I asked last year about selling Canada (or USA) to my OH. Well the tips I was given on here as well as the experience of some of our fellow skiers on our last trip have swayed her! After considering the different options, we have chosen Whistler for our first foray across the pond.
Having organised a few successful DIY trips in Europe (for various group sizes and abilities) I was considering doing the same for this trip but the thought of doing it in Canada is giving me a few concerns!
So basically, I'm after any advice or recommendations you'd care to make!
A little about us: a group of 6 confident intermediates to advanced skiers. (3 x couples which makes it a bit easier!). We would be looking at 14 days.
First major question: WHEN? I've done a lot of reading and (please correct me if I'm wrong) there doesn't seem to be a general consensus of when the best conditions will be? We don't mind cold (although we haven't experienced cold in the Canadian terms yet but did do -25 in the wind in L2A the other year!). We do want some fresh snow as we are keen to start exploring the patrolled off piste areas (cue the no-one can predict the snow statement!). The main thing I have read is to avoid major holidays like Spring Break for example?
With all this in mind we were thinking about mid to late February in the hope that this will give a best of all options. Avoids major holidays, decent snowfall, not -30! It would also be useful for us as we have parents who can dog sit and for a week of our trip it's UK half term so saves us some money there!
Flights are easy enough to book, so no issues or concerns there. We all live close enough to Heathrow! Looking on SkyScanner, the flights seem a tad cheaper in February than January. Wednesday flights also seem doable and cheaper again. Are there any other advantages/disadvantages going mid week (ie missing a traditional change over day like in Europe for example?)
We would like to throw in a trip to Vancouver (apart from seeing the airport!). Would it make more sense to do this on arrival or at the end of the trip? I was also thinking of using a trip to Vancouver as a break in the middle of the holiday perhaps? Am also open to any other ideas for non-skiing related day trips we can do.
Transfers: Can anyone recommend a decent transfer company? From what I've read, it's best to transfer than drive? Because there are 6 of us, hiring a large enough car/van (or 2 smaller cars) would be more expensive/hassle but does give that bit more freedom? It would also allow us to pick up supplies on the way for food etc rather than in resort (I assume the same theory applies in Canada that food/booze is generally cheaper before you get to the mountains?)
Accommodation: From what I've seen anything half board is silly expensive (and you miss out on eating out!). Most accommodation I have seen is either self-catering or B&B. Can anyone recommend anywhere in particular? I think ideally we would like the ability to cook our own meals in case we didn't fancy eating out every night. Especially with a large group, means that we can take it turns cooking.
I've also seen some pretty decent looking places on AirBnB which would more suit that option! I'm kinda liking that option more as we are a good group of friends and having a lounge to chill out in together is appealing instead of "being separated" in rooms in a hotel for example. Although on the other hand....having the knowledge that we don't have to cook/make/sort breakfast every day is also appealing!
Is there a better location to stay in? From what I've seen, there are 2 towns/villages? Whistler and Whistler Creek? Is there an advantage to staying in one over the other? Whistler seems better linked from the village, is that much of an issue? I assume from guess work that Whistler Creek would be the quieter of the two spots? Again I am assuming there is a bus that link the two?
Talking of eating, from what I've seen and heard that Whistler has a decent range of places to eat. From more budget options to fine dining. We aren't that fancy but do appreciate a good meal. What are the prices like say in comparison to eating out in a major French resort? Just trying to get an idea of spending budget required!
I am happy to consider a TO as well, if anyone can again recommend based of good experiences? I see the usual of Crystal. Inghams and Ski World offer Whistler but also have seen Ski Independence mentioned a lot. Can anyone share any experiences with them?
A lot of questions there I know! But any help/suggestions are greatly appreciated!
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Just back from two weeks in whistler, think we are booking up again for next year.
DIY, I don't see any value in going as a package.
14 days lift pass is ridiculous expensive, lot cheaper with epic season pass which also has limited use in Europe if sneaking in a 2nd trip next season. Epic pass 19/20 is on sale now and goes OFF sale when the season starts.
