 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi All,
Like most we've had holidays cancelled and are looking towards the winter 21/22 ski season and im looking for some pointers in the right direction - I will jump straight to it
We are 6 adults and 4 children (age 7-10) and while some of the adults are very experienced, the children are not - its their first ski holiday!. Ive seen plenty of advice on here regarding destinations and we are completely open to any of them, including when to travel (1 week out of school isnt that bad!) but I was wondering what peoples advice is in terms of getting the best cost value for groups?
Package Holiday? - Do we just book the usual package - which we know is pricy at the moment! - Ive seen £800pp (which was around our budget) for places that seem a lot less appealing compared to places ive been before (although admittedly Ive not been skiing for 12+ yrs)
Accommodation? - Were happy to share 1 place together if thats the best option? are there any recommendation of best places for finding such private properties? Or have people had bad experiences doing this?
Travel - Flights? Trains? or has anyone ever shared a mini bus and driven down? Seems like a fun option but I dont think it would be great for the kids and then there's the experience of driving in snow on mountains
Has anyone got any experience of booking as a family that they could share?
Thanks for any Info 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Admiralgpt, package holidays outside of school holiday weeks can be very good value - especially first whole week of Jan after new year, week BEFORE Christmas week or very late season. The EoSB actually coincides with our school holidays but my eldest will be sitting her GCSES so we are avoiding Easter holidays.
However given your children are completely new I personally would recommend two things:
1, get them a course of lessons before going on a dry ski slope
2, I would look at Austria or Italy which tend to have all day lessons with a lunch option which will allow adults to go further afield before pickups (unless you book somewhere like Esprit which has kids clubs and does the pickup for you)
We did a group holiday a few years ago with some beginner children to a snowheads place in Austria, which they got on really well learning on the small local hill.
https://austrian-adventures.com/
We hired cars and drove off to the different areas for our days skiing while the kids were in ski school
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Late jan or 3rd week of March can give you lots of bang for buck
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If you're self catering, France should be the cheapest option. Then again, it is much easier to find two (or three?) appartments in the same residence than a chalet that sleeps ten. Should be cheaper, too, though probably less fancy in most cases. If you're from around London or south, driving should be fine. Winter tyres are a must and chains are recommended, at least throughout midwinter. But afaik mini busses only seat nine.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Winter tyres are a must and chains are recommended, at least throughout midwinter.
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Chains are manditory, winter tyres reccomended.
I've found the resorts web site the best place to look for accommodation and found some big apartments and chalets in Tignes and Avoriaz.
Outside of UK school holidays tour operators can be a good deal, but I've only got the real good deals with small parties (4-6) and very late booking. Late March or April are often good choice.
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@Admiralgpt, Welcome to Snowheads.
Although some years ago, we had 4 or 5 years at l'Alpe d'Huez. Left Birmingham after work Friday and arrived Saturday am - driving shared and the kids slept through the night.
As a resort it's not the cheapest in the world, but neither is it the most expensive. What it does have though, is an abundance of both novice and progressively more difficult slopes to move through. As a single resort it has a huge amount of skiing, and for the experienced in your party, is has a couple of very serious blacks.
We self catered (Les Bergers) - which helps to keep costs down, and you know the kids will eat 
Sorry, forgot to add we DIY'd it
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@Admiralgpt, Welcome to Snowheads.
I would suggest the most important factor for your group is to find somewhere that the kids will cope with and be happy. So, i agree with NickyJ that lessons at home on a dry slope would be a good investment to get things off to a flying start. Given the kids are roughly the same age and absoluite beginners, you may wish to check out the comparative of a private instructor vs. group lessons. You'd get a lot more bang for your buck, it may not be that much more expensive depending on ski school but it would depend on the kids being compatible in a single group (if the youngest is also timid, then maybe not on). For the resort choose somewhere where it is really easy for kids to walk to and from ski school. Courchevel 1850 is good in this respect, but also pricey.
Travelling from the UK in two cars may be your cheapest option. January is cheap, but days are shorter and can be a lot colder for the kids. Also, check out the TO's that specialise in kids clubs and child care.
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Thanks for all the replies. The kids are already getting dry ski slope lessons, we will get them up to scratch before we go!
