 Poster: A snowHead
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A bit of a random one, but, does anyone have advice on finding work abroad in or close to the mountains?
I'm a late 20's ACCA qualified accountant. I'm applying for roles in Geneva in places like the UN, WHO, UNICEF etc as they have English speaking roles.
Has anyone been in a similar situation, and can offer any advice?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Good luck with the UN etc in Geneva. My experience is the roles have largely been allocated internally but they have to advertise externally and go through a "mock" interview process. It is a bit of a closed shop.
I would cast your net more widely to private organisations. Check out the job sites like jobup.ch
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Munich.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I work in Salzburg as a graphic designer. The process of applying for jobs here is much the same as it is in the UK. Jobs are almost always advertised online and you apply by email. I went for a few interviews, all German speaking. They do ask for proof of your qualifications and previous employment here, not sure if it's the same in CH. And of course there is the large Brexit-shaped spanner in the works, which is why I did all this over two years ago.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| queenie pretty please wrote: |
| I work in Salzburg as a graphic designer. The process of applying for jobs here is much the same as it is in the UK. Jobs are almost always advertised online and you apply by email. I went for a few interviews, all German speaking. They do ask for proof of your qualifications and previous employment here, not sure if it's the same in CH. And of course there is the large Brexit-shaped spanner in the works, which is why I did all this over two years ago. |
The Brexit issue is frustrating. I only qualified last summer, so it's only now i'm in a position to look and work abroad, and it's not the best of timings. That said, CH not being in the EU may change things, especially as there's a specific visa you get if you can get in at the big NGOs. It's just that getting in that's proving tricky!
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| swskier wrote: |
| It's just that getting in that's proving tricky! |
If you really want to work for one of the NGOs the route most people take in Geneva is to work for a co. that works for one of the NGOs then network with the people there to get recruited. As I said above, for many job adverts they've already filled the post internally but have to go through the motions. Of course nothing stops you applying but the process can be pretty long winded and time consuming and you might be better spending your time elsewhere. Geneva is not a bad location although the road to the French ski resorts (where all the Genevois seem to ski) can be pretty busy at weekends. There are better towns to live mind - Munich (as mentioned above) is livelier and in the Swiss Romande Lausanne is better than Geneva although you wouldn't want to commute between the two.
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| davidof wrote: |
If you really want to work for one of the NGOs the route most people take in Geneva is to work for a co. that works for one of the NGOs then network with the people there to get recruited. As I said above, for many job adverts they've already filled the post internally but have to go through the motions. Of course nothing stops you applying but the process can be pretty long winded and time consuming and you might be better spending your time elsewhere. Geneva is not a bad location although the road to the French ski resorts (where all the Genevois seem to ski) can be pretty busy at weekends. There are better towns to live mind - Munich (as mentioned above) is livelier and in the Swiss Romande Lausanne is better than Geneva although you wouldn't want to commute between the two. |
I'll take a look in to the "back door" route. One of the main reasons for Geneva as a location is because I can get 2/3 flights a day back to Bristol at which i'm only 20 minutes away from home. Munich I can't get flights from Bristol, and this is one of the sweetners with my partner, that if we live abroad, we can get back easy enough.... Appreciate that easyjet might change their routes, but as it stands, Geneva gives that option.
Also, whilst my french is pretty limited, I know a lot more French then I do German.
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| swskier wrote: |
Also, whilst my french is pretty limited, I know a lot more French then I do German. |
ok that makes sense. Bear in mind that Geneva is eye wateringly expensive to live as well... but where isn't these days?
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Like Davidof says the NGO jobs rarely go to external candidates.
You can apply as much as you like, but some of the criteria and experience they require can only be gained by working in (or closely with) an NGO in the first place.
Try UEFA: they are recruiting like fury ahead of Euro 2020:
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Have you also tried looking in Lausanne as well? The university seems to gives it a more informal, multi-cultural and international flavour. And it's only a short train ride to GVA. And you never know, there might be something in Montreux or anywhere along the lakeside 'strip' of towns e.g. UEFA in Nyon, as mentioned.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Most people working in international organisations such as the UN speak more than one language well.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Plently of large oil trading firms in Geneva that need good accountants / operations staff. Also a lot of private wealth management firms.
One point that is often overlooked, if you want to live on the French side of the lake (waaaayyyyy cheaper), you should be aware that only those working as a frontalier in Geneva are exempt from french income tax.
For example, say effective French income tax rate is 35%, and Swiss is 15%, if you are working in Nyon / Lausanne, you would have to pay the difference each year to French inland rev. Whereas you don't pay anything extra if employed in the canton of Geneva.