Whistler is pretty low and close to the coast so doesn't usually get as cold as inland Canada but they had a abnormal cold spell feb this season. Weather as with everywhere else is hit or miss. We where there during spring brink and tbh didnt notice it much more busy. If you get a powder day then seams everybody in BC is on the hill and expect lift ques.
Plenty of options for transfer from hiring a car with a drop of center in whistler (think avis), shared shuttle service approx £90 pp return also option of private taxi. Plenty of threads already on this.
Location wise I always prefer whistler village as more restaurants/bars but will be booking Fairmont in upper village for next season as I got a great deal on some rooms. It's only a 5 minute walk between main village and upper village but creekside is fair distance from main village and slightly isolated. We stayed in crystal lodge two weeks ago and was nice. Rooms newly decorated and v clean, booking direct on their website was far cheaper than any hotel comparison site.
There is two decent priced supermarkets in the village also a couple of bottle shops with a nice selection of wines.
We tried to have a day off in the middle and take in a ice hockey game in vancouver but couldn't find a return transfer late enough, would have been easy If someone had a driving license with them to hire a car.
Strongly recommend a visit to axe throwing, they will pick you up free of charge and their is cool small brewery next door for a few beers.
The tobogganing is very expensive for 40 seconds but is a pretty special experience.
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Tue 2-04-19 19:45; edited 1 time in total
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
I haven't been to Whistler in several years, but with that caveat, here's some input:
When: You never can tell, but I wouldn't worry too much about cold. Whistler is close to the coast, so rain at the base is more likely to be a concern than extreme cold. Spring Break is not as much of an issue in North America as the half term is in Europe because it tends to be more dispersed here, spread out over a period of several weeks. And, in any event, going to the coast seems to be more of a thing than going skiing. So long as you don't hit the Christmas/New Year timeframe, you can pretty much be indifferent with respect to crowds. Fresh snow, who knows? In general, I would lean to March over February, but it is so unpredictable, that I wouldn't let that be the deciding factor. If February works better for you, then do it in February.
Flights: Mid-week should be fine if that's what you prefer. Arriving/leaving mid-week will possibly limit your accommodation options a little, but nowhere near to the extent that it does at large European resorts. The full week, structured, half board, this is how we do it or you can go elsewhere is much less of an issue here. I would guess that the majority of overnight visitors to NA resorts go for less than a complete week. I would do Vancouver, which is a wonderful city, at the end rather than on the front end, a bit jet lagged and strung out. I definitely would not do it in the middle because I would rather do 2 transfers Vancouver-Whistler than 4. I am not aware of other interesting day trip options. Whistler is relatively remote. I don't think the difference in food/booze charges in resort vs. out will be material, and once you exit Vancouver, there aren't many options for commerce on the way to Whistler anyway.
Transfers: yes, let someone else drive you. I think you will have precious little use for a vehicle in resort and 2 weeks rental adds up. Plus, this will save you from asking the typical dozens of English question regarding snow tires (and misspelling it) .
Accommodation: yes, half board very rare in NA. B&B more common, but still relatively rare. Airbnb, vrbo, etc. is a good option for a group that size, and you should be able to get a bus or taxi to make a big grocery run every few days. I'm an excellent cook and could make myself available to be chalet breakfast boy if terms are right. Whistler Creekside is definitely more quiet. I wouldn't want to be there for a trip of the duration you are planning. I think you will find it worth the price premium to stay in Whistler Village, which has a wide range of eating and drinking options.
Catered chalets like in the alps aren't really a thing in Canada and so are much more rare. Your choice is more likely hotel or a self catered option. The self catered options though can be very luxurious. Be very careful about exchange rates etc on VRBO; they have a nasty habit of pricing things in USD and not CDN which can make for an unpleasant surprise. https://www.homeaway.ca is the Canadian site of VRBO and avoids some currency uncertainty.
You don't mention it but ski-in / ski-out is also rare. A lot of accommadation (especially self catered) will be a walk from the lifts. They run shuttle buses so checking where you are staying relative to those routes is worthwhile.