We've decided driving with kids is out of the question so it's finding the right resort and then working out the difference between a chalet for 10 Vs 3 package holidays ( groups of 4, 4, and 2)
Also just in reference to the adults ability. Were comfortable on reds but blacks are more challenging and less enjoyable for us. Nice cruisey blues would be good for the kids
Resort websites seem the better bets at the moment as tour operators don't even have all of the hotels and resorts available.
Also what's this end of season bash I keep reading about! 
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Follow the autoclicky link that is generated when I type the EOSB. Also if your school holidays finish a week earlier there is a possibility of the SFaB
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IMHO avoid the big resorts - expensive lift passes from which you will not get value. Austria and Italy are cheaper than France - you will get through alot of chips on the hill. You could look at Snowcamps Europe (Andy Rose) who runs a variety of holidays tailored to suit the group. Its not a camp its a holiday, and the beginner trip around Christmas looks a lovely location. A high altitude resort will be very hard work for everyone no matter how fit in the uk, especially the learners. A lower resort with a permanent village (swimming pool, big supermarket etc) is easier. If you go for private lessons, consider if your learners are early or late risers in the mornings - to get a 5yr old to a a 9am lesson in the right gear having been dressed, fed and watered, may require a 6am alarm call, 2 calm adults, a second breakfast croissant at 8.45am and a wee stop at 8.56am. After which you might feel that you need a long coffee break before skiing. An 11am lesson seems late until you factor in all the faff. If you're flying, a private minibus transfer will be easier and quicker than a tour operator coach. Your destination might depend on where you can fly to from your nearest airport. Hope this is helpful.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@blueski2, that is a good point... we used to have our girls waking us when they were younger as they were so keen (when we went with Esprit and our eldest was 4 we had a mini tantrum about the fact that it was too early when she was ready to go to kids club as she loved it so much). However we as a family have always been early risers
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Austria and Italy are cheaper than France - you will get through alot of chips on the hill.
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Eating on the hill is cheaper in Austria and France but other costs, including lift passes, very comparable. France has the advantage that many resorts have self-catered accommodation within very easy reach of the ski school meeting place - taking tired kids "home" to lunch is infinitely cheaper and often just what they need.
If your 7 - 10 year olds all get on OK with their dry slope lessons, private lessons for them as a group could work well, but timing that to fit in with optimum adult ski time might not be too easy.
For your group, assuming you are all good friends, sharing accommodation would be a lot more sociable than separate apartments and should be easily doable. The adults could take it in turns to shop for, cook and clear up an evening meal, whilst the kids play or flop in front of a video, then go to bed, exhausted from all the fun of skiing. I think you're wise to avoid driving with kids, for just one week.
If you decide to take kids out of school (very good idea) I'd say the optimum week, in France, is the second week of March after the end of the French school holidays. Likely to be better snow than very early January, long daylight hours, warmer. Low season prices in French resorts.
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I think you're wise to avoid driving with kids, for just one week.
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I have to say that driving with our son was a lot easier than flying or going by train. He'd fall asleep shortly after leaving home and wake up somewhere between Lyon and Albertville. No lugging lots of luggage through airports or dealing with a bored and irritiable child in airports or waiting for trains.
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Low season prices in French resorts.
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In Les Arcs the low season passes are only available the first week of the season and perhaps the last two weeks of April
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You know it makes sense.
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| For your group, assuming you are all good friends, sharing accommodation would be a lot more sociable than separate apartments |
Were family so its not too bad  The main thing is we want to keep costs around the £800pp - Im not sure how realistic this is yet as i Only started looking today and my first thoughts were to come and look for some experienced discussions - and found this forum! Our group is Me/wife/2 kids - Sistser/Husband/2 kids - Parents
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| Eating on the hill is cheaper in Austria and France but other costs, including lift passes, very comparable. France has the advantage that many resorts have self-catered accommodation within very easy reach of the ski school meeting place - taking tired kids "home" to lunch is infinitely cheaper and often just what they need |
Yes i think this will be important this time. Previously ive gone skiing with my dad and we ski all day, then spa, hotel food and repeat - But weve got the partners, kids and more this time so there needs to be a little around us. Ive been cervinia and mayrhofen before amongst others but ive never actually been to France so it would be a popular choice I think. Important thing is getting kids and partners hooked on skiing! So we wont be pushing it hard every day like I have in the past.
