 Poster: A snowHead
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Don't recall if this slide was mentioned here, but the circumstances and recent developments are interesting. No fatalities fortunately, but three people were caught up in it, and a lucky escape for one. A couple of reports in the Dauphiné, so far...
Happened in the Peclet sector (piste Christine). As happens more and more as the days get longer, people tend to linger on in the mountain restaurants, skiing down well after the domain has been officially closed. The slide actually happened on the piste itself. The run had been closed all day for security reasons, but the netting was removed by the pisteurs to allow the machines through after the domain closed.
The question being debated at the moment - and the skiers involved claim that they bear no responsibility at all, according to reports - is whether it is the job of the pisteurs to not only check that the runs themselves are clear of skiers and boarders at the end of the day, but also the mountain restaurants (and possibly even off piste sectors).
The skiers have initiated legal proceedings according to the Dauphiné. One was buried up to the neck, has had lung problems since from inhaling snow. The two others were only partly caught up in the slide, were able to extract themselves quickly, and spotting their friend, were able to dig her out by hand. But reports suggest that the first call to the PGHM was made at 1740, with the first pisteur arriving at 1759 (and no survival blanket). There was no medical examination. They were eventually taken back down to the resort at 1930 by the pisteurs in temps of -17°C with one survival blanket between them.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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PG, French law is a funny thing, but I'd say it's not looking good for VT.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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You should email my missus, she's a French judge so would probably have an opinion. I doubt she would be too sympathetic to these people but I may be wrong.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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davidof, well, the Le Grave case springs to mind.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Missus can't comment as she may be hearing this one.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Tim Brown wrote: |
| davidof, well, the Le Grave case springs to mind. |
Yes and there are other precedents. A closed piste must be clearly marked as such. I suspect it will all depend on the local bye-laws and whether these were sufficient. For example there may be bye-laws governing when mountain restaurants should close, often this will be at the same time as the ski lifts serving the restaurant close so it may be the restaurant that is at fault.
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davidof, yes, law is a funny old thing.
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| davidof wrote: |
| Tim Brown wrote: |
| davidof, well, the Le Grave case springs to mind. |
Yes and there are other precedents. A closed piste must be clearly marked as such. |
Reports suggest that it was - as long as the domain was open that day. But then the netting was removed to allow the piste bashers through. Can't have been long after the pisteurs had chased stragglers off the pistes though, if those caught up in the slide only called the secours at 1740 - AFTER they had dug out the buried skier. And that is what the papers are suggesting happened.
Doesn't really make sense to be obliged to continue to indicate that a run is off limits after the domain has closed though, surely.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| PG wrote: |
| Doesn't really make sense to be obliged to continue to indicate that a run is off limits after the domain has closed though, surely. |
It does seem like common sense not to be skiing on pistes much after the lifts have closed but I guess laws and regulations are there for people without much common sense. Given that people skiing on runs after the domain is closed and the piste bashers are running is pretty common you would have expected a big, organised resort like Val Thorens to have this angle covered from a legal viewpoint. Still don't hold your breath waiting for any court case, it may take years to grind through the French system. The criminal case for teh 1992 Val Thorens avalanche was only resolved in 2000. When the missus was a lawyer she was dealing with cases that would make Bleakhouse look like swift justice.
BTW if anyone is at Val Tho the bye-laws governing ski lift and piste use should be posted at the bottom of the ski lifts if they want to take a look.
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davidof, makes you wonder where a resort would stand if someone skis into a line of skidoos or a piste basher. What sort of time would you draw the line, in terms of responsibility? The 'easiest' route would be to pass responsibility onto the skier as soon as the domain has been closed off by the pisteurs. But if further leeway is needed, how long's a piece of string? Half an hour? An hour, two? That could mean that the machines wouldn't be able to start work until the stipulated amount of time has elapsed. That the skidooers wouldn't be able to set off on their runs until mid evening (a few companies would be up in arms there).
Anyway, as you suggest, I shan't be holding my breath...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Quote: |
whether it is the job of the pisteurs to not only check that the runs themselves are clear of skiers and boarders at the end of the day, but also the mountain restaurants (and possibly even off piste sectors).
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In the UK the Restauranteur does have a duty of care to the customers which does extend to ensuring they are not harmed when leaving the premises therefore If in the UK you should be chased out of the restaurant before the slopes close (if there is no alternative route down). 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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out of interest, was it snowing heavily, or if not, how did the piste slide??
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| gregh wrote: |
| out of interest, was it snowing heavily, or if not, how did the piste slide?? |
Hi Greg,
It snowed heavily on Saturday 11th and Sunday 12 with some very strong north winds the avalanche risk was 4/5. It was obviously dangerous off-piste. Sunset was around 18h30. Given the conditions it was foolhardy to ski down after the piste patrol and I think that as had been said above the restuarant should perhaps have warned their clients. There are some lessons to be learned, it will be interesting to know what the details of the complaint are.
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