My son has done the Stelvio Gran Fondo a couple of times and from his comments I gather that getting the clothing right needs a bit of planning even if the forecast is good. The early start can be very cold, the tunnels on the Stelvio itself can be cold and wet and if it is a good day, the upper slopes can be hot before it gets cold again at the top – so arm and leg warmers (and lightweight jacket – depending) and gloves are a good idea. The event is well organised and they will take your spare kit up to the top so you can get changed into some warm (and windproof) stuff for the descent (watch out for the surfaces in the tunnels).
As for the overall course, he found it tough but not as tough as the Maratona but that probably varies from person to person.
As for the Mortirolo, I watched Armstrong (yes, I know!) being asked what was the toughest climb he had ever done and without hesitation he replied “the Mortirolo”. It seemed to still haunt him. (He only used it for training because he didn’t compete in the Giro.)
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@BobinCH, It’s difficult to compare Alpe DH and Stelvio as standalone climbs in this case to gauge which is more brutal.
I did the Stelvio GF long course in 2016... it’s a great day out. Stelvio climb in this case comes at the end of the day after having conquered the harder side of the Mortirolo which goes over a steep concreted over ‘goat track’ for the last few Kms. This route was created for the 2012(?) Giro in order to stay on the bormeo side of the valley. Following the Mortirolo descent there is a long valley drag back to Bormeo to the start of the Stelvio climb.
IMO Providing you are fit for the event the heat/weather is the determining factor. You will also require a 32 sprocket on the back for the Mortirolo. I did it on a 11-28 and regretted it on the goat track and all the way up Stelvio.
FWIW I think the Marmotte is much harder as the Alpe comes after 160kms with includes the Galibler. It’s probably the hardest Euro gran fondo - I did the Tour De Mont Blanc 1 day GF this year (300k/8000m) and can say Marmotte, and probably Stelvio, felt hardrer as they both have hard climbs at the end.
I am planning to do the Swiss Marmotte in 2019 and finishes in Verbier which finishes on @BobinCH’s doorstep and looks hard on paper, something like 7000m climbing over 220kms.
Last edited by snowHeads are a friendly bunch. on Sat 1-12-18 18:40; edited 1 time in total
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I did the Marmotte and the Maratona on a 27 because I asked for a 29 and didn't check. Found the maratona harder due to the heat.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@Ozboy, brilliant, just what I was hoping the Snowheads collective would provide! I did the Alpe after the Galibier where I’d gone too fast... good lesson in that pacing is everything! Fortunately I’ve got a 34’ cassette (which saved me on the alpe!). Sounds like the Mortirolo is brutal but the challenge is too good to turn down! Now I need to look into the Swiss Marmotte! If you need somewhere to stay let me know.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
@BobinCH, blowing up on the Alpe is quite common. It took me over 90 mins to get up the Alpe at the end of Marmotte - probably 20 longer than normal. Think of the Stelvio GF as doing the Alpe first and then having to go up the Galibier to finish. Key is not pushing too hard up the Mortirolo, impossible at times as so steep, - Your 34 sprocket will help you moderate your effort.
A good simulation close to Verbier is to climb up Champex Lac, at tempo pace, from Martigny, then down to Orsieres, and then up the Grand St Bernard, at endurance pace, to the top. The summit is arond c. 200m elevation short of the Stelvio. Then back roll down to a waiting car in Martigny.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@Ozboy, so right about cassette choice. For any of the long Alpine/Pyrenean events I'd have a 32 - although I also have a compact front chainset which seems to be going out of fashion on new bikes.
I'd also highly recommend being as light as possible. I'm normally around 82kgs but getting down to 77 for last year's Marmotte was a godsend. And you look better in the photos too
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@narbs, I operate around the same weight range. Get to about 85kg in winter (race track league + skiers diet) and start focusing on weight loss from April to get to around 77kgs. Any lower I risk illness. I also did last year’s Marmotte but struggled, especially with the varying weather, I blew up on the Galibier and died on the Alpe - was aiming for c. 8 hours but finished in 9+ hours. Hardest day ever on the bike.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
The Mortirolo is hell, possibly the worst climb I've ridden. Did the old GF Pantani a couple of times, Gavia then Mortirolo, always an absolute toil getting up it and descending to Aprica was sketchy! Stelvio is a nice climb, not too steep just long and has a fun descent. Enjoy!
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
3 weeks to go. Training slightly problematic on the hills!
Still loads of snow and nearly June!! Sound counter intuitive but best training for the big mountains (when there are no mountains) is done on the flat. The valley roads west of Martigny should be good for 1 hour tempo efforts done as intervals which is essentially the effort you will be doing going up the Stelvio.
