 Poster: A snowHead
|
Haven't started a topic before, but thought you might be interested in a recent experience.
I do work in the holiday business but I have no axe to grind - honest!
Recently some friends of mine booked an apartment with an owner in Serre Chevalier. Some of the folks drove while some went by Easyjet to Grenoble. Last Thursday week it was departure day for the folks that went with Easyjet. It had been snowing all night but they decided to follow the ploughs up the road to Col de Lauteret en route to Grenoble. However they were not allowed over the top. Then it was too late to get to Grenoble so they missed their flight and had to overnight at the airport in a hotel and get back the next day. I think there were 4 people in the party and it cost them £500 extra, although Easyjet did I believe make some allowance for their problem.
This weekend and last weekend I understand that our company had similar problems with snow, the traffic, road conditions, and avalanches, and more than 150 people missed their flights home this week and more than 50 the previous week. In such situations we hold our aircraft for as long as we are legally allowed ie crew flying time, to make sure we get the people home.
For those that are left behind because of time constraints we give them accommodation, and then if necessary charter extra aircraft to get them home the next day. Monetary cost to our passengers £0.00!!! except for their own incidental expenses.
Because of knock on delays left over from this weekend we still needed to sub-charter some aircraft this Monday often because crews had run out of hours or aircraft were wrongly positioned. The cost to the company was well into 5 figures. Some of the untold stories of package holiday operators I suspect.
I think the learning experience here if you are DIY,and if the weather gets rough, make sure you have a working exit strategy if you need to travel to an airport. When you pick your resort make sure there is more than one way out. Our friends in Serre Chevalier should driven out the night before either via Gap or via the Frejus tunnel.
Remember low cost airlines are not benefactors to the travelling public - it's your problem if you miss the flight, whereas the tour operator has a duty of care to their customers to get them home at no extra cost ( if they are a half decent outfit).
Perhaps some of you might like to share some similar good and bad experiences that you all have had either on DIY Ski or with Tour Operators.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
Wise words David, I agree that DIY is like being on the mountains anywhere - it's up to you (no one else) to sort it out.
But that's part of the fun of course.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
DAVID SNELL, Sorry, but that's never going to put me off DIYing. I think we all have to accept that our fave sport takes place in a mountain environmemt and, over a lifetime of sliding around, you're bound to get the odd occasion when you're snowed in and held up and it's going to cost a bit. Actually, that's all part of the fun and more like a proper travel experience... as Scott famously said "I'm going out and I may be some time" - that's the attitude I think we should be aiming for. Frankly, no amount of money would persuade me to hang around on a tour ops bus "waiting for the Manchester flight" or putting up with some rip-off avian-flu-infested chalet slum and a hapless apologising spotty tour rep. I've done the maths, experimented with my own money, made the value judgement year after year and always go for a scheduled flight and book direct with the hotel of my choice. It's better and often way less dosh. Hell, I love being snowed in.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
Now I think about it, it wasn't Scott who said
| Quote: |
"I'm going out and I may be some time"
|
it was the other fella (Oates?). Anyway, it didn't happen on a package holiday.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
And can we be any more confident a TO would sort us out given these exceptional circumstances.......I have my doubts.Some 3000 folk were bedded down in the sports halls of Bourg St Maurice last weekend courtesy of,it would seem,the local Mayor.Sorry,I find it difficult to believe yer average rep could sort out that.Going the other way,easy to picture being stuck on a coach being fed corporate bull by an increasingly panicked yoof!I will always remember what a time served Crystal rep said to me in Andorra........"If you knew 1/2 of what I know,you'd never go on a package holiday again".I've been DIY ever since....you know it makes sense 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| DAVID SNELL wrote: |
| Perhaps some of you might like to share some similar good and bad experiences that you all have had either on DIY Ski or with Tour Operators. |
TO's
Crystal-Rooms changed at last min,unforseen circumstances(bull,they had overbooked)Lift passes not avaliable as ordered,had to sort myself.Later found out rep had lost booking sheet,so didn't bother.Left standing outside hotel at 3am,for a coach that turned up at 5am.Rep got his hotels mixed up.Stayed at a 'quiet family orientated hotel',directly opposite the 24/7 bar cum disco.Complained,only to be told "well it is quiet-during the day".
Neilson-Ripped off over lift passes.Yes,priced same as resort,but once laminated told we could only pay by UK credit card,at their exchange rate!!
