 Poster: A snowHead
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Hello all,
I ended up getting screwed on a pair of demo skis, so am looking for advice on how to avoid this in the future.
---------Story Time---------
End of 16/17 season I go to a demo day, and fall in love with the Blizzard Brahmas. I ended up renting the demos for a day, and decided to get a pair.
The local Blizzard dealer informs me their 2018 model (the next season's model, so I figured they couldn't be that well-used) demo skis are going up for sale. I asked them two questions: 1. How many days on them, and 2. How many grinds on them. They go look on the computer and say they've been rented 10 times. They then look at the bases and declare they've still got the factory ground. I happily pay $600 USD for these skis with bindings, and go on my way.
Fast-forward to now (one 30-day season later, not a single grind since I bought them, and I even declined the free grind they offered me with the skis, as the bases were good). I get a shallow scratch from a rock this weekend, and see fiberglass peeking through along its length. The rock hit is so shallow it's hard to even measure with my digital calipers - best I can tell is about 0.1mm deep. So they ground these things to hell and lied to my face, saying they still had the factory grind.
Looking at the height of the edges, my untrained eye lead me to believe there was plenty of depth to the bases.
---------End Story---------
So... how does one tell how many grinds a ski has/how deep the bases are?
Also, any other advise for what to watch out for would be more than welcome.
Thanks
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Doesn’t sound great but seeing as you managed a season with hardly a scratch on them, you’ll probably get another season out of them and can then justify a new pair which you could get for less than euro500 on Sport Conrad. Second hand skis from a shop is a bit of a mugs game IMO - as they only sell skis when they’re knackered.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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I'd love to get all my skis lightly base ground, but wouldn't trust a shop here to do it! They're more likely to grind the s#it out of them to make them look "like new"..........
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Unsure of a reliable quick method of judging just how much base has been removed compared to new, but comparing to unused sample if available would give some indication.
It's often debated on here about how well hire skis area prepared for the user and if they've been freshly ground and edged, guess we can't have it both ways. By their nature hire fleets are going to generally have had more work on them, so in spite of verbal promises it would be a default to assume that to be the case, ie that a number of grinds had taken place.
Whether the price difference is worth it is down to each situation really. If you buy new then you can control exactly what happens to them and mitigate the total cost over projected use period. The deal in front of you for used must be balanced against that scenario and many times I doubt it will stand up.
It looks like there are better deals in new old stock skis IF you can get something you want/interesting. Or via a source that can offer you something with complete knowledge of its history and wiling to back that up with reasonable restricted warranty coverage in balance of it being a used item. Some of test fleets are offered on here from reliable source which would give more confidence, but obviously UK based.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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In my previous life as a ski man, we'd get a whole season out of a set of rental skis, giving them a light tickle over the stone once a week.........
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@ski3, I do hope so, as I pick mine up in 11 days 
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| Quote: |
Second hand skis from a shop is a bit of a mugs game IMO - as they only sell skis when they’re knackered.
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Depends - this has not been my experience:
1. shops often sell off slightly unusual skis that have not rented well, if these are what you want you can get real bargains
2. even quite well used skis can be great buys for kids as they will grow out of them before they wear them out - e.g., my daughters last pair were 80 Euro, she got six weeks on them and we sold them for £40. TBH they were in really good nick when we sold them too
3. If you look at the sales rack and there is nothing you fancy then it is worth asking in the hire shop. We've known them to respond by walking us over to the hire racks, pulling us out a few suitable options and offering us very sensible prices. Often shops just want to keep stock turning over
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| jedster wrote: |
| Quote: |
Second hand skis from a shop is a bit of a mugs game IMO - as they only sell skis when they’re knackered.
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Depends - this has not been my experience:
1. shops often sell off slightly unusual skis that have not rented well, if these are what you want you can get real bargains
2. even quite well used skis can be great buys for kids as they will grow out of them before they wear them out - e.g., my daughters last pair were 80 Euro, she got six weeks on them and we sold them for £40. TBH they were in really good nick when we sold them too
3. If you look at the sales rack and there is nothing you fancy then it is worth asking in the hire shop. We've known them to respond by walking us over to the hire racks, pulling us out a few suitable options and offering us very sensible prices. Often shops just want to keep stock turning over |
ive had nothing but bargains .. hardly skied on offerings for a fraction of the price ... brand new skis from a shop is a bit of a mugs game IMO as in general they are overpriced bits of kit that people are marketed into buying, cant use for purpose vs cost ie which they dont need, and invariably sell on at a wasteful loss ..
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@limegreen1, not invariably...i haven't sold mine at all. They were a bargain though and I bought 2 pairs, one to keep in Austria and one for home.
