 Poster: A snowHead
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Specifically the 3/3X, but any in the range are fine.
I've just spent two days ski testing at the freeride ski test in Stubai. I only went along for moral support, but ye know, may as well have a go. I took out the Dancer 3X (purple, 106mm waist, 164cm length) yesterday afternoon and really liked them. They have good edge hold, but really bounce around if you want them to. They're also incredibly quick.
I also tried the Faction Mana 3X this morning, to compare. These are far too wide (112mm) and have the turning circle of an oil tanker, despite being almost the same length as the Dancer. When I took them back in, I saw the Dancer 3X in the rack and asked if I could swap to see them side by side in the same conditions (it was harder snow today than yesterday, when it was snowing on and off). He'd seen a lot of people, so didn't realise I was returning for a second go, and started explaining how this was a burly ski for women who ski the FWT... To which my reaction was ”...and...”  I showed him my photo from yesterday, but nice ego boost anyway!
I'm not an amazing skier, but I had no trouble at all making the Dancer 3X do what I wanted. They are on sale at 50% off at the moment, so the n+1 devil is sitting on my shoulder, but I'm not sure how they fit in my quiver alongside a powder ski (107mm, 171cm, full rocker) and my go-to all conditions Santa Ana 93 165cm (which btw still has better edge hold than everything else I skied this weekend). I read a review which said everything I've said, except that they were not a powder ski despite the width and had a tendency to submarine, so other than dicking about, what are they for? I didn't get to try them out in anything close to powder, so I can't say for sure how they would ski.
Does anyone own a pair, and if so, when/how do you use them?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Also, if a pair was to accidentally* be purchased, what (non-touring, GW) binding would be best for someone who only used DIN 5.5? Marker Jester 10/11/12 are quite cheap at the moment, would that work?
*probably after too many glasses of wine.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Daughter has the Dancer 2X (Blue 98 width) and thinks they are great, especially edge grip and agrees with quickness.
She did test the Mana at a test day but they were no good on piste.
Her Black Pearls (82 width) have been mostly abandoned and she just uses the Dancers.
I’ve not been allowed to borrow the Factions yet, so can’t comment personally but we do tend to swap and agree on skis.
My daily go to ski this season is Santa Ana 84 165cm and agree with the grip, the Head Joy’s have been relegated to the garage.
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@Scarlet, maybe a Marker Squire would do you. Jester is supposedly beefier than a Griffon. I happen to have an almost unused pair for sale but they are pre GW so would probably need the spyderjon custom advice/ afd swap.
Whatever don't get the Royal heel so called for the degree of PITA they are to step in in powder.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@Dave of the Marmottes, maybe, I don’t know the order of beefiness of Marker bindings and assumed the Jester was the littlest, but you’re probably right.
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Yes I own Faction Dancer 3s.
They are for skiing off piste when it is not powder. They are a freeride ski.
They were perfect for me today. I skied off piste all day with clients, a mixture of drier wind packed snow, nicely transformed spring snow and heavier wet snow.
They make skiing off piste fun in typical European conditions, especially in the second half of the season.
They flex and float really nicely in denser snow, in powder they are a bit stiff and so they don't float as well as something softer with more rocker.
Bindings wise anything will work. I am a Look Pivot fan and the Pivot 12 goes down to DIN 4. Not cheap but they have the most elasticity and shortest mounting footprint of anything out there.
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
@Scarlet, maybe a Marker Squire would do you. Jester is supposedly beefier than a Griffon. I happen to have an almost unused pair (of Squires) for sale - a bit flimsy for me but finre for you but they are pre GW so would probably need the spyderjon custom advice/ afd swap.
Whatever don't get the Royal heel so called for the degree of PITA they are to step in in powder. |
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I brought the dancer 3 188 the start of winter after testing for a few days, in what was the best week of snow in the arlberg this winter. I was happy with them, but I didn't have much ski fitness. As the season has progressed I have probably only skied them 10 times due to a quite poor powder season. They feel like a short ski, due to the rocker, I have to stay centered. I find this disappointing as I like to use the tips to control my speed in the powder ( I will hopefully find the sweet spot in time) and I like to use the tails to occasionally launch out of the end of the turn in challenging terrain (the tail has no stiffness) I feel I need more powder days to 'learn' the ski. On piste quite flappy.
I think it is advertising guff saying this ski is made for FWT competitors. I think they are too soft and forgiving for that.
I have found that they are at their best when charging in the powder with the ski at full flex making agressive GS turns. This is perhaps when the main camber bit of the ski is flexed to match the rocker parts.
I didn't manage to find a 105ish (in the middle) ski without rocker this winter. Does anyone know if such a ski still exists?