Don’t forget to get a 32 cassette which i think is essential for the Mortirolo and the Stelvio when you will be tired. I did it in 2015 with overall time of 8:20 hours inc stops. Mortirolo was 1:20 hours and Stelvio 2:00 hours. Had to walk for about 100 meters up the steepest part of the Mortirolo (the concreted over goat-Track) due to other walkers blocking the road. I had a 28 cassette and was in denial about getting a 32 which was regretful as my club mates of similar ability with a 32 did better.
And a final point is be mindful of the cutoff time in order to start the Stelvio climb (if this applies to you). The marshals are strict and will remove numbers / timing chips from bikes that arrive after the cutoff. Ie minimise faffing at feed stops etc.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Quote:
Still loads of snow and nearly June!!
Pretty normal, Giro is often disrupted by the white stuff.
@BobinCH, Do you have an MTB? MTB climbs are obviously slower so you might not be above the snowline after an hour of climbing and even if you are, MTBs deal with snow better
Round our way Galibier 2642 and Izoard 2360 will be closed till end of month but still plenty of others if you go low into the valleys you can still notch up 1200m climbs or more.
Col de Granon probably the hardest climb in France, and yes Italian climbs such as Finestrelle way tougher, is open to 2200.
MTB can give more options on steeper trails so good for training, and mtb being heavier and friction etc also helps for when back on road bike. Backside of Montgenevre there is an old military road and did that last week nigh on a 1000m and that was 250 short of summit as dogs were fecked.
Back in the UK mates manage to train for the likes of the marmot and etape without the big climbs and spank me
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@Weathercam, I reckon Alpe D’Huez at the end of the Marmotte is the toughest climb I’ve done... a lot to be said about putting a tough climb after having been over Glandon and Galibier. Also rate Col de Joux Plane near top of my list (Samoens sth facing side) as relentless on a hot day and lots of horse flies - closest thing ive come across in the alps to a Pyrenean climb. Your U.K. mates are probably hammering on the flats / rolling terrain where they can sustain tempo for long periods.
After all it is free
After all it is free
@Ozboy, plan was to try and get off in one of the earliest groups to be able to take the first 400m climb and the Mortirolo as slow as possible without running out of time... Other tips welcome! The picture is of the Aigle - Les Agites Climb 1200m ascent over 14km’s which has 3km’s in the middle at 12% which is about the steepest sustained I can find round here. Even with a compact and 34 cassette above 10% is a grind at 85kg and only 4 weeks of training under the belt... Mortirolo with 6km’s between 12 and 14% will be brutal. I guess I’ll be at 6km/hr on the steep sections so estimate 1h40 for the 12km and then 25km of Stelvio... Cyclotour du Léman on Sunday - flat and fast for some more km under the belt.
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@BobinCH, The start is super fast with groups of mostly head-less Italians race down the the valley at 40+ Kph and will not hesitate cutting you up. The start area is along long and narrow alley ways in the old town and there is no order - just turn up as early as possible and join the pack and hold your nerve and mind your front wheel in the run down which probably goes on for 45 mins. I personally wound't worry too much on trying to train the super steep stuff, just focus on 7% slopes which allow you to stay in a good HR range and good cadence on a 34 - anything steeper will probably take you HR too high and you will compromise training - your leg strength from skiing should get you over the steep stuff on the day. Cyclotour du Léman on Sunday should also be ideal preparation - try not to sit on too many wheels and do long stints in the wind keeping HR in the [climbing] midrange.
There are two climbs I recommend near Martigny which are both around 7% and should be open:
I've done these on last year's Tour du Mont Blanc, but descended the Forclaz instead of going up which is super fun and fast. I am hoping to to the Marmotte Valais this year which finishes in Verbier but finding child care in Chatel is proving challenging as its a 5:30am start.
to the Forclaz and also Champex which are around 10K and nice to train on.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ozboy wrote:
I personally wound't worry too much on trying to train the super steep stuff, just focus on 7% slopes which allow you to stay in a good HR range and good cadence on a 34 - anything steeper will probably take you HR too high and you will compromise training - your skiing leg strength should get you over the steep stuff in the day.
Interesting. I have a 7% 11km hill out the back door which I’ve been doing 2 or 3 times a week for the last few weeks. Was looking for longer and particularly steeper as it’s the Mortirolo that worries me and the tackling Stelvio on tired legs. Why does high HR compromise training? It was a big ride on Sunday and felt fine to go out again on Tuesday night? I assumed the harder I pushed the quicker the lungs and legs would adapt!
