 Poster: A snowHead
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Well, not quite. I visited Westendorf back in 1988 or so, in another life. I was young, fit, couldn't ski - but didn't give a monkey's so had a great time.....
Now, we are France, mostly 3V, visitors. And I'm old, reasonably fit, can ski a bit - but still looking for a good time.
How does skiing in Austria, say Obergurgl, compare with 3V for size, accessibility etc? We love 3V as it is so large and we can be in a different world every day - and this year we are planing to go away for two weeks. A quick check shows plenty of snow, but it's very cold with immediate forecasts showing blizzards and high winds in some parts. Any idea of expectations for three weeks' time, when we plan to go?
Please treat this (almost) virgin gently...
Last edited by Poster: A snowHead on Sat 26-01-19 12:05; edited 1 time in total
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@t40ora, you need to ditch preconceptions. Mega linked ski areas such as 3V do not exist. The largest linked areas are places like Saalbach, SkiWelt, Ischgl. But that's not really the point here. You can buy an area lift pass here and ski a completely different ski area each day. Ski Amadé pass covers 800km of pistes, Salzburg Super Card something like 2,200km, Tirol card even more. Accessibility is easy, most lift stations are on the valley floor, so you drive there, park up, put your boots on and go. Or use a network of ski busses if you don't want to drive.
Shoe box high rise apartments don't really exist. Apartments are plentiful but they tend to be smaller buildings with family sized apartments. Chalets are less common, hotels and pensions are the majority accommodation. Many of the towns are normal towns, year round businesses, they just happen to have ski mountains too. Some are purpose-built ski stations such as Obertauern and Zauchensee, but it's the exception not the norm.
Ski-in/out accommodation does exist, but it's not a priority here, the majority of visitors bring cars. The disadvantage of being in a hotel or apartment on the mountain is that you might be cut off from the town in the evening. But if you want to use the same ski area every day and don't want to use a car or bus, then look for accommodation close to a lift base station.
The other big difference is altitude. The further east you go, away from Atlantic weather influences, the lower the snowline. Here we call anything about 1500m high, but the snow is often down to 600m or lower. As I'm sure you know already, snowfall has broken a few records this season. I can't say what the weather will be like in three weeks time, but February is the busiest month here with Austrian, Dutch and German semester holidays. There's certainly enough snow to ensure a good long season yet.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| t40ora wrote: |
Well, not quite. I visited Westendorf back in 1988 or so, in another life. I wasnyoung, fit, couldn't ski - but didn't give a monkey's so had a great time.....
Now, we are France, mostly 3V, visitors. And I'm old, reasonably fit, can ski a bit - but still looking for a good time.
How does skiing in Austria, say Obergurgl, compare with 3V for size, accessibility etc? We love 3V as it is so large and we can be in a different world every day - and this year we are planing to go away for two weeks. A quick check shows plenty of snow, but it's very cold with immediate forecasts showing blizzards and high winds in some parts. Any idea of expectations for three weeks' time, when we plan to go?
Please treat this (almost) virgin gently... |
Three weeks time? That is UK half term isn’t it? We are going to the Ski Amade region then 16th Feb, and staying with flangesax in Radstadt. I would be surprised if you are finding much availability for that week?
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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take your euro allowance and put half of it back
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| t40ora wrote: |
Well, not quite. I visited Westendorf back in 1988 or so, in another life. I wasnyoung, fit, couldn't ski - but didn't give a monkey's so had a great time.....
Now, we are France, mostly 3V, visitors. And I'm old, reasonably fit, can ski a bit - but still looking for a good time.
How does skiing in Austria, say Obergurgl, compare with 3V for size, accessibility etc? We love 3V as it is so large and we can be in a different world every day - and this year we are planing to go away for two weeks. A quick check shows plenty of snow, but it's very cold with immediate forecasts showing blizzards and high winds in some parts. Any idea of expectations for three weeks' time, when we plan to go?
Please treat this (almost) virgin gently... |
Obergurgl is quite small. You can go to Solden on the same pass now which is a bigger area, but you need to bus. Obergurgl accessibility for ski in /out is excellent. Lots of older people there...
Ski Amade and the Saalbach area are the biggest interconnected regions. The latter has 4 resorts, and half access to a 5th (Zell Am See). There's more skiing than either I think in the Ziller valley, but you need train/bus between resorts. Somewhere like Ischgl links to Samnaun in Switzerland. very good for intermediates. Another big area is Ski Welt which links (sort of) with Kitzbuhel. It's low and pretty easy.
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@t40ora, what are your dates? If Ski Amadé is of interest to you, then the lovely family flangesax at Radstadt might be able to help (austrian-adventures.com).