I wont quote every but here but i wish there was a "like" button for posts - theres a lot of great info here. Thankyou all!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@Admiralgpt, welcome to snowHeads
Good that the advice you’ve had so far is sound and useful. Almost always you’ll get that on here. You’ll probably get the occasional well meant duff advice, or worse, but that’s social media for you and I can tell already you’ll spot that a mile off.
In your position, I’d start by buying some books. Sounds like you intend to ski for a few years. So for the price of a round of drinks for the family on a typical mountain in a big resort in the Alps, you could have a lot of useful independent information, whenever you want it.
Austria v Italy v France, for example. Main characteristics and differences? What are the broad pros and cons of each for a family? Which areas are likely to suit, now and as skiing and preferences change? Where’s good value and where’s not so? Where’s got lots of south or north facing slopes? What are the relative merits of lift systems? Ski school options?
Sure, with lots of effort, you can get all that online. Not as easily or independently, I’d suggest. The books are just a very good place to start, IMO. They really help in ruling out the unsuitable and ending up with a manageable long list.
Then snowHeads can add a lot more experience, detail, opinion, drilling right down to which room in Block X or Y has the best view. How easy it is to get from that apartment to a morning lesson on time? Which is a good value restaurant for the beginners to meet the others for lunch? etc etc.
Good advice already I think.
Take them out of school, unless the price is a jail sentence. Middle weeks of March or late January.
Personally I wouldn’t drive that far with kids, just for a 1 week break. Get some broad costings done soon to help reach a decision on Package v DIY. Keep an eye out for good early booking deals.
Keep floating ideas and questions on here.
Not sure the location or timing of snowHeads EoSB or SFab would suit what you’re asking for. But if you have such a great time in, say, January and just couldn’t resist a cheeky extra week, one of those could well tick that box.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Admiralgpt, good advice from @PeakyB, get a book. IMHO the best ones are the slightly out of date Where to Ski and Snowboard secondhand from Amazon
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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A book? In more than 30 years of skiing its never occurred to me to get a book. A single source of information vs online info?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@holidayloverxx, +1
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@holidayloverxx, @NickyJ,
I use online information as much as most. But I’d guarantee even you well travelled snowHeads would learn plenty new and useful information from the books I’m referring to.
At the stage and situation the OP is in, they’d be invaluable and save a lot of research time.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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£800 per person is a fairly tight budget, so somewhere you can feed yourselves and drink at supermarket, not bar, prices will make a lot of sense. We've done a lot of group and family trips and it's good for adults to be able to enjoy some company and a few more (cheap) drinks whilst the kids sleep. Kids of that age love toboganning or just mucking around in the snow, so somewhere they can do that outside, and unsupervised (i.e. near your accommodation), would be good. If you are going to take them out of school, and either late January or middle-ish March, you should have reasonable choice of accommodation and ski school. Just as an example, this ski school offers "mini team" lessons with a maximum of 5 pupils, between 4 and 12. My grand-daughters had a great time - in two different groups, one with 3 kids, one with 2 after the first day. https://www.glissepassion.fr/collectif-enfants-ski If your kids wanted, and reach similar levels, they could be one group and possibly be just the 4 of them with an instructor.
Les Saisies could be a good resort for you to consider, provided you were ready to rent cars to get yourselves there. Super place for learner kids, very convenient, not too expensive, plenty of suitable accommodation. I know it well (used to have an apartment there, alas no longer) so no axe to grind, but local knowledge to offer.
When I said mid-March was low season prices in France, I was thinking of accommodation prices, not lift passes. Ski lessons are also a bit cheaper outside the "vacances scolaires" which always includes the UK half terms. And the pistes infinitely less crowded.
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If you look at the Peak Retreats websites they have plenty of rather superior accommodation in a whole host of French resorts (including some you're unlikely ever to have heard of) sleeping up to 10. Many have swimming pools. That, and looking up the information about the resorts themselves, will give you a good feel for the range of possibilities and the prices of accommodation. It might be helpful to talk to them - they get a good press on Snowheads.