Creekside is too small for that length trip and I'd imagine getting to Blackcomb side would be a bit of a traverse as well.
Parking in Whistler is at a premium and so some sort of transfer is to be recommended.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@sweaman22, as you say, that chart shows tremendous variability (it's the weather after all), but I am surprised to see how consistently March snowfall has exceed February. Looks like only one year this century where that was not the case. A few more days in March than February of course, but the difference in inches seems to surpass the difference in days most years.
We’ve been lucky enough to visit Whistler twice in the last year and have just booked for Easter next year. We have visited over Christmas/New Year and Easter holidays ( school holidays for us). Neither were crazy busy like Europe. An instructor said from new year onwards is busy as they get custom from australia after our new year through to Easter, our last ski holidays including all the North American holidays in between. Both times we’ve stayed in Blackcomb (Upper Village) which has a small selection of shops and is the base for Blackcomb Mountain. Free shuttle buses run around both whistler and Blackcomb, the Fairmont also has its own shuttle service. We never felt a need for a car.
We have stayed at what is now Blackcomb Springs which is ski in/ski out and Fairmont. Significant difference in price! If you want the luxuries then Fairmont has ski concierge with hot chocolate so you leave your skis and they do the rest and also has boot concierge inside, leave your indoor shoes in the warm equipment room, someone brings your boots, takes your shoes, reverse at the end of the day. Springs was clean, comfortable, free breakfast and handy. Both had heated pools and hot tubs.
Can’t comment on weather from experience when you are planning but we had excellent snow both previous trips in fact be careful what you wish for, the mountains were shut for 2 days in total when we were there due to snow fall and high winds.
We have only covered a small fraction of the patrolled area. You won’t get bored
Food is good, varied and ranges from posh to basic but always great. We enjoyed burgers at Splitz, breakfast at Portobello in the Fairmont, apres nachos at milestones (Blackcomb) or Longhorn (Whistler) - 3 very hungry teenagers to feed.
We have packaged- Crystal and DIY. Our booking for next year is package as we can’t get anywhere near the savings the package offers. That was exactly the case last Easter. We DIY’d at Christmas as we added a couple of nights in Vancouver on the end of our trip. Our package is Air Canada, it’s the same as we’re choose for DIY. slightly earlier flight into Vancouver means you arrive in Whistler earlier in th evening meaning more time for getting prepped for the next morning, and a meal and drinks, BA arrives later. Our DIY transfers were with Connect Airport Transfers, couldn’t fault them. Kept in contact, good drivers, on time and sorted all of our luggage out.
The journey up to Whistler will be in the dark but your journey back will be in daylight, the scenery is amazing.
You will love the lift queues, civilised, merging in turn, polite, friendly, chatty!
We purchased season passes and used them for a week in Breckenridge and a week in Val Thorens this season. I think they say over 10 days and it makes more sense and if you can sneak some time in Europe you can use them in selected places.
We really enjoyed snow mobiling and did an evening one up Whistler mountain and a breakfast one. Both excellent.
Would recommend a couple of days in Vancouver. Take a hop on/hop off, visit Granville Island market, if you can push the boat out book a sea plane tour of the harbour -an awesome experience. We stayed at the Fairmont Pacific Rim.
My first post, hope something in it is useful. Enjoy Whistler, we’ve become addicts.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Not much to add, my lad lived in Whistler for 2 seasons, summer and winter and I had two trips to go see him. Then went back with him. It was cheaper to do a package for us. We used Ski Safari, stopped in the above mentioned Blackcomb Springs ( coast) which is true ski in / ski out. Big double bedroomed suite and we cooked in about half the time / ate out half the time. Bus service works really well.
We did Vancouver on the way there as he wanted to show us around and do the sea to sky in the light. Transfer with Whistler Connections, faultless.
Last time we went it snowed a lot, like nearly all the time, and the alpine was shut for significant periods leading to big lift queues which even with local knowledge got annoying.
