 Poster: A snowHead
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Has anyone done this? I had a bad fall (face first) in January. Wasn't till I got back that my shoulders starting to feel sore, the right one badly so. The pain goes from the front of my shoulder to my elbow, but is particularly intense when I put my arm out in front of me and try and cross is over or push it out or down (i.e. it really hurts trying to use a corkscrew).
I had some physio, to no avail. Left it a bit as it seemed a bit better. It got worse again and I was recommended a new physio who also suggested an x ray. Have been put on anti-inflammatories by the doctor (which have helped) and the x-ray shows no breaks/cracks. As the physio (5 sessions) has not seen any improvement, she's now put me in touch with a top shoulder specialist and mentioned, scans and being injected with anti-inflammatories or - worse still - surgery. I'm getting really worried now. Has anyone out there experience of this?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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I hurt my shoulder in early Feb. time and physio were of only small benefit. Symptoms not quite the same as yours as I fell on the back of my shoulder. Saw the specialist 2 weeks ago - he reckons tendon damage. Had an MRI last week and am currently awaiting the results.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Thanks steveb. Have been told this morning I'll need an MRI.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Sorry to hear about the injuries folks, but your stories are starting to get me worried. I hurt my shoulder 7 weeks ago and it still hurts like hell when I move my arm in certain directions (laterally rather than frontwards or backwards). Was thinking that I had just strained one of the shoulder ligaments and that, as I understand these things do, it would just get better on it's own. Scans, injections and surgery all sound a lot more serious and a pain in the butt.
Guess I'll give my shoulder another couple of weeks and if it hasn't improved much go visit a doctor.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Shoulder injuries are notorious for long term problems and there's both a dearth of good advice and a glut of poor advice (I’m sure Jonpim will add to this).
The shoulder is a remarkable non fixed joint that relies on 3 bones interlocking to provide mutual suport, it’s close-by major blood vessels and complex nerves and you need to get some VERY informed advice as to healing and repair and that’s AFTER you get at least 2 confirmed diagnosis that match each other.
Three years after mine was destroyed, I’m now being told that I should have had reconstructive surgery at the time (If I’d been a woman this would have been done automatically for ‘cosmetic’ reasons), this would have avoided the discomfort/pain and increasing limited use of the last three years and the proposed new surgery that will relieve the pain but further limit the joint.
Once again, get your diagnosis and then do as much research as you can! (I’ll see if I can find my old links and post them here)
PS. It can take up to 6 months just to recover from a simple or non-displaced shoulder dislocation (pop-out, pop-in) and you will need very regular physio and lots of pain killers but make sure you’re not re-damaging the joint before you start – hence, get as much info as you can!
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Jonpim Thanks for these sites. They look useful. I am seeing a shoulder specialist May 12th for an ultra sound scan and maybe MRI scan if necessary.
Trouble is, patience is not my middle name! As a gardener and rower, my shoulders don't get a lot of rest. 
Hope you had a good time in Val T.
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Having had an MRI and an arthrogram I now know I have a significant tear in my rotator cuff. Thanks Jonpim for the links. I now hope my consultant can do keyhole surgery. Beverley - I hope you don't have what I have.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Best of luck with that Steveb
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steveb How mobile is your arm? (am trying to compare to mine). It is only certain angles that are painful for me (mainly pushing down with my arm slightly outstretched - it shoots pain up the inside of my shoulder). Oh, I hope I don't have to have surgery....this all sounds increasingly drastic to me. My appointment is May 12th, so will know more then.
I do hope everything goes well for you. Good luck.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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steveb, I'm sure your surgeon is very good, and if he does an arthroscopic repair ("keyhole surgery") then fine. But the important thing is a successful repair rather than an elegant operation. A "significant" tear may well require open surgery.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Good luck to Beverley and steveb and you'll be in good hands. Try not to worry too much. In time it will all be sorted!