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+1 on books. Where to Ski and Snowboard was produced each year up to around 2016 (?) and attempted to cover the alpine countries and USA/Canada, with (very) short sections on other countries such as Bulgaria/Norway etc. With such a scope it necessarily concentrated on the larger/better known resorts. Shouldn't be too hard to track down a copy of one of the later issues, but no need for more than one - they didn't change that much from year to year. After a gap of a couple of years or so, they restarted with smaller, but more detailed, books on individual countries - Where To Ski in Austria, then France and Italy so far; I believe Switzerland is due next, but don't quote me on that. Not essential, as mentioned above, but quite useful and fun to thumb through beforehand and when away.
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@195062, a good summary of very good books available.
Actually the final edition of the Where to Ski and Snowboard all countries in one volume is difficult to find at a reasonable price five years later. The editions from the two years prior much cheaper and, as you indicate, close enough to be useful.
The more up to date individual country guides are excellent in my opinion. You’re spot on with the 3 editions published so far, France, Austria, Italy. The research for a Switzerland one interrupted by the pandemic.
Chris Gill and Dave Watts do the editing. For the OP, looking ahead hopefully to many years of family ski holidays, a set of 3, which usually gets a good discount, would be a good investment. Maybe 0.0001% of 5 years worth of holiday expenditure.
https://www.wheretoskiandsnowboard.com/the-book/
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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After a gap of a couple of years or so, they restarted with smaller, but more detailed, books on individual countries - Where To Ski in Austria, then France and Italy so far;
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I'm not actually sure they are more detailed and seem to concentrate on the bigger resorts. However, the splitting the guidebook into different guidebooks for different countries does seems to follow on from a trend that appears on this site as well. We seem to be getting much more single country focussed. For example people who like skiing in Austria appear to hate France and vice versa. Here, it is probably friendly banter but to an outsider it may appear a deep seated and real feeling - you ski in one country only. (I have a confession it is over 2 years ago since I skied anywhere but France). Having to identify what country you want to ski in right at the start of choosing a resort before you even buy a guidebook is not IMHO a good idea. Even it you buy all 3 you end up missing some potentionally suitable locations: Andora, Poland, Slovinia or even Switzerland for example.
The trouble with using the internet for your research is that you have to know what you are looking for before you start looking. You miss the chance findings. No where is this more obvious than in adademic journals. Nowadays, you enter a few key words into a search engine, such as google scholar and it throws up a list of suitable articles. What you miss from the real journal is seridipty, the paper somewhere else in the journal not directly related and not having relevant keywords but giving some really useful ideas. In a similar vein going to a bookshop will give you a less specified choice but a greater potential for discoving something new than going to Amazon (the website, not the forest).
@PeakyB, I saw this on the Amazon website for the 2016 edition
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4 Used from £49.84
3 New from £285.75
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second hand 2014 version are available for a lot less
Gulp. Now where are my copies on the bookshelf
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I have to say that driving with our son was a lot easier than flying or going by train. He'd fall asleep shortly after leaving home and wake up somewhere between Lyon and Albertville. No lugging lots of luggage through airports or dealing with a bored and irritiable child in airports or waiting for trains.
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That was my thoughts exactly. We've always driven with the kids, from when they were 4 and 5, to the last time we went, when they could actually share with the driving!
You put them in the car at one end, with all their bits and pieces, and take them out at the other end. And probably a lot easier to keep them amused these days - when we first went, personal in car entertainment was a cassette Walkman!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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We've always driven with the kids, from when they were 4 and 5, to the last time we went, when they could actually share with the driving!
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I suspect that is why my son appears reluctant to learn to drive. He still sleeps the whole way only waking to attend to the toll booths
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@johnE, Apols to OP for drifting off direct relationship with your request and questions. It is still relevant though.
I picked up a copy of the final full Where to Ski and Snowboard 2016 for about £9 delivered. It’s now in the high security safe in the rear room of The Garrison.
I still use a 90s copy occasionally for the very simple but effective piste maps, which show clearly and quickly N,S, E and W facing slopes.
I use web based information or Apps for research at least 20 times more than books, probably nearer 100 times more, but still wouldn’t dispense with the printed matter.