After all it is free
After all it is free
First, the easier and obvious answers:
Transfer vs Car -- Forget about hiring a car. Useless unless you plan to drive somewhere else beyond Whistler. But you might want to organize a private transfer for your party.
That's for the skiing part. But for the part of visiting Vancouver, you may consider it just for the days when you're done skiing. Well, that's the Vancouver visit part covered too. I guess that's my suggestion, to do the city stuff at the end.
Vancouver visit -- See above
Where to sleep -- I've never stayed in Creekside. Everyone said don't stay there. So I'd just pass that advice along. I've stayed in Whistler village. Lively and expensive. I've also stayed at Blackcomb. Sleepy but less expensive. AND ski-in/ski-out is possible, if you really care for that sort of thing. Otherwise, it's a few steps. Also, Whistler village has more hotel type, Blackcomb more condos.
Now the more tricky choices:
When? January could be as good as February, and without the crowd. Check this: http://bestsnow.net/fernhist.htm (look for the blue boxes). February and March still look very good too. Even April could be good.
Be mindful of a major holiday week in the middle of February (President's week", google it). Crowds may or may not be an issue. But it typically make accommodation tight and costly.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Canada Day and presidents Day (USA but a lot of epic pass holders will come up) are both on mon 17th Feb. It's likely that many will make a long weekend of it and it will likely be some of the busiest days of the year. So I would avoid that weekend. Arriving Wednesday 19th Feb would be fine, late Feb is a good a time as any - although as said above it's pretty much impossible to predict.
I disagree with others that say prices are equal. There is a reason why many people living in whistler drive down to Squamish for their "big shop". However, over two weeks and a group of 6 it's probably not going to save you that much. Certainly not worth the hassle and cost of a rental car which is rather useless once you arrive in whistler. Restaurants really cover every budget - el furnies is £3.50 per meal, araxi and bearfoot bistro are at the other end of the spectrum you chase their menus and costs online.
If you just want to get to whistler there are a lot of cheap shuttle buses running on a fixed schedule (around £20 return per person). I don't know about private shuttles, it may be because of your group size it's not much more expensive for a private.
Flights - I'm not sure if air Transat come up in price comparison sites but they are often the cheapest option between UK and Canada. Showing about £450 return (including bags) for next feb but a long way out so may drop some.
As said above buy your epic passes early. I think they stopped selling them before the season even started this year. It will easily pay for itself. To save some money you can even consider epic local pass (providing 10 days is enough).
For where. Whistler village puts you in the middle of everything. Upper village/backcomb area is quieter, cheaper, some ski in/ski out, and only short walk/bus to the main village. Creekside is cheapest but more out the way and less going on.
If you need any gear staying in Vancouver before can be a good option - lots of good deals and ski stuff is generally cheaper than UK/Europe. I don't think before or after makes too much difference. If you want to watch a hockey game you can schedule it to fit in with that. Personally I wouldn't want to do it in the middle, it's an unnecessary 3+ hours sitting on a bus.
My tip for whistler is to buy the quickdraw publications guide book. It's a huge area and will help you get orientated a lot quicker than just the piste map. Will also help you find the kind of ofpiste you want
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Fridge03 wrote:
WHEN?
When there's snow. They'l be riding out there for another month or so, but the season is early rather than later in the Coastal ranges. Personally I mostly go there xmas/new year, but it's complicated. You're unlikely to get minus 25 although you might. It's coastal, not to be confused by places which are a very long way away and "interior" like Banff, which have very different weather. More likely you'll encounter freezing level at around the village, or maybe even higher. That's brochure speak for : there may be rain down the bottom, take Gore-Tex or ride down in the gondola.
It snows a lot so "the reset button" is pressed every couple of days, hence it mostly doesn't matter.
Fridge03 wrote:
...I was also thinking of using a trip to Vancouver as a break in the middle of the holiday perhaps? Am also open to any other ideas for non-skiing related day trips we can do.
Vancouver's fun. You have to plan yourself. I usually stop there on the way in or the way out. Lots of good hotels, some of the best food anywhere, and a very different place. It may be raining (it's coastal). You can also go and look at the Eagles in Brackendale etc. depending on timing.
