Best ski course for multiple weeks this season

A snowHead

Hi all,

New to snowHeads so go easy please

I'm a 24yr old skier from London and am hoping to spend as much time as possible this season getting lessons and improving my technique. It seems there are some courses with great package options like UCPA, but I'm sure there are others to consider for the best training possible this season without completely breaking the bank!

Some background:
- I'm very keen to learn as much as possible, don't care about the partying side so much but happy to socialise and have a good time
- My January is totally free to spend out on the slopes, and I might even consider a longer course if they existed
- I'm a level 7-8 on the US system, happy on black runs, done lots of offpiste back bowl skiing at Keystone through the trees etc and had a blast there but looking to challenge myself
- I (maybe foolishly) got myself an Epic season pass for this year... but it seems like the costs of flight, accom, lessons etc in the US are all significantly higher than Europe so it may not make sense for me to head out there to get better.
- Not got any friends coming with me so I'd want to be sure I had people at my level to ski with on off days etc. Not keen on skiing offpiste solo!
- If I had other skiers to stay with (any takers from snowHeads!?) it would obviously drive accommodation costs way down for all of us. Maybe a smarter move would be for me to pick and choose week long trips here and there when I could find people to split room costs with, rather than doing a long 1 month block. Not sure!

Below are some options for courses I've found but I'd love some input on other things I should consider. I'm sure you all have some thoughts on how much I'd improve at, say, UCPA compared to snoworks, so anything like that would be great to hear about! Thanks folks!

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

1) UCPA Jan 4-31 (chaining 4 UCPA trips together)
Course price if I stayed at Val dIsere for example, £3000 + flight + transfers
Option to switch resort midway through the trip, eg could start with 2 weeks in Val d;Isere and then head to Tignes for last 2 weeks
Rough total £3200

2) ICE Val d'Isere Jan 5-Feb 1. 4 Week All Terrain Ski Performance Course
Course price £4795 + flight + breakfast & lunch
Rough total £5100

3) Snoworks Jan 6-Feb 2 (chaining 4 snoworks weeks together)
Course price ~£2100 for the lessons (emailing Phil to check if this is right as I'm not sure)
Accom in Tignes looks like it would be about £1700 for a month if I was on my own - can I get this any cheaper?
Tignes season pass ~£1100
Rough total £5100

And then there are the options courtesy of my Epic pass...

4) Keystone 10 pack of lessons is about £385 but only works Thurs-Sun so I'd only be able to use about 16 lessons across the whole month if I spent £770 on 2 10packs
Flight & transfer roughly £350
Accom is crazy expensive, £3500-£4500 if I was on my own. Surely has to be available cheaper somehow...
Rough total £5700, yikes!

5) Whistler Blackcomb unlimited Max4 lessons pass is about £1600
Flight & transfer would be ~£500
Accom would be £2200 if I was on my own
Rough total £4500

A snowHead

If you're considering Whistler, have you looked at the instructor courses e.g. Alltracks? I've heard really excellent things directly from people who've done them, and it'd be the same people you're with the whole way through - so better socially than e.g. multiple UCPA weeks back to back (which are a good option for variety!). You don't have to become an instructor, it's just very high quality training - one of the pricier options though Smile

Personally I'd go to Whistler - as I did that for 2 weeks a couple of years ago, solo, and had the time of my life. I did join in with SCGB activities though, sssshhhh wink

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

I can vouch for the ICE course. We did it in 2016. It runs alongside the longer BASI L1, 2 and I think even some level 3s. Chances are you’ll be put with BASI groups or skiers at least some of the time-especially for technique lessons- as well as skiing with those just on the 4 weeks or shorter course, but you get to bail out on classroom stuff and first aid and go skiing instead! So you will be there with others on courses who are in residence for even longer. There’s lots of technical teaching - it’s not just hooning about the backcountry. As I recall, the first 2 weeks are full day tuition, then it moves to half days. Offpiste week fits into it, but things can be jiggled about if the weather causes problems. The tuition is superb-and Mark Jones, Dave Cowell, Rupert T and Ru G are also great guys. They are endlessly enthusiastic for what they do-it’s infectious. If there was fresh snow on the piste, Mark Jones would be the first to say -sod the lesson, let’s blast down the powder for a lap or two.