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I'd be tempted to go Ski Amade (never been but read good things), Saalbach-Hinterglemm or the Arlberg region (if you like 3 valleys base yourself in Lech or better still Oberlech - both pricey but amazing)
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@t40ora, many moons ago I used to do the overnight drive from Calais to the usual bunch of French resorts, La Plagne, Val / Tignes, PdS, Les Arc, last time was in 3V in the mid 90's. Since then with a few Swiss excursions it has been around Austria.
The resorts are different, in general there are not the kilometres of straight forward corduroy leading back to a purpose built "village" set in the high mountains. Most Austrian resorts are based around an existing village, with a good deal of the skiing below or only just above the tree line. Given it is further east this does not mean less snow or worse conditions, the current situation being a perfect example. I would say that the general holiday ambience is much better in Austria, no soulless piano bars plenty of "Gemütlich" Gasthofs serving Heiße Schokolade with cream cakes or bier and schnapps (depending or what you prefer). In many places the apres needs the stamina of an ox if you are going to try to keep up (try looking for Mooserwirt, Kuhstall or Goassstall on Google).
What Austria in general does not provide is ski out / in locations with immediate access to large skiing areas. There are a few high resorts that are not dissimilar to the French ones eg Obergurgl or Obertauern but the ski areas are on the small side. Much better to stay lower down, access to the skiing might not be as immediate but getting around even without a car is usually no problem at all (despite what you might think the ski buses are usually very well organised and punctual).
Catered chalets are fairly unusual but do exist in a few resorts, most hotels will do half board (veggie should not be an issue these days) and many people choose apartments (far bigger than the shoe boxes that were so common in France).
Some suggestions
Ski Amade - as suggested above covers a very wide area with lots of different villages, maybe look at Flachau or Wagrain
Saalbach Hinterglemm - a large (by Austrian standards) area based around a long valley but now includes the next valley to the north too. A few challenging runs and some off piste but mainly typical Tirolean / Salzburgerland runs through the trees etc.
Kitzbühel / Skiwelt - these two areas are linked, stay in Kirchberg for easy access to both (not the liveliest village for apres and a bit strung out). Kitzbühel has the more challenging skiing. Westendorf is part of Skiwelt.
If you have a car get a super ski card which covers both of the above plus a number of other resorts.
Zillertal - long north south valley with lots of skiing, main town is Mayrhofen and a fair sized glacier at the end of the valley.
Ötztal - another long north south valley with lots of skiing, Sölden is the main focus but there are other places including Obergurgl. Sölden does get mixed reviews on the atmosphere and convenience point of view.
Serfaus / Fiss - a good sized area not well known in UK, reasonably high. They tend to focus on families not so much on raucous apres.
Ischgl - a first rate skiing area, though because most of the skiing is well above the tree line not so good in bad weather, crossing the border into Switzerland to the village of Samnaun. Personally I dont like the "village", every square metre seems to have been developed, it feels more like a shopping mall than an alpine village, lots of apres places often filled with those showing off how much money they have (dubiously acquired.....). However lots of people do like it including lots of Brits.
Arlberg - Austria's biggest and best (subjective!) ski area. Not ideal for those who want quiet straight forward cruising. It can be crowded and noisy. However there is a big variety here from the relatively gentle slopes above Warth to Langerzug the (supposedly) steepest run in Austria. Ski routes set amongst grand alpine scenery leading to picture perfect hamlets. Plenty to challenge everyone from keen intermediates to rubber legged experts. The apres in St Anton is as well known as the skiing.
Lots of other places too, it really does depend on what sort of holiday and skiing will suit you and your friends / family.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Excellent summary @munich_irish.
Ischgl - with careful selection of hotel you can just about ski IN. Almost all central hotels are 4 or 5 star (like Obergurgl) so not cheap. Excellent lift system, but still not up to the standards of Saalbach - which must be the best system in the Alps?
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Thanks all. Lots to digest, and a bit of research needed....
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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Austria, smaller ski areas. If you are used to the 3V, avoid Obergurgl, it is very small (I didnt ski Solden while there). Ive become a big Kitzbuhel fan after many years of skiing The 3V and Tignes areas.
Austria is very clean and efficient, great food, great hospitality, lovely traditional towns and villages and cheaper than France.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| munich_irish wrote: |
| Ischgl - a first rate skiing area, though because most of the skiing is well above the tree line not so good in bad weather, crossing the border into Switzerland to the village of Samnaun. Personally I dont like the "village", every square metre seems to have been developed, it feels more like a shopping mall than an alpine village, lots of apres places often filled with those showing off how much money they have (dubiously acquired.....). However lots of people do like it including lots of Brits. |
My friends and I see Ischgl town differently. Yes the town is intensively developed - but that's because they have blocked themselves from spreading all up and down the valley to keep things compact and villagie, unlike a lot of French village resorts. Yes there are lots of apres places (covering all ages and styles of apres) with people showing off how much money they have - but they are also generally showing off how little class they have which makes the people watching hillarious sometimes. As a Brit you tend to get very good service from bar/restaurant staff as soon as they hear you speak as they know you'll be friendly and polite, and aren't another borish group of Germans or Russians.