I have some salomon 13 binding on.
I not sure if I would buy these skis again if I had my time over again. I would personally look to getting some skis made by one of the many small ski specialists manufacturers who seem to be more prevalent these days. Or perhaps there is a ski out there for me already, 105 ish in the middle. 186 ish length. Radius 40 ish, No rocker....
Every skiier is different. 50 percent is a great price. Faction are made in ibk I believe.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@snowrider, thanks, interesting. Would you say you use them more than a powder ski or an all-mountain ski? (I'm assuming you own multiple skis...)
@Ld, They don't seem to be a powder ski, so maybe that's why you're not getting on with them so well? Yes, I agree they ski short, but not as short as e.g. the Armada ARW 106, which even at 172cm (definitely a limit for me) felt like I was about to go over the front. I also didn't find them flappy, but I wonder if it's more pronounced on the longer models? Sorry, I don't know of any non-rockered powder skis – put up a post about that specifically, and something might come up.
My partner tried the Dancer 2 in 182cm, and didn't like them at all. He said he couldn't get them to grip, which should in theory be easier on the narrower ski. He does ski less aggressively than me though, so it could be that, or it could just be that different people like different things.
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| Scarlet wrote: |
| .......He does ski less aggressively than me though....... |
Everyone skis less aggressively than you!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Scarlet wrote: |
@snowrider, thanks, interesting. Would you say you use them more than a powder ski or an all-mountain ski? (I'm assuming you own multiple skis...)
@Ld, They don't seem to be a powder ski, so maybe that's why you're not getting on with them so well? Yes, I agree they ski short, but not as short as e.g. the Armada ARW 106, which even at 172cm (definitely a limit for me) felt like I was about to go over the front. I also didn't find them flappy, but I wonder if it's more pronounced on the longer models? Sorry, I don't know of any non-rockered powder skis – put up a post about that specifically, and something might come up.
My partner tried the Dancer 2 in 182cm, and didn't like them at all. He said he couldn't get them to grip, which should in theory be easier on the narrower ski. He does ski less aggressively than me though, so it could be that, or it could just be that different people like different things. |
I use them more than a powder ski because more of the time the off piste is not powder. I enjoy skiing off piste in most conditions and the Dancer 3 works well in most conditions on and off piste. When it is powder I switch to the Agent 4 which is wider, softer and has more tip rocker and that floats better when the snow is light but is not as stable in firmer snow.
I also have the Dancer 1 as my everyday piste teaching ski as it is super versatile as an all piste / all mountain ski.
I have not skied the Dancer 2 so cant say for sure, but with the other Dancers you can make them grip but the transition to slip is very smooth, they are the opposite of a "grabby" ski. A full on race ski will be more grippy but will also be more grabby. If your partner is used to a more traditional piste / race ski then the way these grip is going to feel different.
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@snowrider, I believe I might have been in your group on Sunday - I had the Agents. Great day out - thanks again!
@Scarlet, I have Dancer 1 which are my everyday sksi and the last of the Dictator 2 series which are identical to the Dancer 2. I reckon you should try Agents - exact same shape and as Dancer but without the metal which loses some of the pop when turning. I find my Agent 2 a more relaxed playful ski but happy to charge and still holds edge on hard snow.
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You know it makes sense.
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| snowrider wrote: |
I also have the Dancer 1 as my everyday piste teaching ski as it is super versatile as an all piste / all mountain ski.
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Can you speak to how the D1 performs off-piste?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@Tristero, very good off piste but not first choice for deep snow (in which case I recommend Agent). Very playful ski which makes for good turn initiation especially in hard snow and mogled terrain. Also the tip does not chatter at speed. It’s the type of ski that will put a smile on your face but you need to be at a good level to make the most from it.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Tristero wrote: |
| snowrider wrote: |
I also have the Dancer 1 as my everyday piste teaching ski as it is super versatile as an all piste / all mountain ski.
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Can you speak to how the D1 performs off-piste? |
For an 86mm waisted ski it does very well, probably better than anything else I have skied at this around this width. As mentioned it is a very smooth ski and not hooky or grabby so this make it much easier to ski in variable snow. This is due to it having minimal taper, an even flex through the ski and a light tail rocker. A lot of skis around this width are fat piste skis with more taper and a stiffer tail and this tends to make them more grabby. So great fun in the bumps and off the side of the piste. Ultimately though if I am going out to spend the majority of the time off piste I would take the Dancer 3s.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@Ozboy, @snowrider, thanks very much for your helpful replies! Seems pretty much, that's what I'm searching for: Next ski for my then 14yo daughter who found her love for off-piste skiing, but really needs one ski to do it all (as the trunk-capacity only allows it for daddy to bring two pairs of skis  ) .
