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Guardian: future of Brit ski tourism

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Especially for Stanton

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/dec/18/brexit-thousands-ski-resort-jobs-at-risk

Lights blue touch paper and quickly skis off Twisted Evil
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@munich_irish, Already been posted, but in the Brexit thread.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Discussed at length on the Brexit thread. It's hardly a shock is it.

Add to that the manufacturing and pharmaceutical job losses in the UK as businesses continue to migrate their operations to the EU.
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Does Project Fear and Self-Loathing ever give up...

Pretty much every prediction about Brexit so far has not come true.

This is another one that will not happen.

The French are not about to give up such a big revenue source to a poor region.

Currently in the 3Vs this week, and every other skier on the hill is a freakin' Brit.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
“Pretty much every prediction about Brexit so far has not come true.“

That’s because we haven’t left yet. Just sayin’ Very Happy
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Quote:

Pretty much every prediction about Brexit so far has not come true.

Yep, not a single one of these free trade deals with the rest of the world has even started being presented never mind in place despite the international trade secretary flying all over the place trying to start some discussion

As as for project fear - Turkey and Syria etc were never going to be allowed to join the EU - it was just project fear.

Lets face it leaving the EU was never a good idea and just because 37% of the adult population voted for it it doesn't really mean we should do it.
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Whitegold wrote:
Does Project Fear and Self-Loathing ever give up...


They will give up when Project Denial/Project La La, Can't Hear And Will Blaim Someone/Something Else Anyway gives up.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
As mentioned in the other thread, British nationals worked in Europe before there was an EU. So I assume that at some point there will be agreements hammered out to allow it.

I am not British, nonetheless I feel like Brexit is a big mistake, because I don't think the voters were honestly and fairly informed of the facts. The Leavers heard what they wanted to hear, and the Remainers didn't listen to what the Leavers were saying...

But hey, we Americans elected Trump, so probably best to assume it will happen at some point and try to make the best of it.
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"Does Project Fear and Self-Loathing ever give up... "

Apparently not Smile

All the doom and gloom is a load of bollox. Anyone who is actually running a business that does foreign trade will already know that.
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@Pasigal, it is lot different to 40 years ago..another world

Work Regulation (Visas) have become much stricter within EU especially within last 5 years..
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Quote:

Anyone who is actually running a business that does foreign trade will already know that.

Today is a particularly daft day to post that, given the headlines this morning. rolling eyes
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I do find it funny that people talk about "Brexit doom mongering" not coming true, several months before we leave. Just as well there's something funny about....
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Whitegold wrote:
Does Project Fear and Self-Loathing ever give up...

Pretty much every prediction about Brexit so far has not come true.

This is another one that will not happen.

The French are not about to give up such a big revenue source to a poor region.

Currently in the 3Vs this week, and every other skier on the hill is a freakin' Brit.


Utter crap. To say nothing has happened is to deny what is happening? Project fear never predicted that there would be a need to put 3,500 military personnel on the streets to "manage" Brexit. What countries put military onto the streets? The Remainers predicted that businesses would leave the UK - so far we have had Rolls Royce, Jaguar Land Rover indicate they are moving. There are countless others that will shift the next contract away from the UK.

As for the French not allowing? They will. They have already legislated re minimum wage and whilst they may approve a specific number of temporary work visa's it will depend mostly on what rights the UK offers EU citizens. The industry wont collapse, but the Chalet business model will be overhauled.

As for being in the 3V and there being lots of Brit's 2 responses 1) how many are staying in a catered chalet; and of course we haven't f*ckin left yet
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
I think we are all forgetting a central tenant of the Brexit argument “faith not facts” No matter how sensible staying in the EU is or what the actual forecasts say let’s leave the EU for the shear hell of it. But in the meantime, as one prominent Brexit proponent has done, let’s move our own money to Ireland. Let the people suffer but not us personally.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
johnE wrote:
...But in the meantime, as one prominent Brexit proponent has done, let’s move our own money to Ireland. Let the people suffer but not us personally.


