Insulated jacket or shell?

A snowHead

Hi,

I was wondering about insulated jacket vs shell. Atm i am wearing an insulated jacket with base layer, but sometimes it is a bit warm... With the hard shell, it might be more versatile, but without insulation, how do you layer for colder weather? You add a mid layer, breathable fleece or sth like this?

A snowHead

As you might imagine, you adjust the base and mid-layers according to your personal comfort needs in the given conditions. On a warm spring day, you might go as light as only a long-sleeved polyprop or merino wool t-shirt. On the harshest, mid-winter days, you might need 3 layers, including a down puffer. It all depends on how much you feel the cold.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

As Ulmerhutte above.

A hard shell lets you remove or add layers; an insulated jacket might be less faff, especially if it has pit zips to cool down.

If you run hot, a shell may suit better.

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I only ever use my 1994 mountain equipment goretex for skiing. With tshirt, thin fleece. And if it's cold (sub-5) a slightly thicker fleece. Also sometimes some pants... if it's cold or I'm with the kids. So... shell for me, more options.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Really should have a sticky for this ...

Shell + layers. Always.

Unquestionably more versatile. And the individual elements, in appropriate styles and colours can be used for more than skiing. E.g. down the pub.

P.S. it may be that “getting a bit warm” is due to a lack of breathability, which would be improved with a good shell and appropriate layers. Oh and you can’t have a base layer if you don’t actually have any layers. Bbit like calling a slice of bread a sandwich.

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I think the fact that both are sold and widely bought means that some people find both quite good.
I have a friend who rarely wears anything but a t shirt and shell even on cold days, other people layer up under padded jackets and enjoy the feeling of 'cosiness'.

Shell and layers for me but it isn't the only answer.

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@T Bar, some people buy "ski" jackets. Doesn't mean that's a good idea... Some people buy shell suits.

Why on earth would an insulated jacket be any "cosier" than a shell over appropriate layers?

After all it is free

hmmm. That does not invalidate my argument.

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@under a new name, unfortunately, “ski” jackets are the only thing on offer in many British shops (looking at you, Snow and Rock) and so people are either not aware that there are other options, or can't find anywhere that sells them. I also think there may be a bit of a difference for those of us who live in the mountains and are therefore used to swapping layers around to account for different temperatures and changing weather, and those who come out one or two weeks a year for whom cold, snowy weather is a bit of a shock to the system.

The cynic in me also reckons that most Brits who do any outdoor activities will probably own a waterproof shell of some sort simply due to it being necessary in the UK. It probably won't be a “ski” one though, even though it would probably serve this purpose, and therefore there is an opportunity to sell them another expensive jacket Cool

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@under a new name,
That a shell is more versatile I don't dispute, but a padded jacket is basically a shell with another layer and plenty of people find them useful and like to wear them.

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I take both, I ski in the shell, and tend to use the insulated thing walking about at night.

@T Bar, @endoman, I should be clear, I have a very cosy down jacket for wandering around in deepest winter with only a t-shirt underneath as I can be reasonably sure that inside the pub I will only want a t-shirt.

However, almost any insulated ski jacket, maybe until you reach the high end, is going to inevitably involve compromises as two elements are combined into one. I think "plenty of people" is a red herring.

You know it makes sense.

@Scarlet,
I think Britains maritime climate actually means the temperature swings around rather more wildly here than in the alps on any given day.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Shell over base layer and fleece.

I also take a thick skirted ski jacket for the Arctic days.

A snowHead

A snowHead

I generally use a shell over a base top as I ski fairly hot. Once below -8 a thin gillet may go on, much colder than that a thin fleece would replace it. Much more versatile than an insulated jacket.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

@Scarlet, hadn’t seen your post. Some good points. Out on hill now but will revert from PC later.

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I sometimes use two base layers rather than a base layer and fleece. That way you can pack lighter. Happy

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Re Slush'n'Rubble, haven't been in there in years. Crikey, unimpressed.

I'm not quite sure I understand this "ski jacket" thing, any more. I mean, when I learned to ski in the 70s, ski clothing was functionally rather different from tweeds and woollens.

So fair enough.

Today? 1. why advertise you are on a "ski" holiday? 2. Why buy and expensive bit of gear that you wear 1 or 2 weeks a year?

Re outdoor kit, I made the schoolboy error of acquiring a shell summer before last based on the critical criterium that I liked the colour. It would have worked as a ski jacket, except, it has practically no collar when wearing a helmet. I really like a high collar in crap weather.