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It still seems like a car or buses would be required for a two week ski; am I right?
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You know it makes sense.
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@t40ora, if you really want to make the most of the what's available, then yes having a car is invaluable. But if you simply want a large lift-linked area then Saalbach, Schladming or SkiWelt/Kitz would fit the bill. For me personally, I love the freedom of being able to go to a different place each day I ski. There are still new places I have never been to, but of course plenty of favourites that I keep returning to. Hire cars are not that expensive and the roads are great, very few scary winding ascents.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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3v has a lot of piste km but they are closely packed, Austria tends to be over a similar area but less dense so still a good sense of travel. Openskimap.com will illustrate
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Poster: A snowHead
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| t40ora wrote: |
| It still seems like a car or buses would be required for a two week ski; am I right? |
It depends on where you go. For Ski Amade I would say yes, there is a lot of skiing but it isnt all linked together. If you choose Kirchberg it would be useful to get to Fieberbrunn (part of Saalbach) or Alpbach. However if you go the St Anton or Lech then it would be of little use at all.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@t40ora, As others have commented, “three weeks time” takes you slap bang into the middle of high season and half term holidays - to be avoided if possible, especially if you want ski-in ski-out accommodation in a popular resort.
Saalbach has been suggested by a number of people, and that doesn’t surprise me, as it is the second biggest fully-interlinked ski area in Austria (after the Arlberg), and, like the French 3Vs (which I know very well, having stayed in St Martin de Belleville and Les Menuires at least eight times), it lends itself to daily excursions and long itineraries. Like the 3Vs you can plan daily excursions to different parts of the system, usually involving lunch at one of the 60 or so excellent mountain restaurants, and without doing the same piste twice.
For example, one day you might decide to ski over to Leogang and concentrate on the many excellent runs over there;another day you might cover the Fieberbrunn area; another day you might do the anti-clockwise circuit of the main Saalbach-Hinterglemm valley, which can be done entirely on blue runs and takes about four hours including a lunch break; the following day you might do the clockwise circuit, which involves a few more challenging pistes.
The longest daily circuit (the Ski Circus Challenge) involves visiting all corners of the area (again without skiing the same piste twice), and is reputed to be the longest such circuit in the Alps - it takes about seven hours.
Whilst not as extensive as the 3Vs, you do have 270km of fully-interlinked pistes to go at, with the possibility of a trip or two to nearby Zell am See and/or Kaprun in the unlikely event that you get bored. I spend every winter in Saalbach and the visitors I ski with often comment that they enjoy the feeling of travelling that you get - different destinations each day - like the 3Vs.
I get the impression that you are looking for convenience, as well as an extensive area. There is plenty of slope side, ski-in ski-out accommodation, and with judicious planning you can avoid any need to use ski buses or taxis, although they are available if you need to get from a to b quickly.
If you are interested in this area and would like a copy of my comprehensive, 20 page guide, and also a few suggested itineraries (which many other Snowheads seem to have found useful - unless they were just being kind), PM me your email address.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I would say that St Anton is the place that comes closest to matching the 3 V [in Austria \] now that the link to lech is operational
You have Rendl St Anton Lech Zurs and extra bits I forget.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| TQA wrote: |
I would say that St Anton is the place that comes closest to matching the 3 V [in Austria \] now that the link to lech is operational
You have Rendl St Anton Lech Zurs and extra bits I forget. |
...and St Christoph, Stuben, Warth, and Schröcken. Technically also Zug, but that is really only a transit point on the Weisse Ring. Sonnenkopf is on the same lift ticket, but you need to take a bus from Stuben to get there.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@tatmanstours, thank you - PM sent. And many thanks to all who've replied.
Our only window for skiing this year will be the last two weeks in February, due to my wife's work. So we're kinda stuck with it.
Just for info, is March less busy? I know that in France the whole of February ous bloody half term for someone.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@t40ora, yes is short answer.
There are still holidays available on the TO websites but approx £1k per head for self catering (for 1 week)
Given the weeks I would focus on where you can get vaguely affordable flights ( if planning on flying) and work from there. We are flying into Salzburg with BA sat - sat flying out 16th. The family of 4 would cost £3500 for those flights now
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@NickyJ, Ouch!!