Don't be so unfair to the odious Rees-Mogg, all the other champions of the true British working class, Arron Banks, Barclay Brothers et Al have their favoured off shore havens for cash
https://www.theguardian.com/news/2017/nov/09/brexiters-put-money-offshore-tax-haven
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Quote:

Lets face it leaving the EU was never a good idea and just because 37% of the adult population voted for it it doesn't really mean we should do it.


But less than 35% who voted to remain is a firm mandate then ?
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
I am one of the 48% who are bereft of giving up the part of my identity that is European, I love Europe, Europeans and I have enjoyed frictionless travel and business since the 70’s. I have to learn how to respect the Brexit vote, but I struggle to see that the majority voted for Hard Brexit, in fact I struggle to see exactly what the majority did vote for ... to this day the likes of Farage are incapable of defining exactly what Brexit is.

Whilst I have to and will respect the workings of our democracy, what really irks me is some Brexiteers complete lack of respect to the 63% who don’t share their opinion.

Incidentally, in my business, which is mostly EEA based, I have absolutely no doubt that the amount of work carried out by U.K. skilled workers will be hugely reduced, as will the influence of the U.K. in the decision making process.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@DavidYacht, Just curious as to why you've made the assumption that the 13 million eligible voters who didn't vote were all remainers ?

By the same logic you could say that in 1975 , 57% of the adult population never wanted to join in the first place.

I never wanted to leave, but I respect the result of a democratic vote.
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DavidYacht wrote:
Whilst I have to and will respect the workings of our democracy, what really irks me is some Remainers complete lack of respect to the 66% who don’t share their opinion.


FIFY Toofy Grin
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63% did not share the Brexiteers opinion either to remain, or strongly enough to vote. Perhaps voting should be compulsory, then a marginal mandate might carry more weight in public opinion?
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It might not be so bad......I read today that there is increasing support for "Frexit" in France.
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I very much doubt brexit has anything to do with the future of ski tourism other than an excuse. Every poorly run business blames Brexit at the moment rather than their own lousy management - that is the nature of management - look for excuses rather than at yourself.

The reality is that skiing has become a relatively more expensive pursuit and other than by big sacrifice only the well paid metropolitan elite can afford it. You can get x weeks bucket and spade holidays with warm weather in Turkey or Spain for the price of a week's skiing with, in some cases, better service, cheaper drink and better food and that is before the price gouging at half term and school holday times.

It is not unreasonable that there has been a clamp down on cheap labour in chalets, which has nothing to do with Brexit - some of us will lament the loss of the traditional chalet holiday but in a civilised world we should not trade on poorly paid labour against in country norms.

Would the depreciation of sterling have taken place without brexit - probably yes because as a country our goods and services were not competitive for whatever reason as evidenced by a large balance of payments deficit. But there has been significant inflation in euro priced ski costs - lift pass prices have risen inexorably, ski hire costs seem to have risen and because of demand as much as anything hotel prices have risen and chalet costs have increased. Arguably supply has reduced as the wealthy elites have purchased more in resort properties for their personal use.

It might also be argued that as the world generally has become more prosperous with the rise of the middle class metropolitan elite (don't mention this to a young italian or spaniard who has been left dangling in horrendous youth unemployment) that demand for ski holidays has risen and despite whatever other moans Europe is incredibly well serviced by well invested ski resorts. It may be we are substituting the young with the more middle aged and middle class as skiers.

Frankly when you read on here some of the costs of taking a family of four on a ski holiday - a lot of people I know have no chance of affording it but might be able to scrape a week in the sun in summer or just take the tent to Cornwall.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
It is amazing how many sneering Brits want to defy the democratic will of their people!

It is amazing how many Brits prefer to be ruled by unelected egomaniacs as an EU colony.

It is amazing how many mindless Brits parrot Project Fear and Self-Loathing because of the cool soundbites.

The fact is this -- pretty much every single major Western economy outside the EU is richer than those inside it.

Once you're free of the bloated EU straitjacket, you can breathe freely to innovate.

You do not need to be ruled by Berlin and Brussels.

US, Switzerland, Norway, Australia, etc... all much richer.