@BobinCH, Doh! Overlooked Verbier climb.. i think really steep long sections will just knacker your legs for the next session.. with the time remaining you are better off doing quality mid-range stuff and getting good endurance miles in. Am certain you will be good on the day on the really steep part of Mortirolo (based on the amount of skiing in your legs). FWIW I was sh!tting myself about the Mortirolo but wasn’t too bad in the end other than the goat-track section - which is basically a long steep concrete strip to keep riders on the Bormeo valley side of the mountain.
You are very fortunate living where you do - massive kudos!
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@BobinCH, like I said Brit mates in the UK can make do with preparing for Mountain fondos just by the quality of their training in the UK, short sharp steep hills and intervals, some make do with Zwift for 90% of the training!
As for the day just don't get carried away and take off too fast, which has always been my mistake, hopefully June not as stupidly hot as July Etapes/Marmot which is when I go to pieces.
I'm currently heading down to Southern Spain so hope to get some Sierra Nevada rides in, today was superb in Red Wine Fitou country!
Really this thread should be in roadbikes etc
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Ozboy wrote:
Am certain you will be good on the day on the really steep part of Mortirolo (based on the amount of skiing in your legs). FWIW I was sh!tting myself about the Mortirolo but wasn’t too bad in the end!
That’s reassuring thanks!
Down the valley in the Summer so the back door ride is Blonay to Les Pleiades but for sure we’re lucky with the local hills to ride.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
BobinCH wrote:
Other tips welcome! The picture is of the Aigle - Les Agites Climb 1200m ascent over 14km’s which has 3km’s in the middle at 12% which is about the steepest sustained I can find round here.
ok it's a bit late now but I would go out to that climb and repeat the steep bit a few times, try and maintain the same speed on each repeat and you should be able to ride harder than you would on the Mortirolo because you get a break between each repeat. Ride home.
Do you use an HRM or Power Meter? This can help with pacing, especially early on. Otherwise common sense.
Make sure you feed and drink properly.
Wheelsuck in any valleys - you need to find a big group to do this - you are not a domestic so don't feel you have to do your turn on the front or burn people up.
I think you biggest enemy will be yourself, given your exuberance and nature. You'll need to control this and it will probably see you through at the end.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@davidof, brings up a good point about feeding. I religiously consume 50-60 grams of carbs an hour. That’s 2 gels which my stomach can hapilky deal with. More solid food is better early on. Look for bars and gels that have 25 grams a serve which is becoming the standard - a whole banana also around 25 grams. I don’t bother with energy. We are around the same weight. This gives you 200 cals which is about right to fuel the riding above zone 2 which uses glycogen. Zone 2 and below gets fuelled from your fat reserves. I am not scientific but this is what I have picked up over the years.
I normally down a tin of ambrosia rice pudding for breakfast which has a good balance, easy to digest and quick to sort out while pre-event faffing.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
@davidof, @Ozboy, good advice. Thanks! Used some SiS aqua gels which were great.
Good warmup last Sunday round the lake. No hills but pushed quite hard on 2nd half and felt really good.
Nice views
Racing the rain clouds...
Smoother ride with the 25mm tyres
Glad to see the finish line in Lausanne!
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Nice event, finishing in Lausanne is a good idea. The Lavaux vinyards are some of the nicest cycling country... in the world. If you get over that way.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
One week to go. Long ride this afternoon or short 45 min time trial?
45 min time trial focussing on solid climbing effort - either a gradual mountain road or in the valley. You know you can ride the distance following last week’s ride.
Fortinately / Unfortunately for him (not sure which applies) the sportive route turns off the main Mortirolo road a few Kms from the top and follows a concreted-over goat track in order to stay on the Bormio side of the valley and skips the summit - however this stretch is steep, awful surface and large draininge channels cutting across the road at regular intervals. I had to walk about 100m due to congestion and no traction in the steep middle of the road due to the wet leaves. They built this section of road for the 2012(?) Giro where the riders followed the same route to finish of top of Stelvio. The overall average is around 11pct but there is a 1km section of flat road 2/3 of the way up.
Wonder if the top or Stelvio is open given they have taken the Gavia out of the Giro due to avalanche risk?
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Wonder if the top or Stelvio is open given they have taken the Gavia out of the Giro due to avalanche risk?
Hopefully will h an additional week and warmer temps they can get it open. Showing closed at the moment...
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@BobinCH, This is the Mortirolo climb from 2012 Giro which follows the sportive route - the concrete goat track section starts from 38:45 mins from which point it gets harder!!
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