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Hmmmm, been following this thread with interest. I wrenched my arm sharply upwards about 10 years ago whilst playing football. The pain at time left my right arm almost immobile. The Doc suggested anti inflamatory drugs, and over a long period (8-9 months) the pain subsided, although not entirely abated in certain conditions.
However, bending my right elbow, with my hand level my chest, and then pushing my arm upwards still creates a good degree of discomfort and an inability to sustain upward pressure when a downward force is exerted on my arm. 2 years ago I took a tumble skiing and repeated the wrenching that originally occurred. Since then, the symptoms have grown more and more uncomfortable.
It has been suggested that I may have damaged the rotor muscle. But from the above that may not be the case. Does this "injury" sound familiar? Thanks.
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You know it makes sense.
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Beverley - During the day I can often forget there is anything wrong. It is painful and weak when I lift it above horizontal and is painful sleeping on it. I had to sleep on my wife's side of the bed for a while, which went down well.Fortunately, it seems OK when I go sailing, as that is a lot of pressure on the arm, but all below the horizontal.
Good luck for 12 May.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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A good post rehab program is essential after any surgery and physiotherapy. If you are near London, some of my "cyberfriends" have had good results from this guy:
http://www.daxmoy-pts.co.uk/
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Poster: A snowHead
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Lisa you're indefatigable!!!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Mark Hunter, go and see a shoulder specialist. Book your appointment today. Leaving this problem to get worse will only make the treatment more difficult. There is an excellent Shoulder Unit at Reading (sort of near you).
I am only a humble anaesthetist (but fortunate to work with one of the world's leading shoulder specialists) and so could not make comments on your symptoms.
I have found a few more sites for you (there are thousands out there)
Southern California Orthopedic Institute for sensible unexciting information.
For lots of pretty pictures: JointHealing.Com, but you do not need to buy their $99 shoulder exercise kit. Just get a Luggage Elastic Bungee : with one end on a door handle, face the door with arm in front of the handle, elbow at 90 degrees, and pull the elastic out to the side keeping forearm parallel to the floor. Repetitions of 10-20 twice a day to start with (depending on strength of elastic and your shoulder power).
For good advice on recovery (takes a long time) yourmedicalsource.com is worth looking at.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Jonpim, many thanks indeed. I've just booked an appointment with my GP with an aim to get a referral to the Reading Shoulder Unit - only 12 miles away! It's incredible how we (humans) put up with things with the old "it'll feel better in the morning" attitude. Well enough is enough. Thanks again 
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Been to the consultant today. An ultra sound scan shows no tear, so that's good news.
Deep inflamation/bruising that is rubbing against the shoulder joint at certain angles and so not getting a chance to heal. Have been given an injection which is, apparently, 70% successful. Otherwise, it is keyhole surgery to shave off some bone - but let's not think about that one as it all sounds a bit drastic. Going back in a month.
Very sore and feeling sorry for myself. The Consultant skis and has a place in Italy (at the prices he charges I'm not surprised!) 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Beverley, it sounds like you have Impingement Syndrome (see details on sites I gave you previously). Do the exercises, and fingers crossed. If you have to go for surgery (Arthroscopic Subacromial Decompression - sounds grand doesn't it, but just means shaving about 3-5mm off the bone that is rubbing the tendon) don't worry: the anaesthetists at Reading are excellent.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Oh, just seen reply from Jonpim to Mark Hunter. It is the Reading shoulder specialists that I went to.
Mark, are you private? The NHS list is ages long. I don't have private insurance, but saw Mr Ofrey Levy (the No2) within 3 weeks of referral, as I am paying for the initial consultation/scan/injection (cost = £252) and if it gets to anything mega-expensive like surgery/MRI scans (which are £500) then I can transfer with him to the NHS. The top, top private only guy is Mr Copeland. Good luck!
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Jonpim Thank you for your reassurance. It does all sound a bit drastic for a sore shoulder, but I do want to do ski lots next season, so will have to grin and bear it. 
