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Fat lad with burning quads

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
So my thighs / quads burn like hell when I ski. I suspect this is mainly down to technique but partially due to being around 100Kg and 5'9 with shortish legs and a longish upper body.
This odd part seems to be this issue is exaggerated hugely on shallow slopes (easy blues). I can ski a moderate red slope fine with the expected amount of unfitness showing but then the straight shallow blue run back down to the lift kills me with my thighs feeling like they are almost ready to cramp up to the point I need to stop especially towards the end of the day. It doesn't seem to matter if i try to move my weight forward or back to relieve the pain whilst skiing.

I skied once a year with 4 weeks of instructed skiing over 4 years around 15 years ago (school trips) and then the last 4 years skiing for a week each year without an instructor. I feel I am an intermediate (what ever that means) skiing fairly confidently on on most slopes just not particularly quickly on steeper reds and blacks.

I've read a bit on this topic but couldn't find much reference to people suffering specifically on shallower slopes and hoped somebody may be able to give me some advice based on that info.

If there are any more details which may be helpful please ask.

Thanks in advance and apologies if my searching skills aren't up to much and this has been covered previously!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Your probably inadvertently leaning back, flex your knees and press your shins into your boots, it maybe useful to ensure your hands are out in front of you. I’m no expert and others will give more Plausible/accurate explanations.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Lessons, lessons, lessons........ Smile

Take at least one lesson with a good instructor who can set you on the right road.
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sj1608 wrote:
Lessons, lessons, lessons........ Smile

Take at least one lesson with a good instructor who can set you on the right road.


I was hoping to see if anyone could aim me in the right direction here and then get at least 1 or 2 lessons at an indoor slope before I go away again in March. I am in west London so MK or Hemmel would both be options but I need to look into how their lessons work.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Lessons/Fitness/Concentrate on skiing "stacked".....where your skeleton holds you up/takes the strain, rather than your muscles.

Darren Turner mentions it here (after about 55 secs) ....even if your skiing is not at this level, it will give you an idea of the concept:


http://youtube.com/v/W2x3BFhNUGg
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An elderly Scottish instructor once told me that "when you ski you must stand on your feet". A lot of the time we don't - we lean on our equipment. Try standing on the balls of your feet.
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Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
It may not just be forward/backward balance - a rigid stance on an easy slope with few turns can induce feelings of cramp! As per the advice above, time spent with a good instructor now will make a huge difference to your future skiing enjoyment.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Charliee wrote:
Your probably inadvertently leaning back, flex your knees and press your shins into your boots, it maybe useful to ensure your hands are out in front of you. I’m no expert and others will give more Plausible/accurate explanations.


This seems to be the most common reason this happens but I actively try to bend my knees and get my weight forward on the skis based on what I remember from my previous lessons. I rarely feel I end up sitting back when skiing but I really feel it when I do usually due to being caught off guard by an unexpected bump or when I get lazy with my skiing.

Just a note to add when squatting the range of movement in my ankle allows me to get my upper leg just about horizontal before my heels lift or I start to topple over backwards. I think this puts me in the normal range of ankle movement category albeit in the lower part of the range?
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PaddyM wrote:
... but I actively try to bend my knees and get my weight forward ...
If you bend your knees too much your weight moves backwards not forwards, and you end up with an overly flexed stance. You might well be well balanced fore/aft, but if you are very flexed your muscles are going to have to work much harder to hold you upright.
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It's about now i'm starting regret refusing to let me girlfriend video me skiing!
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I like to think of flexing ankles, rather than knees.

I also think I'm right in saying that all your angles should match.....ie. Angle at ankles, should match the angle at knees and the angle of upper body to hips. @rob@rar, will hopefully correct me if I'm wrong.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Voltarol Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Toofy Grin
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Old Fartbag wrote:
I also think I'm right in saying that all your angles should match.....ie. Angle at ankles, should match the angle at knees and the angle of upper body to hips. @rob@rar, will hopefully correct me if I'm wrong.
I think it's a bit difficult to say that angles should match as there will be plenty of time when one of the three principle joints flexes more than the other. In generally we want those three joints to work in proportion to each other, so that flexion and extension of our legs does not push our centre of mass too far behind our base of support, generally speaking, doesn't push our hips behind our heels.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
PaddyM wrote:
It's about now i'm starting regret refusing to let me girlfriend video me skiing!
Yes, that would have given us a bit more to work with Laughing

There are normally a couple of reasons why people get a lot of thigh pain: insufficient flex of the ankle joint (often partnered with excessive flex of the knee); and/or an ineffective movement at the start of the turn. There can be other reasons, including equipment related, so it's worth having someone with an experienced eye taking a look at your skiing to determine what the cause is, and what the solution might be.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Could be technique. Could be gear. Check how much forward lean you have in your boots and also the circumference of your calves.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
When my thighs start hurting it's inevitably because I'm leaning back. I find it useful to remind myself to keep my thighs fairly upright. So bum is over feet/bindings, not hanging back. People used to keep telling me to keep "weight forward" but that didn't click with me - I just tended to shove hands and shoulders forward, bum back. Look at yourself in a mirror.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
rob@rar wrote:
Old Fartbag wrote:
I also think I'm right in saying that all your angles should match.....ie. Angle at ankles, should match the angle at knees and the angle of upper body to hips. @rob@rar, will hopefully correct me if I'm wrong.
I think it's a bit difficult to say that angles should match as there will be plenty of time when one of the three principle joints flexes more than the other. In generally we want those three joints to work in proportion to each other, so that flexion and extension of our legs does not push our centre of mass too far behind our base of support, generally speaking, doesn't push our hips behind our heels.