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| polo wrote: |
Plently of large oil trading firms in Geneva that need good accountants / operations staff. Also a lot of private wealth management firms.
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Yes, I worked on a big project for Addax petroleum. Nice offices.
if a frontalier you'd also need to look into the tax implications of any spouse, although the OP seems too young to be married.
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You know it makes sense.
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Thanks for the advice all.
I've looked and applied for a role at Total, and will look into further oil firms.
Have also looked in to Lausanne, as I'm not strictly tied to Geneva, just struggling to find english speaking roles there at the moment.
It's a bit of a pipe dream, but I thought it best to try all avenues of knowledge.
Long winded story, but I did meet/have a call with someone who works at the WHO via a friend of a friend, she did pre warn that it's very hard to get a role in the NGOs but to plug away and keep applying.
The search will continue, and in the meantime, I'll keep attempting to learn French!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| swskier wrote: |
The search will continue, and in the meantime, I'll keep attempting to learn French! |
not that they really speak French in Geneva  , more some kind of bastardized dialect.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I must know 20+ frontaliers working in Geneva, they all operate exclusively in English.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@clarky999,
Thanks very much for the links, I'll take a look at those over the next few days.
Innsbruck not quite as easy in terms of nipping home, but not the end of the world, 3 flights a week I think with easyjet to Bristol.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@swskier, tin my experience you won't be 'nipping home' that often. There's tons to do in the mountains, you'll soon find your diary filling up. Compare that with sofa surfing visits to the UK where quite frankly the mood is less than pleasant, you'll find plenty of reasons not to go, least of all the cost. Don't make ease of access to the UK a deciding factor. Find the right job in the right location for you. Make a new life for yourself. Emigrating is about looking forward, not back.
Good luck. I sincerely hope Brexit does not scupper your plans.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| polo wrote: |
Plently of large oil trading firms in Geneva that need good accountants / operations staff. Also a lot of private wealth management firms.
One point that is often overlooked, if you want to live on the French side of the lake (waaaayyyyy cheaper), you should be aware that only those working as a frontalier in Geneva are exempt from french income tax.
For example, say effective French income tax rate is 35%, and Swiss is 15%, if you are working in Nyon / Lausanne, you would have to pay the difference each year to French inland rev. Whereas you don't pay anything extra if employed in the canton of Geneva. |
The flip side of this is that if you are married with children, you are better off working in Vaud than Geneve as you are taxed in France where your tax is divided into parts depending upon the number of dependents you have.
So as a couple one of whom works in canton Vaud:
You pay zero income tax in Switzerland, but your French tax is halved, ( 2 parts) with 1 or 2 children its (3 parts) with 3 children it is 4 parts.
This means that a frontalier with a husband / wife and 3 kids in France you pay a quarter of the standard rate of 22% so effectively 5.5% .
In both cases you need to contribute to the French social system through CNTFS at about 10% of brut salary.
Also Swiss child benefit is much higher than French, and if you work in Switzerland (even though you live in France) you claim that benefit where you work.
For 3 children you get 1050 CHF per month, in France you would get EUR180.
So as a frontalier, working in Vaud (Nyon, Lausanne etc..) is better if you have dependents, but without you are better off working in Geneve.
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@WindOfChange, guess it varies a lot depending on exact circumstances, as friends of ours have to write a big cheque every year to french tax authorities.... they have 2 kids, live in Thonon, wife works in Luasanne and hubby geneva / international.
Also some of the big firms in Geneva seem to be able to negotiate the rate of income tax their employees pay....some I know only pay 5% income tax, regardless of kids / status.
For social charges, it's not compulsory to stay on the french system even if you live in France. At the start of every new employment in Geneva you can opt into the Swiss healthcare system. This works out better for those on large salaries, with bonuses or even equity, as you pay a flat rate of about 1000 chf a month for a family of 4, instead of 10% of your global income (france).
Child benefit payments are incredible here. It's literally like having another job...and none of it is means tested. So even if you earn 150k+, and have 3 kids, they pay you another 12k a year, back dated to when you arrived.
The overall net benefits over working in UK/France are astounding....higher salaries, much lower tax, generous child and unemployment benefits, and a currency thats 20-30% higher vs EUR and GBP over the last 5-10 years. Weather, lakes and mountains being the icing.
Ohh....and slightly off topic, but with the negative interest rate madness in Swiss, a mate of mine just got a cheque for 45k from his bank. They pay you money to take out a mortgage. Messed up.