For this purpose, ski-length same as body-height? Would you consider mounting a frame touring binding?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Tristero wrote: |
@Ozboy, @snowrider, thanks very much for your helpful replies! Seems pretty much, that's what I'm searching for: Next ski for my then 14yo daughter who found her love for off-piste skiing, but really needs one ski to do it all (as the trunk-capacity only allows it for daddy to bring two pairs of skis ) .
For this purpose, ski-length same as body-height? Would you consider mounting a frame touring binding? |
If she is heavier built and strong you could go body height. If she is thin and light then go a bit shorter.
Its 2024 so I wouldn't normally consider mounting a frame touring binding on anything.
If you have a suitable used set of bindings and suitable used skins and a tight budget then I can see an argument, but buying new then there are better options.
If she was only going to tour occasionally then I would say just rent touring kit for those days. If she was going to tour a significant amount of the time then I would probably be looking at the Agent rather than the Dancer.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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I agree with @snowrider, that it very much depends on the weight and strength. My friend in Meribel also has a 15yo of average build and she is delighted with her Agent 2X as her everyday ski. Don’t overlook the Agent as it’s a very good ski and possibly easier to live with for a young skiier - the carbon stringers do give it a solid feel.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| snowrider wrote: |
| Tristero wrote: |
@Ozboy, @snowrider, thanks very much for your helpful replies! Seems pretty much, that's what I'm searching for: Next ski for my then 14yo daughter who found her love for off-piste skiing, but really needs one ski to do it all (as the trunk-capacity only allows it for daddy to bring two pairs of skis ) .
For this purpose, ski-length same as body-height? Would you consider mounting a frame touring binding? |
If she is heavier built and strong you could go body height. If she is thin and light then go a bit shorter.
Its 2024 so I wouldn't normally consider mounting a frame touring binding on anything.
If you have a suitable used set of bindings and suitable used skins and a tight budget then I can see an argument, but buying new then there are better options.
If she was only going to tour occasionally then I would say just rent touring kit for those days. If she was going to tour a significant amount of the time then I would probably be looking at the Agent rather than the Dancer. |
As it stands, 163cm and 45kg. Don't expect her to gain much in height, a little bit in weight, though. Thought about going up things like Grand Col, Les Arcs, or Gebroulaz, Val Tho, not doing real touring. I don't got the feeling she's really into ski mountaineering, only possibly ski-plus. She could do that in her normal alpine boots. I got suitable skins, but no touring bindings yet. Only TriSteps, which are pin and I don't want her to ski on these in resort. I could cheaply pick up frames in good condition. Can't say that about Shifts.
@Ozboy, thanks again for your input. Agent 2 looks good when you are living at the foot of the mountain. But for us it's mainly holidays and then you gotta take it as it comes, so to speak. I'm not sure if touring ski is the right way to go under these circumstances, even a burlier one.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| snowrider wrote: |
| Tristero wrote: |
@Ozboy, @snowrider, thanks very much for your helpful replies! Seems pretty much, that's what I'm searching for: Next ski for my then 14yo daughter who found her love for off-piste skiing, but really needs one ski to do it all (as the trunk-capacity only allows it for daddy to bring two pairs of skis ) .
For this purpose, ski-length same as body-height? Would you consider mounting a frame touring binding? |
If she is heavier built and strong you could go body height. If she is thin and light then go a bit shorter.
Its 2024 so I wouldn't normally consider mounting a frame touring binding on anything.
If you have a suitable used set of bindings and suitable used skins and a tight budget then I can see an argument, but buying new then there are better options.
If she was only going to tour occasionally then I would say just rent touring kit for those days. If she was going to tour a significant amount of the time then I would probably be looking at the Agent rather than the Dancer. |
As it stands, 163cm and 45kg. Don't expect her to gain much in height, a little bit in weight, though. Thought about going up things like Grand Col, Les Arcs, or Gebroulaz, Val Tho, not doing real touring. I don't got the feeling she's really into ski mountaineering, only possibly ski-plus. She could do that in her normal alpine boots. I got suitable skins, but no touring bindings yet. Only TriSteps, which are pin and I don't want her to ski on these in resort. I could cheaply pick up frames in good condition. Can't say that about Shifts.
@Ozboy, thanks again for your input. Agent 2 looks good when you are living at the foot of the mountain. But for us it's mainly holidays and then you gotta take it as it comes, so to speak. I'm not sure if touring ski is the right way to go under these circumstances, even a burlier one.
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