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@t40ora, we certainly wouldn’t be going that week unless we had to.
Only another 9yrs to go....
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@t40ora, if you go out his that second week, you can get BA return flights for two with baggage for £364, and the place we are staying in Haus Susanne looks like it has a coupleof rooms still
https://www.austrian-adventures.com/availabilitycontact.html
My satnav reckons it will take 47mins from the airport. Call it £250 to hire a car.
Then you are free to visit the different areas of the Ski Amadé. Obviously don’t know what it is going to be like yet.... but lots of recommendations for it on here.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@NickyJ, OK, ta. Book-marked! Sorting out the first week, first...
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@NickyJ, thanks! I'm actually speaking with Mike at born2ski about Madonna Di Campiglio, with these flights!
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You know it makes sense.
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| Mjit wrote: |
| As a Brit you tend to get very good service from bar/restaurant staff as soon as they hear you speak as they know you'll be friendly and polite, and aren't another borish group of Germans or Russians. |
Hi-la-ri-ous
You Brits are really getting more and more isolated. In a not so splendid way. That's how we 'continentals' are looking at you currently.
Especially when seeing the embarrassing show in and around your once so much admired parliament.
And the people in Ischgl will probably mostly think: This might be the last winter those Brits are able to pay it.....
Seriously, I'm not yoking. This is the general feeling here. Not so much of 'polite Brits' anymore...
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@Langerzug, A bit of thread-drift there, but not surprised by what you say. Austrian (and other European) ski resorts should however be concerned if the Brits can no longer afford to come skiing - a large proportion of their income is generated by British skiers, especially in Austria, where reliance on international tourism is higher than elsewhere. (Perhaps these comments would be better on the "Brexit" thread?)
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Poster: A snowHead
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| tatmanstours wrote: |
| @Langerzug, A bit of thread-drift there, but not surprised by what you say. Austrian (and other European) ski resorts should however be concerned if the Brits can no longer afford to come skiing - a large proportion of their income is generated by British skiers, especially in Austria, where reliance on international tourism is higher than elsewhere. (Perhaps these comments would be better on the "Brexit" thread?) |
A Brexit thread...give me strength... (Skiing two weeks ago with someone who bought his skis from Glissop and voted Brexit - pointed out that these would cost him more after Brexit with import duty...)
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Langerzug wrote: |
| Mjit wrote: |
| As a Brit you tend to get very good service from bar/restaurant staff as soon as they hear you speak as they know you'll be friendly and polite, and aren't another borish group of Germans or Russians. |
Hi-la-ri-ous
You Brits are really getting more and more isolated. In a not so splendid way. That's how we 'continentals' are looking at you currently.
Especially when seeing the embarrassing show in and around your once so much admired parliament.
And the people in Ischgl will probably mostly think: This might be the last winter those Brits are able to pay it.....
Seriously, I'm not yoking. This is the general feeling here. Not so much of 'polite Brits' anymore... |
Thankfully none of the 'continentals' I know, or have ever interactive with personally share your inability to respond to a thread.
Do they understand many of the reason that drove 51.9% of those enfranchied who chose to express their opinion to vote leave? Yes, most of them do, even if, like the 48.1% they don't agree with them.
Do I think bar and restaurant staff in Ischgl will prefer to serve customers (of any nationality) who treat them with politeness and respect, rather than as servants or sex objects? Yes
Do I expect to walk in to the Kitzloch in a few Saturdays time to be recognised and receive a friendly greating from Arno and Boris and asked which days we'll be coming in this week/how many people so they can reserve us seats? Yes.
Do I expect to walk in to the Trofanna Royal hotel bar and politely order some civilized drinks and get friendly, attentive service...unlike the Russian family letting their children run riot who stick their hand up and click their fingers when they want more drinks.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Back to the origional point. The Brixen/Westendorf area provides easy access to Ski Welt and Kitzbuhl/ Kirchberg areas and a lift pass covering both is available for a huge amount of skiing.
Also German and Austrian skiers are friendly, all seem to speak good English and like Brits.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| spenney wrote: |
Back to the origional point. The Brixen/Westendorf area provides easy access to Ski Welt and Kitzbuhl/ Kirchberg areas and a lift pass covering both is available for a huge amount of skiing.
Also German and Austrian skiers are friendly, all seem to speak good English and like Brits. |
By easy access, do you mean by planks, or bus/car?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@t40ora, both. You can ski to Ki West at the end of the Westendorf skiing from where a very regular shuttle bus takes you to the Pengelstein lift. Alternatively it is easy to get to Kitzbühel by bus or train (covered by the lift pass) or car.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Lech.
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Gesundheit?
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FAQ