Left sitting in coach whilst waiting for flight to arrive.It did,2 1/2 hrs later(during which rep was no where to be seen)Arrived in resort at 10pm,by which time reception was closed.No problem said rep,keys in door.NO!!Rep had vanished,frantic phone calls,finally got in room around midnight.
I could go on.......ridiculous pick up times,endless pestering over special offers and tickets to the bloody fondue evening.Mis information,disengaged reps,and feeling as if half of your holiday is spent on a coach,at an airport,or both!!
DIY
I can honestly say I have yet to have any real incidents.Got the wrong car once at Geneva,but it was a better model so held back from complaining  Sure,something is bound to happen one day?But at least I will have direct involvement,and wont have to rely on the services of someone who just wants to see the back of me,and will tell me virtually anything to achieve that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
DIY: 2 years ago there was about a metre of snow fell in the alps suring our stay. Nothing stopped. The night before our return to the UK 2 inches fell and the whole country ground to a halt. Geneva airport was awash with stranded/delayed passengers. Our flight was delayed too (BA) but our names were called and when we actually got to our plane we were the only passengers on board. This private jet home was on a positioning flight and we were on it because we had an onward flight to the Isle of Man (with BA), so they would have had to put us up in an hotel.
Cant see a TO doing that.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
DIY: Easyjet cancelled a flight from liverpol to geneva whilst we were in the queue checking in. Cancellation due to snow at Luton!? No other flights to Geneva or any other nearby aiport that night and as we were only going for a long weekend we ended up driving.
TO: no real bad experienc but received a first hand account of the misery suffered by a group stranded for 13 hours on a snowy road on the way to Andorra.
Honestly tho' I think there are merits in both provided you go in with eyes wide open. There are many people who go with TOs and expect to be spoon fed and I think DAVID SNELL, that your friends had only themselves to blame for taking the less than sensible route of going over the top after a night's snowing
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
Have DIY'd for some time (it greatly reduces the dreaded single supplement). Only time I had a problem was in Salt Lake City a couple of years back when the plane developed a fault just before we took off (thankfully it didn't happen int he air), so we taxied back to the gate, and were off-loaded. Everyone was then taken through to check-in, where the airline sorted us out with alternative flights. Due to my connection, that meant an overnight stay in SLC, so they put me up in the best hotel in town. (oh, and it always pays to be polite to check in staff, and others, as they do remember, and can be more helpful)
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
DAVID SNELL, Cant agree more. Let someone else do all the work, have all the hassle, and provide great service. People just need to move away from the big operators and look towards the many companies out there that offer great service at hard to beat prices. Again it is whatever works for you.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
| Quote: |
TO: no real bad experience but received a first hand account of the misery suffered by a group stranded for 13 hours on a snowy road on the way to Andorra.
|
All the fault of the operator of course. We control the weather, didn't you know? In fact I personally organised this week's dump of snow just because I thought it would be good for a laugh to see 2600 people kipping on school floors for the night.
I see a lot of criticism on here of 'spotty youth' doing a bad job. People might want to consider that if they were prepared to pay more for their holidays the companies providing the service might have a bit more to spend on staff wages/accommodation and therefore attract more older/experienced/responsible people. It's a fact that the smaller ops charge more, pay their staff more and don't take teenagers straight out of school. They also get better feedback regarding service and standards. You might all like to mull this over and draw the obvious conclusions.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
|
Lizzard, I agree. One of the TOs I've used in the past is Ski Independence, and they have provided a considerably higher level of service and overall quality than the more popular ones, and they aren't that much more expensive.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Lizzard, no of course the TOs don't control the snow but since the luggage of the Andorran refugees turned up 2 days after the guests which meant no ski/board gear for said guests. Some reps sorted out replacement clothing to enable their guests to ski other reps couldn't be bothered and lied to their guests on the reasons, it all depended on which rep was on which coach (as it was recounted to me).
| Quote: |
People might want to consider that if they were prepared to pay more for their holidays the companies providing the service might have a bit more to spend on staff wages/accommodation and therefore attract more older/experienced/responsible people.
|
And that is a rather naive statement to make. If people were prepared to pay more then the major TOs would pocket the difference and the staff wouldn't get any more neither would the job attract older more experienced people. The business doesn't work that way. The major TOs are pretty good at packing them in and releiving us of our cash as it is why would they want to change the status quo.
|
|
|
|
|
|
brian
brian
Guest
|
DAVID SNELL, for the amount we saved going diy versus a tour op in Feb half term, I could've just about chartered my own plane to get us home if things went wrong 
DIY - touch wood, no problems yet.