Not to mention Jersey, Guernsey and Isle of Man... Right on your own doorstep... Among the very richest nations on Earth... and outside the EU wink
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It's amazing what a repetitive boring and worthless troll Whitegold is.
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FrediKanoute wrote:
What countries put military onto the streets?


France, we've had them on the streets for years now. Army, paramilitary units, EU flagged armoured cars equipped with 7.62mm machine guns, chemical weapons used on the populace, water canon, stun grenades. It's a regular little war zone.
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'Pretty much every prediction about Brexit so far has not come true.'

Not true. The trade-weighted £ was predicted to drop. It did, 20%, and is still down around 12%. It was predicted that imports would cost more. They did. £82bn in 2017 (BoE) extra paid out thanks to the Leave devaluation (that's £3800 per household, £900 directly, £2900 to industry). And that the boost to exports would be minimal. It was, the £82bn gap includes a limp and short-lived exports rise thanks to lower £ pricing, soon disappearing when manufacturers had to replenish stock at higher prices. It was predicted that money would move out of the UK. It did. 2017 was the first time in 20 years more money left the UK than was invested here.

Cue the "But it's not about the money, anyway." mantra ... actually, it is. So you like the Switzerland model? Fine, but they had to accept Freedom of Movement: every alternative model has at least one element to it that's anathema to the ERG nutters.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
LaForet wrote:
'Pretty much every prediction about Brexit so far has not come true.'

Not true. The trade-weighted £ was predicted to drop. It did, 20%, and is still down around 12%. It was predicted that imports would cost more. They did. £82bn in 2017 (BoE) extra paid out thanks to the Leave devaluation (that's £3800 per household, £900 directly, £2900 to industry). And that the boost to exports would be minimal. It was, the £82bn gap includes a limp and short-lived exports rise thanks to lower £ pricing, soon disappearing when manufacturers had to replenish stock at higher prices. It was predicted that money would move out of the UK. It did. 2017 was the first time in 20 years more money left the UK than was invested here.


This looks at some of the economic forecasting around Brexit
Quote:
Economic forecasts often get a lot of criticism for being inaccurate. We’ve written before about the OBR’s consistently over-optimistic forecasts and also how employment rose post-referendum in contrast with the Treasury’s forecast employment would fall.

But it does seem that once it became clear we were leaving the EU, economists forecasted the impact of the referendum vote on GDP fairly accurately over the space of two years―although the difference in how quickly economic growth slowed down is still important.
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Whitegold wrote:
It is amazing how many sneering Brits want to defy the democratic will of their people!

It is amazing how many Brits prefer to be ruled by unelected egomaniacs as an EU colony.

It is amazing how many mindless Brits parrot Project Fear and Self-Loathing because of the cool soundbites.

The fact is this -- pretty much every single major Western economy outside the EU is richer than those inside it.

Once you're free of the bloated EU straitjacket, you can breathe freely to innovate.

You do not need to be ruled by Berlin and Brussels.

US, Switzerland, Norway, Australia, etc... all much richer.

Not to mention Jersey, Guernsey and Isle of Man... Right on your own doorstep... Among the very richest nations on Earth... and outside the EU wink


Hope you get your no deal disorderly Brexit. Cause it will be the last think the UK does! Laughing
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
I'm all for respecting freedom of speech and consideration of other people's views but honestly, if you still think Brexit is a good idea you're a massive wally.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Anticipating a hard Brexit, France has passed emergency legislation to allow British nationals to continue working in France, and also to ensure that power transmission continues through French territory.

So...I do think agreements will be struck to keep most structures in place. Whatever I think about Brexit, i think the ship has sailed. But as Britain never really wanted to be in the EU and didn't adapt the euro, I don't actually think it's a loss to anyone.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
grumpygargoyle wrote:
...if you still think Brexit is a good idea you're a massive wally.


An great way of antagonising a large group of people and instantly having everyone disregard your comments. Believe me, we're not Wally's.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Whitegold wrote:


Currently in the 3Vs this week, and every other skier on the hill is a freakin' Brit.