On the down side, if you don’t upgrade your accommodation, things are pretty cramped, and even at the ripe old age of 24, you might find the possibility of lodging with 2 other 18-21yo “gap yah” types in a typical French studio a bit tedious. Not everyone fits that demographic-plenty more in mid 20s and above. Even the kids are quite fun. We were middle aged ski bums and upgraded our accommodation to a 1 bed apartment, but even if you can’t afford that, you can book to share with just one other, (for extra money) and they do tend to organise things so that you’re room mates are more likely to be compatible. The evening meal option is handy (located in various restaurants in the resort) particularly given the size and kitchen facilities in an apartment. However, that’s not to say the catering is always top notch, but it’s one less thing to think about.

Bottom line is-we loved it. And yes-we did improve, loads. Cool

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I can only comment on UCPA and Snoworks...

UCPA you get full days of instruction. I think it’s four and a half days in total. On the off piste week’s it more guiding than instruction. Depending on the instructor you might get a few pointers, but it’s mainly learning by doing! There’s usually a good mix of people, so your bound to find people to ski with. None of the centres I’ve been to have been raucous, the bars are normally pretty low key.

Snoworks instruction is half day, Monday - Friday, although you can double the sessions but that’s double the cost (it might be worth trying to negotiate!). The instructors are very good indeed and would no doubt move your technique on. I think they have a mainly middle age+ client base which might impact on finding people to ski / hang out with.

Whichever you decide, it sounds like you’re going to have a fantastic winter!

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Thanks for the replies all Smile

@fixx - I actually had no idea that Alltracks was even an option! I was under the impression that because Vail operate the mountain, I'd have to get lessons through them - guess I have more options to add to the list now Twisted Evil

I did look into some European instructor courses (eg BASI L1&2 at SnowSkool, Basecamp, or Icesi which a friend of mine did) but figured that right now, I have no intention of teaching at all so probably best not to get weighed down by exams and things. Was the thing you did their "2 week ski improvement course" in early December? The main other one they have that stands out to me is their 6 Week Off Piste Ski Course which looks heavenly, I love the idea of spending that much time focused off piste (85%!), but I may have to sell a kidney or three to finance it! As you said, definitely an expensive option, but a very tempting one nonetheless!

@Perty definitely keen on technical teaching when it's needed, so this sounds really great. What sort of level were you when you went in, and where would you say you were when you finished the course? Also, do you know if they typically put you in rooms with people of your skill level? On all the half days I'd want to be skiing with new friends from the course so would be good if we were all at roughly the same stage in our skiing and were all in the same building etc.

@eversolazy Would you say I'd likely learn a lot less with UCPA compared to snoworks? At that price it's really hard to beat (how the hell is UCPA so much cheaper than everywhere else?!), but if snoworks is going to set me up with skills for life that I might not get from UCPA, then the price difference is worthwhile for me. I think the half day/full day thing just depends on what I book too, there are discounted 18-25 UCPA weeks which have half day lessons instead of full, so I could save even more there, and snoworks look like they have full day weeks on their site also. Either way, like you say it should be a fun winter - just a bit torn between what feels like way too many options right now haha!

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You said you've done "lots of offpiste back bowl skiing at Keystone through the trees etc". So what's your objective of further tuition? What are the things you're hoping to be able to do you don't already?

On the north American options:

1) I've heard through some Colorado locals Breckenridge has a season-long "lesson plan" that are quite inexpensive. Same instructors and same peeps. AND, it's NOT even listed on their website! You'll need to contact the ski school directly! (I contacted them 3 years ago when I was doing a season, but was told I was too late to sign up. So you may want to drop them an e-mail ASAP to investigate that option) Yes, lodging at Colorado is crazy expensive!

2) Whistler: the MAX 4 as the name implies, has a 4-1 student-instructor ratio. I bet you get very personal attention from the instructor! Whistler also have the terrain variety to "challenge" you! Especially if you could get lodging for a month for £2200, you'd be crazy NOT go there!