TOs - switched appt from nice to grotty due to overbooking
- rep never turned up at gendarmerie when I had been involved in collision and had to go along to give a statement, luckily my wife has reasonable French.
- the usual hanging around for hours "waiting for the Gatwick flight" or leaving at 5am for an afternoon flight.
I realise I'll end up with a major hassle one day, but I've so much holiday pleasantness built up in the bank through going diy that it would have to be a nightmare to cancel it out.
Increased flexibility, better value for money, car hire versus a bus, not being treated like a brain dead sheep ....
The only way I'd go with a TO now would be for a stupendously cheap last minute deal.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| halfhand wrote: |
Lizzard, no of course the TOs don't control the snow but since the luggage of the Andorran refugees turned up 2 days after the guests which meant no ski/board gear for said guests. Some reps sorted out replacement clothing to enable their guests to ski other reps couldn't be bothered and lied to their guests on the reasons, it all depended on which rep was on which coach (as it was recounted to me).
| Quote: |
People might want to consider that if they were prepared to pay more for their holidays the companies providing the service might have a bit more to spend on staff wages/accommodation and therefore attract more older/experienced/responsible people.
|
And that is a rather naive statement to make. If people were prepared to pay more then the major TOs would pocket the difference and the staff wouldn't get any more neither would the job attract older more experienced people. The business doesn't work that way. The major TOs are pretty good at packing them in and releiving us of our cash as it is why would they want to change the status quo. |
There are good quality TOs who charge more and offer a better service. No idea what their profit margins are, but they seem to keep going.
Lizzard is right; you pay peanuts, you get monkeys, but that does not absolve the usual suspect TOs from responsibility even if it were true that TO's charge peanuts. The TOs offer certain services and give customers certain expectations, and regularly fail to provide and live up to them. The fact that they are exploiting customer's cupidity doesn't excuse them. In the end, it's up to us. If people stop using the crap TOs, they'll change or go out of business. At the moment, they seem to be getting worse, like most other bottom of the heap service industries, so presumably people want to save that £150 pppw or whatever and will put up with crap service to do so.
In fact, it's not really true that TOs charge peanuts. Last minute deals can be very good, but brochure or near brochure prices aren't. To Europe at least, it is often cheaper to DIY. The crap TOs offer little that's worth having other than transport and acommodation, so why are they so expensive? They're not paying top $ for knowledgable, resourceful reps or good quality transfers or classy grub and wine in their chalets. They're not providing the services of well informed, competent reservations staff. According to Lizzard on another thread, they're making miniscule margins. What are they doing with the cash?
Last edited by Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name: on Thu 9-03-06 12:11; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
I have only skied the once, and that was with Crystal. Apart from a nightmare trip home due to adverse weather closing Chambery (and no-one was lying about THAT) it all went very well and everyone was very helpful. No spotty yoofs either, just people with a passion for snow. To be honest, the prospect of DIY scares the life out of me; I have three children needing daycare so that my wife and I (and the kids really!) can have a proper break, and it's hard enough finding a holiday for five at half-term. You need to book at least a year in advance. I don't fancy self-catering at mountain prices with five appetites to satisfy. However I am going to the EoSB (sans la famille) so maybe I will pick up some useful hints and tips then and perhaps give it a go in 2008...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| Quote: |
If people were prepared to pay more then the major TOs would pocket the difference and the staff wouldn't get any more neither would the job attract older more experienced people.
|
Chalet host wage with big TO: about £200pcm
Chalet host wage with little TO: just under £400pcm
Staffing level with big TO: one host for up to 12 guests
Staffing level with little TO: one host for up to eight guests
Average age of staff with big TO: about 20/21
Average age of staff with little TO: about 25
Actual examples, though obviously I can hardly name names.
| Quote: |
What are they doing with the cash?
|
Spending it on: ABTA/ATOL bonding, insurance, wages, rent, flight charters, coaches, repairs and maintenance, fire upgrade work, food, wine, logs, vehicle rental, diesel, staff accommodation and lift passes, phone bills, utilities, feeding people stuck in Bourg St Maurice overnight (which presumably constitutes force majeur, so they'll never see it back again) ........................... where did you think it all went?