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Beverley, yeah, going the NHS route and have not heard anything yet. So time to re-consider is fast approaching. Good luck with your shoulder and the treatment. I've just played Badminton for the first time in about 26 years (!) and the shoulder is complaining a tad, so something will have to be sorted if I want to continue.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Mark Hunter, Badminton is not sensible if your shoulder is playing up. If the cuff is at all unhappy all unrestricted over-head "violent" movements are ill-advised.
Instead start doing cuff strengthening exercises with roof-rack elastic. Start today.
I am trying to find a site with a good description. There are sites describing exercises with weights. Don't use weights. Opinion here (RNOH) is weights bad, elastic good. All to do with Open and Closed movements (I got lost here, but surgeon seemed to know what he was on about....).
Beverly craftily jumped the NHS queue. Sometimes just pestering can work as well. Get on to your GP and send some letters. Find out where the shoulder surgeons "play" (bars, clubs, etc.) and manipulate a meeting. Date his secretary.
If all else fails go private.
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Jonpim, you have not seen Mr Levy's secretary. Mark - go private!!!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Ah yes Beverley, you went for Mr Ofrey Levy. I was thinking of Mr Copeland's secretary . 
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Anyone seen my cheque book? To whom and how much?
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You know it makes sense.
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Mark How sore IS your injury? How much are you prepared to pay! 
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Mark,
Copeland is a good opinion and useful for my patients, but he is not the cheapest, Jonpim - thanks for the links some useful stuff.
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Poster: A snowHead
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Jonpim, Mark Hunter, http://www.orthoassociates.com/shoulder1.htm has shoulder exercises using elastics . I am doing them now to help shoulder after fall in Serre Che. Dad-in-law highly recommends them ( retired sports physio).
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Jonpim, was your link I copied from above -inadvertant comma at then end-moderator please edit!!! Has diagrams rather than pics though . OOPS !
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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The main problem with shoulder surgery is that it is still a bit of a black art. Usually with surgery, or other forms of medicine come to that, if there is an approach that it is significantly better than the rest, then it gets to be a well known and commonly used operation available from all surgeons, not just specialists, as is the case with kneee and hip replacements. To the best of my knowledge, in shoulder surgery, this is not the case yet, hence the fact that if you ask ten different surgeons on their approach to an injury, then you will generally get ten different answers. Some of these surgeons will be more skilled than others, and will have better success rates, however there is not, as yet, one simple straightforward approach that leads to a successful outcome in most cases. This is not so much due to a failure of the surgeon, as due to the nature of the injury, and the limits at present, of our technological ability to repair it.
For all of the above reasons, it is important that if you do have a significant shoulder injury, then you must consult with someone who is experienced in the sub-field of shoulder trauma, rather than someone who deals with it intermittently.
A second point is that whilst physiotherapy may not provide a complete cure for your specific injury, it is worth percevering with it, because even if it is necessary to resort to surgical intervention, physiotherapy will have maintained or improved the quality of the tissues to be operated on.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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I know my shoulder feels much better and moves more freely after the ultrasound treatment I'm getting. Don't think it will need surgery though.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Kramer, excellent advice. I could not agree more.
For shoulder problems get a Shoulder Specialist.
Physiotherapy before operation may aid recovery after.
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That sounds like good news Helen. The best type of surgery is often no surgery at all!
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Would have to agree with surgery for your shoulder if it's that bad. Dislocated mine playing rugby 12 odd years back. It was the classic in-out dislocation that Masque was talking about earier in the thread. Didn't seem a problem at the time. (1st doc) A quick week off etc. but ended up doing it agian three days later!
Had 8 weeks of physio that helped alot, but the hospital didn't think that surgery would be needed.
They ended up gaving me the choice of having the sugery and being able to play rugby again (but with another years physio). Apparently the ligaments had stretched not fully returned. Or give the game up for somthing else.
Took up hockey, but still regret it now (the surgery, not the game). But am always aware of it now. It's still the weaker shoulder.
Hope you get it sorted, and the specialist is good.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Thanks for the link, Helen.
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