God damn it man. Are you crazy? It rains every second day in Europe’s ski resorts, the people are nuts, the EU’s worse than the Stasi and you came to France?!?!?!?!
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Whitegold wrote:


US, Switzerland, Norway, Australia, etc... all much richer.



Both Norway and Switzerland’s governments recommended Full EU participation as in their countries interests but their electorate rejected the recommendation, hence their current arrangements. Funny isn’t it that the Governments of these countries were happy to be « ruled by Berlin and Brussels ». You really think the people, led by Boris and JRM know better?
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manicpb wrote:
grumpygargoyle wrote:
...if you still think Brexit is a good idea you're a massive wally.


An great way of antagonising a large group of people and instantly having everyone disregard your comments. Believe me, we're not Wally's.


I would be interested to know why you appear to think that Brexit is a good idea. Can you please tell me how it will benefit our country. I look forward to reading your reply
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Rabbie wrote:
manicpb wrote:
grumpygargoyle wrote:
...if you still think Brexit is a good idea you're a massive wally.


An great way of antagonising a large group of people and instantly having everyone disregard your comments. Believe me, we're not Wally's.


I would be interested to know why you appear to think that Brexit is a good idea. Can you please tell me how it will benefit our country. I look forward to reading your reply


because the EU is a bunch of wallys Laughing
another word beginning with W would probably fail the sensorship Skullie
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@Mr.Egg, I was asking @manicpb. You have never given me a single benefit of Brexit despite several requests. I am sure there is a sensible Brexiteer out there who can list the benefits. The marked silence to this request does make me question if there are in fact any tangible benefits.
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The wallies at the EU are pretty much owning our fine elected representatives. What does that make them? Laughing
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Pasigal wrote:
Anticipating a hard Brexit, France has passed emergency legislation to allow British nationals to continue working in France, and also to ensure that power transmission continues through French territory.

So...I do think agreements will be struck to keep most structures in place. Whatever I think about Brexit, i think the ship has sailed. But as Britain never really wanted to be in the EU and didn't adapt the euro, I don't actually think it's a loss to anyone.


When push comes to shove, the EU needs a hard Brexit to work nearly as much as we do, and I think bits of emergency legislation like this will pop up as required.

And yes, only 43% of the electorate actually voted to join in the first place.
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Rabbie wrote:
manicpb wrote:
grumpygargoyle wrote:
...if you still think Brexit is a good idea you're a massive wally.


An great way of antagonising a large group of people and instantly having everyone disregard your comments. Believe me, we're not Wally's.


I would be interested to know why you appear to think that Brexit is a good idea. Can you please tell me how it will benefit our country. I look forward to reading your reply


Sorry, I only casually come on here. I seem to have a lot less time to waste arguing on internet forums than I used to (which I really used to enjoy).

The main benefits I see to leaving the EU is the chances it'll give British young people. It is the immigration issue I'm afraid, warehouses and cleaning companies are swamped with eastern European workers and most I believe aren't interested in settling here, they wish to earn enough to buy a place to live outright in their own country and retire young. Now fair play to them for taking the opportunity but whilst here it causes rent prices, and in turn house prices, to reach a level out of touch for most. Especially when the agency's can get away with minimum wage contracts keeping our own unskilled on the lowest wages going.

Yes the economy may take a hit, but it's not the fact we want to leave the EU I find embarrassing, it's the fact our economy is built upon cheap European labour.
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Hmm ... many official reports out there that show migration is a net benefit to the economy. The house price fiasco is a result of Govt. buy-to- let Policy, greedy baby boomers and massive underinvestment in new and affordable housing. I could go on but for once going to work is a better use of time (until Ischgl on Boxing Day... thought I’d better get some ski chat in Twisted Evil Twisted Evil ).
Blaming East Europeans for the economic mess that Britain is in is disingenuous. Even if true their contribution to the lack of opportunities for young people would be teeny compared to the rest. And employers seem to think Brits won’t do those jobs. Fair enough so they put the wages up and the we in turn pay more. Most Brits will again be upset...
Time to go...
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