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| Quote: |
A bit of a random one, but, does anyone have advice on finding work abroad in or close to the mountains?
I'm a late 20's ACCA qualified accountant. I'm applying for roles in Geneva in places like the UN, WHO, UNICEF etc as they have English speaking roles.
Has anyone been in a similar situation, and can offer any advice?
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Worth trying the private banks in Geneva. Also Zurich has a lot of of financial institutions (banks/asset managers/insurance) - not sure about Bristol flights though. PM me if interested in more info. I know they all speak English. Not sure about in the office though, you may need to show willingness to learn French or German. Nestle is nearby, I think in Vevey. Oil firms, including trading houses, as mentioned. Don't forget CERN. If there are flights to Basel, there's Pharma out there. Novartis and the likes.
Commuting Geneva or Zurich to UK (not sure about Bristol) is doable, but you will get bored of it - there's a whole community of commuters. It's fun for 2-3 years and then becomes a grim life. Avoid late EasyJet flights to London at all costs, I've only had horrible experiences with delays. Renting in Geneva town centre is a nightmare, housing crisis there just and much, if not more than London.
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Reply moved to the right thread! Too many windows open at the same time .... thanks for the heads-up. That's what happens when I skip my 3pm nap ...
Last edited by After all it is free  on Thu 26-09-19 16:44; edited 2 times in total
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@LaForet, I think you mean to reply to the thread where they guy is graduating next year...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Bit of a thread resurgence, but after 3 or 4 years of looking for and periodically applying for roles, for the first time i've been offered an interview!
I'm still expecting a rejection around visas, but fingers crossed.
It's a role with Amazon based in Munich. Not 100% sold on Amazon as an employer, they don't exactly have the greatest reputation, but, if it gets me a visa, i'll certainly go for it for a while and see what happens!
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@swskier, Good on your CV if nothing else and a foot in the door - they'll want their €'s worth, any time for winter sports? Culture pretty aggressive, bit different than working for a NGO I'd suspect. Hope it goes well.
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@Markymark29, i'd like to hope i'll be getting my weekends, but perhaps i'm being naive 
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You know it makes sense.
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@swskier, good luck with the interview!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| polo wrote: |
| I must know 20+ frontaliers working in Geneva, they all operate exclusively in English. |
Whats a frontailers, border patrol or something google says?
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Poster: A snowHead
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| swskier wrote: |
Bit of a thread resurgence, but after 3 or 4 years of looking for and periodically applying for roles, for the first time i've been offered an interview!
I'm still expecting a rejection around visas, but fingers crossed.
It's a role with Amazon based in Munich. Not 100% sold on Amazon as an employer, they don't exactly have the greatest reputation, but, if it gets me a visa, i'll certainly go for it for a while and see what happens! |
Congrats on the interview and good luck!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@always29, @BobinCH, thank you both
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@swskier, good luck! After nearly 7 years in Basel I still love it here and have absolutely no regrets or intention to return to the UK.
| Sarny wrote: |
| polo wrote: |
| I must know 20+ frontaliers working in Geneva, they all operate exclusively in English. |
Whats a frontailers, border patrol or something google says? |
@Sarny, A frontalier is someone employed in a border region of Switzerland but living on the other side of the border in a neighbouring region of France (the border areas are clearly defined). In German speaking parts the equivalent term is Grenzgänger. Mostly they will speak the local language at work 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@Sarny, a frontalier (in that context) generally lives in France but commutes into Geneva to work (presumably nobody does it the other way round). At the big Bardonnex border crossing there's a special line for "frontaliers".
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Gämsbock, sorry, had the thread open when I did something else (made marmalade....) and hadn't seen your reply.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| pam w wrote: |
| @Sarny, a frontalier (in that context) generally lives in France but commutes into Geneva to work (presumably nobody does it the other way round). At the big Bardonnex border crossing there's a special line for "frontaliers". |
I may be asleep when I go through the frontier but I don't remember seeing the frontalier lane since CH entered the schengen zone.
Good luck with the interview @swskier, I don't think even Amazon can overwork you too much due to German employment laws. Generally Munich is pretty relaxed - the Germans tend not to spend all day on social meejah at work but don't do a lot of free overtime either. It is a different culture to the UK.
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| Quote: |
I don't remember seeing the frontalier lane since CH entered the schengen zone.
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it might have gone. After a while one stops looking....
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@valais2, i'd love to, and have friends that have done exactly that to Kelowna.
Unfortunately, the GF doesn't want to move that far. 
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