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

I’m sure that with both Snoworks and ICE you would get a much higher standard of technical coaching than with UCPA. There is also the advantage of skiing with the same group of instructors for the whole four weeks. Like you say, UCPA is good value. You’re staying in a hostel, so it’s a very different experience with its own advantages and disadvantages! With the cost saving at UCPA could one option be having some private instruction with ICE or Snoworks or TDC on the changeover days, or midweek, then consolidating those during the rest of week? Just another option!

After all it is free

If you already have the epic pass I'd do Whistler and take CSiA l1 and 2 courses direct while I was there.

I’m sure that with both Snoworks and ICE you would get a much higher standard of technical coaching than with UCPA. There is also the advantage of skiing with the same group of instructors for the whole four weeks. Like you say, UCPA is good value. You’re staying in a hostel, so it’s a very different experience with its own advantages and disadvantages! With the cost saving at UCPA could one option be having some private instruction with ICE or Snoworks or TDC on the changeover days, or midweek, then consolidating those during the rest of week? Just another option!

*Ski* the Net with snowHeads

@abc fair question! First, I think there's still a little work I could do on my basic technique to iron out some bad habits - e.g., being in better control at speed on moguls is an area I feel like there's infinite room for improvement in which I think I'd struggle to do efficiently without a trainer nudging me in the right direction. I'd love to start doing some bigger jumps too. I imagine there's still a lot I could learn about skiing off piste when things get steeper, terrain gets more variable, conditions aren't ideal, etc.

Second, a long term goal for me is to be able to feel comfortable going ski mountaineering, and to get to that point I definitely think I need a better "feel" for the mountain. While Keystone's bowls are lovely and there's plenty to learn from them, I feel like a longer course elsewhere might be a good way to get more experience in unfamiliar territory, in a way that is still relatively safe. I'm really curious to hear though - do you think my best bet for getting that experience would be to just get out and do it, lessons unnecessary? I think there's a decent chance that what I'm looking for is just more time on the slopes, more days of differing conditions, more experience with how terrain can change off piste, etc, but I'm not sure how best to get that experience when I'm going on a solo trip. Hiring a guide might be a much better fit for me, but I know absolutely nothing about whether that's more/less expensive, if there are better ways to go about it, etc. How easy is it likely to be to find local folks in the same resort who are at my level and have the same goals? Little bit in the dark with the best approach here really, I just know that I don't want to be reckless and for me that starts with not skiing solo Little Angel

Thanks for the heads up about the Breck lessons, I've sent them an email and will report back once they respond Very Happy

Is it rare to be able to find accom. in Whistler for that price? The place I was looking at is a pod hotel so space is definitely very limited, but wouldn't be an issue for me, and seems to have a lot of solid reviews. Definitely more palatable at that price than spending upwards of £4k for a hotel in Colorado!

@Dave of the Marmottes, by taking CSIA L1 & L2 direct, do you mean take just the exams themselves rather than doing a full course with Alltracks/similar? I could definitely do that, although I feel like if I did ever decide to get qualified I might as well do it closer to home and stick with BASI. Is there any real benefit to getting the qualifications if I don't intend to teach right now?

Also, do you have any experience with what the teaching is like at the Whistler ski school (if I was to get the unlimited lessons pass)? Unlike Keystone, the lessons look like they run every day so I should always have a group to ski with, but if I wanted to venture off and do some off piste stuff I guess I'd need to make some friends, so hopefully the local Whistlerians are friendly. I'm also not sure if a whole month of standard ski school lessons might get a bit dull - I definitely don't imagine we'd necessarily be charging through the backcountry like we might do on one of the alltracks courses or similar. Not sure what to expect from them really

@eversolazy seeing as I would be chaining multiple courses from snoworks together if I went with them, I figured it might be with different people, but I guess until I hear back from Phil I won't know anything for sure. Would definitely be good to keep the same instructors, I'm sure it's a lot easier for them to teach when they already know you too! I like the idea of throwing a snoworks course into the middle of the UCPA stuff too, could be a cool way to get a feel for their teaching style and then I could do something longer term with them next year or something.

So many options...!!! snowHead

snowHeads are a friendly bunch.