So I suspect there are many people in the UK who have a similar walking/hiking/rain/general outdoors jackets, which would probably work fine for 1-2 weeks a year, but who walk into the shop and ask for a ski jacket, rather than a decent technical shell that would work for skiing.

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Next time you're all on the hill, look at what ski school instructors wear!

Though I'm only referring to ESF

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@Weathercam, why would one do that? Their stuff is often fairly rubbish.

That's why they have great long ponchos for the vacs scols when they have to ski in the rain with 100 wailing bairns each.

I look at what the guides wear ...

After all it is free

I use both, decision made on what I intend to do that day. I do make sure I buy both with pit zips, and the same with salopettes.

@under a new name, please examine closer the brands etc Colmar etc they spend all day out there and there's a reason, I think that, over the years they wear what they do.

Has a lot to do with standing around whilst pupils do their thing.

Billy punters will not follow what guides do or wear, and as for anyone referring to salopettes Laughing

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Personel experience, started with a cheap shell (pretty happy), moved to a insulated snowboard brand jacket (hated it) then bought a high spec shell and never looked back. I now have a assortments of base and mid layers that I pick and choose to the conditions for that day.
I also have a ridiculous warm down jacket for walking to the pub in the evening.

I dont see what gear the ESF are in has any interest to me, they just use what deal/free plug there boss's can agree with the manufacturers. Whistler/blackcomb ski school use north face shells, TDC in vail use planks (looked like a insulated jacket) etc. I would be more interested in what the instructor/guides use when not in company clothing and what they buy with there hard earned cash for example izzy at the PSB was in a Patagonia shell with a down mid layer.

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@Weathercam, I know exactly the reason they wear what they wear, it’s all about the commissions the school director’s receive... (I know, because a couple of ESF directors have, in their cups, told me)

“Colmar”? Seriously?

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@Weathercam, and as for referring to “billy” “punters” ... that’s not a very nice attitude.

Have had to “school” that sort of unpleasantness out of many a chalet girl.

For the majority of people , a traditional ski jacket is the way to go. Less faff.

Unless you already own a shell for hillwalking etc, then of course, that will make sense rather than buying a new jacket just for skiing.

The majority of people who bang on about layering just want others to think they're gnarly freeriders rather than piste bashers.

I've NEVER worn a helmet compatible hood while skiing, and shells with those simply look ridiculous if they're not fully zipped up.

You know it makes sense.

When it gets below about -10 I can’t get warm in a shell even wearing every layer I possess, so I have both a shell for warm skiing/walking/wet weather & a traditional insulated jacket for colder weather.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

A snowHead

A snowHead

@Daishan, yes

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

@Gordyjh, what is the lining in your magical insulated jacket? Unicorn hair?

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At the end of the day there is not a right or wrong answer but it is interesting different opinions on this.
I always feel in a shell I can be just as warm but with less bulk, if that makes sense.

On the subject of shells l, my bro in laws new hagloff shell had a double zip down the front. One zip closed the jacket as normal the other zip opened the jacket revealing a extra mesh vent approx 2 inch wide the full length of the zip. I thought this was a pretty neat idea.

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@Daishan, cos there isn’t one, provided the shell actally fits...

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

I've found that if I buy a shell which is sized to fit enough layers under it to cope with really cold days, it is very baggy when worn over a base layer and stretch fleece, which is what I wear most of the time.

So most of the time I ski in a close fitting shell, but I switch to an insulated jacket when the temperature reaches -10c or below.

After all it is free

i find layering a bit restrictive, i hate wearing 3 layers, its just a t shirt and an insulated jacket for me, if it gets to warm there are plenty of ventilation zips.

I used to wear a padded ski jacket.
Now I use a synthetic padded mid-layer (this one: https://www.stellarequipment.com/product/w-primaloft-jacket2-blublack/) and a shell, it feels much more comfortable.
I think the difference is in the material. I used to find the inner liner of my old jacket wet. This moisture came in direct contact with my back which in turn made me feel cold when I was stationary on the lift.
My current mid-layer has a highly breathable very thin material, and the shell is a membrane, which allows sweat to evaporate. Hence whenever I sweat now, very soon I feel fine, and my jacket is always dry on the inside.
It might be possible that should the inner liner of my old jacket be from a different material it wouldn't be the case, but who knows.

Re the helmet-compatible hood: I only used it once, but it was essential in the conditions: wind speed was 60 km/h, I could only stay warm if I closed _all_ the gaps in my clothing.

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I see the helmet-compatible hood a essential part of my jacket wether it's a shell or insulated. If I look a knob I dont really give two......

Help!!

Insulated jacket or shell?

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