Fridge03 wrote:
It would also allow us to pick up supplies on the way for food etc rather than in resort (I assume the same theory applies in Canada that food/booze is generally cheaper before you get to the mountains?)
Dunno, it would seem to me to be a shame to go to Whistler and not check out the restaurants. There are a couple of supermarkets (resort owned) and locals do use them. You could probably buy stuff in Squamish, although that's gone up market since the Olympics. There are places to stay where you can cook your own food, but to me, if you're paying for "the Village" I'd be wanting to take advantage of that. There are other places in BC where you'd be needing to take food because there's nothing else! If you're planning on collecting food you'd want to factor in the cost of a car which maybe otherwise not useful, and bear in mind that even the moderate hotels charge you nightly to park that machine. A car is a liability in the village generally.
Fridge03 wrote:
Accommodation: From what I've seen anything half board is silly expensive (and you miss out on eating out!).
The second point is why the first is irrelevant. One tip is not to eat the hotel breakfast, unless it's the Wildwood. You can mostly pick up breakfast much better and cheaper elsewhere. It's not really a "half board" culture.
Fridge03 wrote:
What are the prices like say in comparison to eating out in a major French resort? Just trying to get an idea of spending budget required!
Dunno, not expensive in my experience. One reason to go to Vancouver is that the best restaurants are like moderate priced UK restaurants.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
Wow. Some awesome tips and advice there everyone. Thank you so much!
Snowheads never disappoint!
Sound advice on the location. I think we will focus on the many village and forget the Creek area. We don't mind a 10 minute walk (to a bar or the piste) but good to know there is a shuttle bus available.
Ski in/out is always a bonus but not a deal breaker for us. As long as it's close to the piste (which it is!). Feb 19th looks like a good time to consider then, as it misses the Cananda/President day weekend.
About the ski anywhere in the controlled area. Is it really as simple as that? We are wanting to get into off piste type stuff (having been strictly on piste only until now) but wouldn't consider it in Europe with appropriate guidance, equipment etc.
Is it a really as simple as "I like the look of that down there, let's give it go" and off you pop?
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I've only been to Whistler once and the others above have covered almost everything I would have added.
Quote:
Is it a really as simple as "I like the look of that down there, let's give it go" and off you pop?
My answer would be "yes" from an avalanche control point of view but "at your own risk" from a cliffs, trees and other hazards point of view. You may well end up somewhere pretty gnarly.
We have also used them at Banff and Breckenridge. They will bring your hire kit direct to your hotel room. We booked them for a late drop off (9pm) on the evening of arrival, which meant we could get up the lifts first thing in the morning (especially useful when jet lag from the UK means you are wide awake anyway).
For returns, you pre-arrange a meet point, either at base station or back at the hotel and they collect your kit. We also appreciated their support through the week. For example, in Breckenridge we had a broken ski pole in the group. We rang them and they said "leave the broken pole at the conciege desk of the hotel at the base and ask to borrow one from lost property. We will get a replacement there within 2hrs and you can swap over".
I always email them before placing the order with a cheeky "have you got a discount code at the moment?" and I usually get something deducted.
For complete disclosure, I have no links to them other than being a happy repeat client. And they may not be the absolute cheapest available but the convenience makes it worth it, at least for me.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Quote:
Is it a really as simple as "I like the look of that down there, let's give it go" and off you pop?
Pretty much. There are a couple of closed areas within the boundary but they are roped off and it would be more or less impossible to accidentally enter. You do need to be aware of tree wells which kill more than avalanches. It's not always easy to work out how to get to some places with just the trail map, some places are not really visible from the bottom, and it's possible to end up above some terrain you rather wouldn't want to be - which is why I recommend the guidebook. The guidebook also gives an idea about difficulty of the off piste runs so will give you some nice ideas where to go.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
That's great. And one of the reasons why we want to head to Canada!
And yes, that is with the proviso of still having to risk assess where you are wanting to go etc.
