in March. Perhaps EV2 function more efficiently in peak times? Possibly ESF have got their act together after bad press?
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Captain Chaos, we went to La Rosiere in Jan 2005 with lots of children, whereupon 5 kids used ESF and the other 6 used EVo2, both ski schools were excellent with no moans about either. My son (who was 5 at the time) still talks about "Alex" the ski instructor from ESF who took them through the trees and let them do mini jumps, and was just really nice to all the kids, he couldn't wait to go to ski school each morning.
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You know it makes sense.
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Thanks, BeckyBB, thats very reassuring and I guess for Evo 2 each resort has a different set up depending on facilities for beginners etc. and Personnel. Sorry to hear of your problems in Val Claret.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Evo2 - my boys have been with evo2 in la Rosiere, Tignes le Lac. All excellent, they enjoyed Tignes the most. The instructors tend to be younger and keener, the class sizes always seem smaller and everything is really well organised. The instructors at le Lac waited with the boys for twenty minutes at lunchtime one day when I got held up on my return to base by broken lifts, even though other parents were there - I thought impressive commitment. Certainly worth booking in advance. I know nothing about ESF in Tignes, but the problem with ESF is the variability between different resorts, as they are all autonomous; from experience (I have used them for private lessons in Val d'Isere too) Evo2 has given a consistent standard of service.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| BeckyBB wrote: |
| Sorry, folks, will have to break the chain for EV2, have just returned from Tignes -Val Claret and was very disappointed with EV2. We had 5 children (6 to 12 years old) skiing with mixed abilities but due to small numbers they were all put in the same group, resulting in some bored and unhappy children. In our party we had a learner who was escorted on the the free bus everymorning to Le Lac (with the children and instructor) and was back in her apartment by 11.40 everyday (lesson times 9.00am to noon). On enquiry was informed all ski schools did this so the instructor could be ready for the private lessons at lunchtime. Have used ESF for many years (since 1994) and have not experienced this new package of pay for 3 hours tuition but only receive 2 hours. Also just to add, on skiing in both Tignes and Val D throughout the week, we observed much smaller groups with ESF and no posing instructors, they also used the lifts in Val Claret at the beginning of the lesson (no bus) and were away at 9.00am whilst EV2 with still "organising" the groups at 9.20am. After this experience will definately return to using ESF for our next holiday in March. Perhaps EV2 function more efficiently in peak times? Possibly ESF have got their act together after bad press? |
I'm afraid our experience of Evo2 was similar though probably luckily not as bad as Becky's. Maybe they're good during peak times when they're willing to engage more instructors, and maybe they're not and they simply don't have enough takers in Val Claret.
During the first week I discovered that there were only 2 instructors allocated to children in VC at this time (actually only 2 allocated to adults also I think). Luckily there were no faster children, so our kids were put in the higher level group (though still a Yeti1 group). However even in this group progress was pretty slow with little distance covered during a lesson. One of the older children in the group was obviously bored and unhappy. I decided not to make a fuss the first week as I thought my kids would benefit from going over old ground anyway.
However for the second week I wanted to withdraw them and instead pay extra for private tuition or get a refund. The requests were denied and my objection that it was plainly ludicrous to consider it reasonable to regard all children under 12 from beginner to experienced skier to be divisible for teaching purposes into only 2 different levels of skiing ability, was brazenly, farcically and unprofessionally refuted at reception. It was only when I insisted on speaking to a senior manager (I think the financial director of the operation in VC) that this point was immediately acknowledged and accepted. She explained that their usual solution was where necessary to mix and match with the groups at Le Lac which had more levels to offer, but that my concern and that of others had been noted and they would be considering the necessity to improve their practice. Which didn't mean a whole lot to me. However she made the point that the next week's children were a different kettle and that my kids may fit into their VC group perfectly effectively. There were a few older kids with a little skiing experience expected so that they might be moving about at just the right level for my kids. I agreed to give it a go on condition that she take a daily personal interest and if it didn't work some other arrangement to my satisfaction would be arrived at.
In the end I think it was just about acceptable for my kids as they were once again allocated to the higher group (this time taught at the Yeti2 level) but once again I thought a couple of my kids and certainly a couple of older children were being held back a bit. I suspect they probably would've gotten more from just getting miles under the skis with a better matched ESF group. They generally had full 3 hour lessons though Evo2 VC bus out to LL for assessment on the first day of any week, and the weather was atrocious the second week so adults and kids from Evo2 and ESF were all bussing to LL to ski Daille. My wife and au pair had adult lessons with Evo2 and the story was pretty much the same. My au pair who had never skied on a real mountain before was allocated to the higher of 2 groups! My wife only had lessons for the first week when she was comfortably and happily the best in the higher group, but would have gotten little from the second week as then the higher group was even slower than before.
What I've learnt is that in the future I'll check how many groups of different levels the ski school I'd like to use is going to be providing when I'm there and if it's not enough, I'll book'em into private lessons.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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slikedges, Go at half-term, they have loads of groups then 
We used 333 in Val Claret and they were OK, I wouldn't rave about them, but they were fine on the whole and my youngest seems to have made some progress and was always happy to go along.
A comment in terms of group size, I counted 13 little ones in one particular ESF class that week, whereas in the 333 group they started with 8 and ended with 5.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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slikedges, I am not sure which fortnight (fortnight?! - you lucky b$%^&*£d) you were in Tignes, but I was in le Lac 1-8/4/06 and used Evolution 2.
We had 2 x 2hr private lessons with a guy called Kev (who organises their mountain biking in the summer) and found him fun and helpful.
We haven't done group lessons for a long time now (the last time was when the children were 15, 12 and 10) and have found it much more fun to ski as a family and have one or two private lessons in the course of a week to give us stuff to work on the rest of the time.
Our experience of ESF has generally not been good (in Flaine, la Plagne, les Arcs, Avoriaz).
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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My general experience of lessons is that once you get much beyond intermediate, you get much, much more from private lessons, (max 4, with the same objectives). Group lessons can be fun for kids if they're in the right group, especially if they're the sort of 'fun' sessions which are offered in some North American (and Euro for all I know) resorts, and useful as child minding, I suppose, but they're not great for learning.
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Nick L, glad that you had a good time. Its always difficult to recommend an intsructor as peoples needs are vary.
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Nick L, I met and spoke to 5 Evo2 instructors during my dealings with the school in Val Claret, none called Kev. Most seemed pleasant enough. I didn't personally ski with any of them but one, Cindy, was particularly highly recommended by MrsS, who is an experienced skier, as a friendly, insightful and effective instructor.
richmond, I think you can get a lot from private lessons assuming the right instructor but I also think these sorts of courses for higher level skiers can be equally beneficial
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FAQ
Good point yes! After all the noise about the French authorities imposing an unlevel playing field to the advantage of the ESF: that's true, isn't it? As only the very big ski schools are allowed to use 'apprentice' instructors on the mountain, if u avoid them, you're increasing your chances of getting a more qualified instructor 