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The top sheet and bindings would tell you a lot about how much a ski had been used, particularly the heel binding where a pole tip has been used to 'release'
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@ElectroPulse, I think you were unlucky
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| jedster wrote: |
| Quote: |
Second hand skis from a shop is a bit of a mugs game IMO - as they only sell skis when they’re knackered.
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Depends - this has not been my experience:
1. shops often sell off slightly unusual skis that have not rented well, if these are what you want you can get real bargains
2. even quite well used skis can be great buys for kids as they will grow out of them before they wear them out - e.g., my daughters last pair were 80 Euro, she got six weeks on them and we sold them for £40. TBH they were in really good nick when we sold them too
3. If you look at the sales rack and there is nothing you fancy then it is worth asking in the hire shop. We've known them to respond by walking us over to the hire racks, pulling us out a few suitable options and offering us very sensible prices. Often shops just want to keep stock turning over |
Fair enough on something unusual or kids skis that don’t see too much wear but a popular adult ski in a decent ski shop should see pretty heavy use in a season by renters not concerned about treating them with care. Round here the shops put even the 2nd hand prices pretty high and they are typically for older models. For 2nd hand, private sale via FB groups can work, although you’re at the mercy of what’s available. For someone doing a season/several weeks who’s a bit choosy frankly don’t think you can beat the Sport Conrad deals on sets. In the example above he could have got a brand new set cheaper than the 2nd hand deal from an in resort shop
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| limegreen1 wrote: |
ive had nothing but bargains .. hardly skied on offerings for a fraction of the price ... brand new skis from a shop is a bit of a mugs game IMO as in general they are overpriced bits of kit that people are marketed into buying, cant use for purpose vs cost ie which they dont need, and invariably sell on at a wasteful loss .. |
You make quite some assumptions there! Care to provide some examples of these top, hardly used skis that shops are giving away for a dime?
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You know it makes sense.
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| KenX wrote: |
| In my previous life as a ski man, we'd get a whole season out of a set of rental skis, giving them a light tickle over the stone once a week......... |
As you say, some know what they are doing and complete it with intelligent skill. I've not run a base grinding machine but seen some making what appears to be pretty hefty cuts to bases, also some with more or less "tractor tread" patterns from out of balance stones.
I'm more experienced in metal surface grinders in which similar principles apply. Balancing the wheels first, then refinishing wheel surface with diamond cut and then grind close to dimension. Final light dress of wheel and miniscule surface cut to give a refined surface finish grind.
Our family skis last alot longer with minimal base refinishing unless damage occurs. Generally I'll lightly clean bases by hand method at season end then prep for storage.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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$600 for ex demo skis - they saw you coming!
Take em back and say their representation of 0 grinds was of the essence of the contract and be prepared to stand in the shop making a big noise in front of other customers until they make it right.
FWIW the last pair of demos I bought were from a store in the US and would be lucky if they'd been hired out 2 days. I paid $300 after a bit of haggling.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
$600 for ex demo skis - they saw you coming!
Take em back and say their representation of 0 grinds was of the essence of the contract and be prepared to stand in the shop making a big noise in front of other customers until they make it right.
FWIW the last pair of demos I bought were from a store in the US and would be lucky if they'd been hired out 2 days. I paid $300 after a bit of haggling. |
Yea, looking back it was a bit high... if they'd been truthful about the condition though, I would've been fine with it (I liked the feel of them, which according to reviews was drastically different from that current year's model. I would've been looking at least a couple hundred more for a new set at the time, seeing as they were the next season's model).
A year and a half out though, I don't know that they would do anything about it, considering I didn't get that in writing...
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So really, is there no actual way to tell how many grinds a pair of skis has on them without a new one to compare it to? Do companies publish edge thickness numbers so I can compare with calipers?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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You should be able to tell how much has been ground off by looking at the edges. If there is hardly any metal left on the sidewalls, they've had a serious grind.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Quote: |
You should be able to tell how much has been ground off by looking at the edges. If there is hardly any metal left on the sidewalls, they've had a serious grind.
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Hmm, don't think I could - trouble is different models start out with different thicknesses of metal visible in their sidewalls. Also is it still the case that some ski manufacturers make rental versions of their popular models with thicker bases and sidewalls to take more grinds (something I once read somewhere on some dubious skiing forum I think  )
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| bar shaker wrote: |
| You should be able to tell how much has been ground off by looking at the edges. If there is hardly any metal left on the sidewalls, they've had a serious grind. |
Due to the numerous different edge stock profiles on the market that is a poor indicator of how much base thickness is remaining.
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