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
Interesting, the mayor's office said they provided brekkies FOC for the BsM stranded.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| Lizzard wrote: |
| Quote: |
What are they doing with the cash?
|
Spending it on: ABTA/ATOL bonding, insurance, wages, rent, flight charters, coaches, repairs and maintenance, fire upgrade work, food, wine, logs, vehicle rental, diesel, staff accommodation and lift passes, phone bills, utilities, feeding people stuck in Bourg St Maurice overnight (which presumably constitutes force majeur, so they'll never see it back again) ........................... where did you think it all went? |
I don't know, that's why I asked. Where do you think it all goes? It shouldn't all be going on what you list.
When I book a hol DIY, I have to pay, directly or indirectly, all the things you list except ATOL bonding (I have insurance to cover being stuck in BStM) and it's still cheaper. The only things that I can think of which I don't pay but TO's do are reps' salaries (apparently paltry), booking agents' salaries (also apparently paltry) and TO shareholder dividends (also paltry judging by the margins you mentioned elsewhere, but I suppose that the return on capital could be good). In exchange for my (less) money, I get a better flight, better accomodation, better food, better drink, better transfer. I don't get someone f'ing up my reservation (I can do that myself). So, where's the money going?
Based on my own experience, I'm not particularly anti TO, and to N.America they seem to provide, usually, a significantly better deal than I could do myself (although they always manage to cock up something at the booking stage). To Europe, though, they seem to provide pretty lousy vfm. Those tiny margins puzzle me; either they're not tiny, or the TOs need to find someone who can run a business.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
richmond, she left out marketing/advertising. I mean, consider the amount of brochures that are produced, the TV adverts, etc. They all have to be paid for somehow.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Wear The Fox Hat, true, but most people from whom DIYers buy have marketing costs. Probably less than the TOs, although airlines seem to lay it on pretty thick.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I recently went to St Sorlin D'Arves at half term week. Due to one of the party (2 adults, 1 child) not flying I drove.
Cost of DIY package Apartment sleeping 6 - £450, Ferry - £50 - Total £500
Cost of Crystal self-drive package in apartment for 4 - Total £1450
Obviously there were other costs to be considered but these would have been identical for either option. No contest really! I fail to see what, if any, additional benefits I would have got from Crystal.
On the other hand I went to Banff for New Year with Neilson for a very competitive price and I don't believe I could have matched it had I arranged things myself.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
I've used a variety of TOs, and done DIY skiing.
Basically I think that if you leave it to the last minute, the TOs generally come up with better deals than if you were to DIY. I suspect that this is because the people who pay full price subsidise those who get last minute bargains, but the nature of the business means that every unfilled bed affects the bottom line.
I also find that with the TOs you get what you pay for, if you go for the cheapest then you'll get a very basic service, if you pay a little more for an independant operator then you'll generally get a better, more enthusiastic service, and at the very top end it really will be a holiday with no worries at all, apart from working out how you're going to pay the credit card bill. Mark Warner are pretty good in this respect, Scott Dunn are outstanding.
DIY you have more contol over where and when you go, generally you get a better deal, but it can be quite time consuming to organise, and stressful, especially if it's for a big group.
Generally I wait until the very last minute and try and get a bargain from one of the higher end TOs, as I find that this is the least stressful and most cost effective way for me to travel.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| richmond wrote: |
| (I have insurance to cover being stuck in BStM) |
Are you sure your insurance would cover this sort of thing? Very few cover delays due to the weather, although many do cover delays caused by avalanches and on the journey to (not from!) the airport. Who is the policy with - it might be worth a look!
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
| RobW wrote: |
| richmond wrote: |
| (I have insurance to cover being stuck in BStM) |
Are you sure your insurance would cover this sort of thing? Very few cover delays due to the weather, although many do cover delays caused by avalanches and on the journey to (not from!) the airport. Who is the policy with - it might be worth a look! |
Rob, I think he ws being a little economic with the truth, I expect his "insurance" is a mate of his who lives near by...