With trip research, draw up your spec of musts and wants. Start broadest and don’t rule out any country. Gradually narrow the choice down to a shortlist. Compare and contrast the benefits and costs of each. Store electronically for future reference, then go on a Bash.
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I'm a big fan of Les Gets for family. It's a very family oriented resort, not too big, a good selection of runs to suite all abilities. Short transfer from Geneva or Cluses.
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You know it makes sense.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@Admiralgpt, one possible cost saving to investigate is the age for a free kids ski pass. E.g. Portes du Soleil, for the April weeks, has historically offered free ski passes to kids up to 12, this could save you £800 for the group, vs e.g. a Courchevel beginners limited-area pass.
April is a great time for family skiing IME - a heady mixture of sun, snow, long days and warm evenings on the balcony.
If you're ok with late season skiing (i.e. you don't have plans for Easter) it also removes the need to take the kids out of school.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Ensure your accommodation has a bit of space. With the children that young you might possibly get away with it, but there are times where three pairs of adults are shouting at their tired children to hurry up out of bed, eat breakfast, where's my hat, where's my gloves, I told you before, it's OK you go on without us, everyone is shattered as their legs ache... there can be explosions from both generations. There are many many great things about skiing together - that is one of the downsides.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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+1 for Easter. Sunweb has any number of basic shoe-box type apartments for around £300 in La Plagne, Val Thorens and other decent sized places. The prices are the same as when we went 3 years ago. Drive yourself there and you should get a weeks skiing for well under £800 each. We ate in 6 nights out of 7 and had a decent lunch on the mountain each day plus plenty of drinks stops and sundowners etc. and the total bill was £2400 for 4 of us, all up.
Easter is great for family skiing because it's warm and light. Kids will like it because they won't be freezing cold standing in a blizzard learning to snowplough... although it might rain on them.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@snowdave, thats a very interesting point on the passes! The other thing is I get heavily discounted rail travel because of my job so the eurostar London to Geneva will be a good cost saving for me too (potential for les Gets as @timmycb5 mentioned) So there is definitely ways I can keep my costs down. The passes would be a big help given there is several kids.
For thos who recommended the books I will keep an eye out for the 2nd hand bargains!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Admiralgpt, a lot of resorts will do free kids passes with every adult one sold, and not necessarily just for certain weeks. The ages this stops at vary. And there also can be a big difference in price between child and young adult, again the age cut off will vary. So check the fine print. Every little bit helps.
If the kids are all of a similar age/ability then look at private lessons. Its usually not much to add another body onto the base price, you’ll then get a more effective lesson (more personalised, less participants (12 in a normal lesson not unknown) but at a reasonable cost per head). Also more flexibility, they can meet you sometimes and later in the day so no mad rush in the mornings, not easy even when practiced.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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Some resorts also do family deals or multiple person deals For passes so check before you buy. E.g Valmoral does a family price for 2 adults and 2 children saving around 90€
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@snowdave, I'm normally an advocate for Easter skiing but Easter 2022 is very late and there could be problems for beinners in that the pistes will be rock hard in the morning and slush in the afternoon and sunburn could be a real problem.
@Admiralgpt, cheep rail travel opens up lots of possibilities, though Geneva is perhaps not the best destination. Moutiers, Bourg st Maurice, Briancon, Cluses and perhaps even Milan might be better rail destinations. I even have friends who went to Andora by train
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| johnE wrote: |
| @Admiralgpt, cheep rail travel opens up lots of possibilities, though Geneva is perhaps not the best destination. |
Been looking at train options for the PdS half term next year (mainly because I'm pining for the snow as much as anything) and certainly London->Paris->Geneva then either a transfer pick-up from the rail station or ->Geneva airport and pick up a cheaper transfer from there are do-able - though probably require over-nights in Paris.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Mjit, I think the TGV goes to Cluses from which there are local buses to Lets Gets and Morzine.
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| j b wrote: |
| @Mjit, I think the TGV goes to Cluses from which there are local buses to Lets Gets and Morzine. |
Yes, but generally means 3 changes (including Paris) - and I can see us losing one of the children that way (and I know which one it would be too ^_^).
La Roche-sur-Foron and Cluses stations look a little open and exposed, so potentially chilly in Feb (though just from looking on Google Maps).
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FAQ