And thanks for the further info. Can I just go now! Haha.
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Quote:
Is it a really as simple as "I like the look of that down there, let's give it go" and off you pop?
It is, though with the emphasis on the "like the look of that" part.
For example, if it doesn't "look" clear where it end up, you may want to figure it out before popping off. It may involve a 10'(or 30') drop you need to "take air", or some big rocks you need to scramble off.
The above comments essentially cover it though.. Once you're off piste it's "heads up" skiing so whilst anything that isn't roped off is fair game it also means they don't mark all natural hazards (like cliffs). It's controlled from an avalanche perspective but just because tracks go there doesn't mean it won't end in a compulsory drop....
Tree wells are not to be underestimated - buddy up.
The above comments essentially cover it though.. Once you're off piste it's "heads up" skiing so whilst anything that isn't roped off is fair game it also means they don't mark all natural hazards (like cliffs). It's controlled from an avalanche perspective but just because tracks go there doesn't mean it won't end in a compulsory drop....
Please allow me to correct a misconception.
There's no such concept as "off-piste" in north America
A "run" can be groomed, or ungroomed. If a run is groomed, it's reasonable to assume there's no cliffs, no tree wells. Beyond that, some "run" are just a name on a map with a line, there's no guarantee of what's "NOT" there. Some "runs" go through dense forest. Other may involves a bit of rock scrambling.
The most famous example would be Corbett's in Jackson Hole. It's a named "run". But it involves a mandatory jump followed by a mandatory quick turn upon landing. Missing either often result in a ride in the blood wagon.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Agreed - wrong phase - see previous thread for how much discussion the nomenclature difference between North America and Europe causes.
Well technically off-piste is anything not groomed/prepared so it is a reasonable word to use. I have never heard the term used in north America though, where it generally seems that unless it's specified as a groomer it's probably not prepared in any way. The problem only comes if people assume everything on the trail map (notice the word trail not piste) is groomed. I agree there is some confusion with terminology, as the concepts and words don't match up perfectly. "In bounds off-piste" still seems the best description for euro skiers, but would probably be met with confused looks by most n American skiers.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
sweaman22 wrote:
Agreed - wrong phase - see previous thread for how much discussion the nomenclature difference between North America and Europe causes.
It's not that I want to be pedantic. It's the assumption behind the word that could lead to confusion.
Below tree lines, "trail" is usually well defined. I don't think anyone will have any issue what's "off-piste" (even though many NA skiers probably give you a blank look). It's basically anything BETWEEN the trail, going through the trees. As long as it's not roped off, it's fair game. You may run into stumps and break your leg. But ski patrol WILL drag you out and take you down the mountain without a fuss (and without charge)
(but just to make simple things confusing, sometimes the "trail" are left to form moguls. So is that a "piste" or "off piste"?)
It's up in the alpine zone that things gets a bit confusing. Sometimes, you may see a wide flat path made by groomers. That's the equivalent of European "piste". That's usually there to allow lower intermediates to get from point A to point B. It's reasonable to think the snow off the side of that being "off-piste". You'll be watching out. That's good.
But other times, you may see well skied paths that looks like they're a "piste". But really, that's "off-piste'ish"! You may hit rocks on those!
Canada Day and presidents Day (USA but a lot of epic pass holders will come up) are both on mon 17th Feb.
Canada day has moved! It's usually (always, though day off adjusted for weekends) on the 1st July like every year
BC family day on the other hand did move from the previous weekend to the same day as Presidents day
[/pedant]
This year was surprisingly quiet that weekend, possibly because of really good snow in US and only ok snow in Whistler?
Whistler supermarkets, particularly the ones actually on the village, do seem more expensive than say Real Canadian Superstore or Save on Foods (neither of which are in Whistler).
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
You are right was getting mixed up with Canada Day and BC family day (which is also Alberta family day too).
After all it is free
After all it is free
Two detailed trip reports for Banff in my signature, and a video. Not Whistler but probably a respectable generalization of Canada.
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Poster: A snowHead
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