With reference to the ICESI course-As far as room mates-you’re not put in a room with people of the same standard, but you may be put with someone of similar age. People do swap rooms about as the weeks go on. Everyone is based in the same building at La Daille, (Pierre et Vacances) and, as I recall, there were probably at least 40 doing various courses. It’s very easy to make new ski buddies and the communal meals are good for that too. Most people are on their own, so there’s a really good social side to the whole thing. We still ski with a friend we made on the course 3 years ago-she was doing BASI l2 - not with the intention of teaching, but as a means of improving her skiing and as a 10 week break from work. As a 30 something, she was in our group with the more mature skiers, for quite a chunk of the time, this included both those doing the 4 weeks, and BASI courses. But as the weeks go on, they do also sort the groups according to ability too. I think it was a maximum of 6-8 per group.
As to improvement-everyone is different, some improved more than others. The feedback is directed to your own technical needs, with video analysis and a debrief within the lesson using the videos. It’s really helpful. I also like the fact that, if one form of instruction to sort out an issue doesn’t work, they may try another-we all learn differently.
The big technical changes were built from the bottom up-starting with balance. My biggest joy by the end was being able to really carve long turns with proper separation and angulation, so I could feel (or thought I could feel) the tops of my boots brush the snow. I lost the A frame stance. I was better off piste. Technically we were just better. If you use the insideout scale https://www.insideoutskiing.com/level.html - Mr P and I went from being fast level 8 skiers to a level 10 (on a good day). I confess I could do with a refresher though! Our friend passed her BASI l2 at the end of her 10 weeks, and has been going off to Tignes each November to do a week with Rupert Goldring-mostly skiing at level 3 standard. Everyone raves about skiing with Ru G-the one instructor we didn’t get a lesson from.

snow reports

Whistler ski school is great and if you sound like you'll be in the upper spectrum of group lessons so probably have a L3 instructor minimum. If there is an unlimited lesson pass I'd get on that and there's a fair chance you'd end up with virtually private lessons if you shoot for afternoon slots.

You know it makes sense.

I can vouch for the huge benefits of skiing 5 sessions per week with the same 2 or 3 instructors over 4 weeks. They really get to know your strengths and weaknesses, and how you learn (we were actually with Mark Jones for at least 50% of the time). It was a cumulative process. I'm not sure that "standard ski school lessons" delivered with a more ad hoc variety of other punters and a wider range of instructors would get the same results.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

@MrRoflWaffles, all too confusing.

You basically have a month, right?

And you don't sound like you want to become qualified - if you do, you'll mostly be on piste with most courses, aiui.

A month's a bit short to just get somewhere and ad hoc, I feel. If it was me, I think I'd be inclining towards UCPA ... as if (as suggested) actual teaching is minimal but you're being guided, that could be cool.

On finding folks in resort at your level, IME the tricky thing is finding people (myself included) who actually know what their level is... I have a couple of chums who I would never, ever ski with. Becomes tricky finding an excuse...

A snowHead

I'm in a similar position to except I'm already sorted for Chamonix but I found there are not coaching schools for instructor prep really. I'm getting a few recommendations of names and will try getting some sort of personalised coaching plan for the season

A snowHead

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

@MrRoflWaffles Keystone accommodation you can do cheaper than that surely. Craigslist or a hostel? Try staying in Frisco or Silverthorne and 'commute'. Flight at £350 inc lugguage is a bargain.

Bit off-piste but my take:

If you have the Epic Pass, use it!

There's a hostel in Park City, Utah. They allow people to stay for up to 4 or 6 weeks I think. Bit steep for a hostel but if memory serves me correctly it'd set you back around £2-2.5k , I guess if you call them they might cut you a long stay deal. Instant access to group of advenutre punters to ride with (it's not a party hostel). With luck you'll learn to spot and hang with strong riders.

For courses try contacting Park City resort and ask if they do any courses like this one at Jackson Hole. https://www.jacksonhole.com/steep-ski-camp.html you might also have luck with the local ski touring/mountain guide companies.

You are based in London so UCPA and the European trips all doable on shorter timeframes. Use the length of your trip to go somewhere further away.

Help!!

Best ski course for multiple weeks this season

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