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| Wear The Fox Hat wrote: |
| RobW wrote: |
| richmond wrote: |
| (I have insurance to cover being stuck in BStM) |
Are you sure your insurance would cover this sort of thing? Very few cover delays due to the weather, although many do cover delays caused by avalanches and on the journey to (not from!) the airport. Who is the policy with - it might be worth a look! |
Rob, I think he ws being a little economic with the truth, I expect his "insurance" is a mate of his who lives near by... |
I wish. Yes, I am sure (It's a Centurion policy arranged through Amex, but I don't think it is offered anymore. It also provides N.American hire car insurance, and paid for itself easily when we skied in N.America.), although if there are several hundred people stranded, insurance isn't going to be much immediate help. I imagine that the mayor of BSM throws his doors open to all, not just TO customers. Even if one had to pay for an extra flight home very now and then, you'd still expect to save with DIY.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| richmond wrote: |
| (It's a Centurion policy arranged through Amex, but I don't think it is offered anymore. It also provides N.American hire car insurance, and paid for itself easily when we skied in N.America.), |
I think it's still available. I have the same policy through Amex.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
In addition to the Les2A debacle, which seems to have included just about every TO f&ck up listed above, we also booked to go to Morzine through Thomson (booked before we went to Les2A). About 8 weeks before we were due to leave they wrote to us and told us they had 'lost the contract with the hotel' so we would have to move to another. We had already changed (through them) to this hotel 'The Tremplin' as it was right by the slopes. The one they were offering was not. We cancelled for a full refund but were left with having to find our own hotel with 8 weeks to go.
Fortunately we did find one, but it was not as convenient for the slopes.
Clearly if we had booked directly with the hotel ourselves, we would not have 'lost' any contract and so would have stayed where we wanted.
DIY always for us, and self-drive whenever possible.
I do agree with thepoints made about paying peanuts and getting monkeys, part of the problem (as with many aspect of modern consumerism) is that the largest suppliers look for every opportunity to shave cost, and hence be price 'competitive'. As consumers we need to realise that cheapest is not always best and vote with our wallets for the quality we think is appropriate. I don't go DIY for the cost, of courseit can be more expensive than the cheapest deals through TO's. I don't drink the cheapest wine I can find, or eat at the cheapest restuarants when I'm away either. 'Value' is more than just 'low price' quality is a major component.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
AxsMan, well said.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
I am now a converted DIY skier - Save on average €500 per person per week of Skiing - Buy yourself the best annual travel insurance you can find and this will cover you for most of the things that a TO claims to cover. eg my travel insurance will cover missed flights due to weather (Although thankfully have never had to use it yet
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| Quote: |
Buy yourself the best annual travel insurance you can find ....
|
Couldn't agree more, and this echoes my point about paying for quality, I notice you don't advise buying the CHEAPEST travel insurance you can find!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| Quote: |
Save on average €500 per person per week of Skiing
|
Blooming heck, does that mean they pay me!!!.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
DIY: Easyjet cancelled our flight to Zurich last year - ended up driving to Switzerland! A great adventure... Other than that, no probs...
TO: Inghams double booked us in Austria and we were forced into a hotel a 30 mins walk from the chair...
On a trip to Courmayeur the pre-paid rental prices were higher than those in resort...
I much prefer DIY - you don't have to shoe horn into a Sat-Sat holiday, no nightmare transfers waiting for another flight to arrive or trawling around all the hotels in the resort picking up other passengers. But best of all, if the snow is great and you want to extend your holiday it's easy, just got to find a hotel and change the flights. TO's are just not that flexible...
I wouldn't be that upset about being snowed in a resort
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| Quote: |
| But best of all, if the snow is great and you want to extend your holiday it's easy, just got to find a hotel and change the flights. |
Doesn't anybody else work around here? 
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
|
|
|
|
|
| nuttyprofessor wrote: |
| I much prefer DIY - you don't have to shoe horn into a Sat-Sat holiday, |
Is this true? One of the problems I always encounter when trying to arrange a DIY trip is that hotels will still only take bookings Sat-Sat (or Sun-Sun if that is the local changeover day).
Case in point is the EoSB - making it a long weekend, arriving on the Friday. Having to stay Friday night down in Moutiers because no accommodation in Val T is interested in taking a Friday night booking (or even Friday to Tuesday) - only Admin Travel gives such flexibility!
It seems that it is only the smaller resorts that will contemplate a booking for anything less than 7 nights, and even then there are no guarantees - prior to recent Arabba trip e-mailed all hotels and B&Bs in the village and quite a number replied to say that would only take a seven day booking.
How do others of you cope with this problem?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I find France is a problem if you want to stay less than 7 nights, although we haven't found any Sat-Sat restrictions in Tignes or Courchevel...
For a long weekend, we always go to Switzerland, I've found the hotels there are generally more flexible...
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
Dave Burt, not a problem in US resorts.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Dave Burt, I had this problem recently when trying to book for Ellmau, Austria. Because of all the good snow, very little late availability left, and nothing other than Sat to Sat.
However, I have on previous years been able to book say Friday to Monday (10 days) especially in early April - after Easter. I imagine this only applies to small numbers, if you're in a big group I should think forget it.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