Thanks for the reply.

I still think (without getting out a protractor), it has value. It came up in one of my lessons, a while ago. IMO. It's not a bad image to have in your head, even if there is a degree of flexibility (pun intended) in its application.
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
pam w wrote:
When my thighs start hurting it's inevitably because I'm leaning back. I find it useful to remind myself to keep my thighs fairly upright. So bum is over feet/bindings, not hanging back. People used to keep telling me to keep "weight forward" but that didn't click with me - I just tended to shove hands and shoulders forward, bum back. Look at yourself in a mirror.

I never got on with "get your weigh forward", which lightened the tails too much ....I much prefer, "Pull your feet back underneath you". I also find that if I get uncomfortable at speed....it is often because my arms are not forward enough.
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gorilla wrote:
Could be technique. Could be gear. Check how much forward lean you have in your boots and also the circumference of your calves.


So would you suggest too much or too little forward lean on ski boots could cause that?
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I changed boots, did the leg blasters for a few weeks and was able to ski top to bottom of runs with no stops. Old boots = leg stops too often. I was similar weight / height. Too much forward lean was mine.

PLenty time to do some blasters before March.
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PaddyM wrote:
gorilla wrote:
Could be technique. Could be gear. Check how much forward lean you have in your boots and also the circumference of your calves.


So would you suggest too much or too little forward lean on ski boots could cause that?
If your boots push you forward (or the heel unit of your bindings is significantly higher than the toe unit) your body can subconsciously compensate by dropping your hips backwards in an effort find balance. This means your quad muscles are working harder than necessary.
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rob@rar wrote:
PaddyM wrote:
gorilla wrote:
Could be technique. Could be gear. Check how much forward lean you have in your boots and also the circumference of your calves.


So would you suggest too much or too little forward lean on ski boots could cause that?
If your boots push you forward (or the heel unit of your bindings is significantly higher than the toe unit) your body can subconsciously compensate by dropping your hips backwards in an effort find balance. This means your quad muscles are working harder than necessary.


So its looking like its more me than boots / gear as I was skiing in Salomon X Pros which I believe are fairly upright?
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
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PaddyM wrote:
So its looking like its more me than boots / gear as I was skiing in Salomon X Pros which I believe are fairly upright?
It my experience equipment setup is not the most common cause of thigh burn.
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Being fat lad shouldn't make a difference, I'm usually around 110kg (6' but shortish legs) and don't suffer. As others have said, probably an issue getting weight forward but by 'tilting' the pelvis* rather than just leaning forward. I find that pole planting is a good way to remind me to do this.

Check that your boots are done up decently around the shin, if they're too loose then your legs may be working harder than you need to.

*I appreciate that this is a difficult one, a lot of people had explained it to me but I never really understood until I was talking to someone the other week about how he should change his stance, then it all made sense.
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@PaddyM, in my case it was too much. But as I say, can be gear, can be technique. I have 17 inch calves. I have to pay attention to how much forward lean I have.
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SnoodlesMcFlude wrote:


*I appreciate that this is a difficult one, a lot of people had explained it to me but I never really understood until I was talking to someone the other week about how he should change his stance, then it all made sense.

If I understand you right, the effect of this, is to activate your core and round your back (opposite of a hollow back/lavatory position)
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
@Old Fartbag, it puts you more towards fornicate than defecate. As I said, I find it difficult to understand but it was in demonstrating it to my mate that I had the lightbulb moment.
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So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
SnoodlesMcFlude wrote:
@Old Fartbag, it puts you more towards fornicate than defecate. As I said, I find it difficult to understand but it was in demonstrating it to my mate that I had the lightbulb moment.

The thought of this demonstration to your mate, made me smile.
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You know it makes sense.
Timc wrote:
Voltarol Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Toofy Grin


Nah. Beer!
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
esaw1 wrote:
Timc wrote:
Voltarol Twisted Evil Twisted Evil Toofy Grin


Nah. Beer!

They're not mutually exclusive. Toofy Grin
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
All this talk about 'positions'. As a dynamic sport it seems to me that skiing is about movements, not holding the perfect position.
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rob@rar wrote:
As a dynamic sport it seems to me that skiing is about movements,


Other skis are available. Toofy Grin
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@geepee, Laughing
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rob@rar wrote:
All this talk about 'positions'. As a dynamic sport it seems to me that skiing is about movements, not holding the perfect position.

Is it? Are you sure?

I thought it was about having all the gear, so you look the part at lunchtime, on lifts.....and walking to and from your accommodation. As long as nobody actually sees you ski, you'll be grand. You can just point at tracks, on the steepest and most inaccessible peaks and claim them as yours. Simples. Madeye-Smiley
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@Old Fartbag, there was some thrust involved Laughing
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SnoodlesMcFlude wrote:
@Old Fartbag, there was some thrust involved Laughing

Was this before, or after the defecation. Madeye-Smiley
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Old Fartbag wrote:
.....and walking to and from your accommodation.
My place is ski in&out, what is this walking thing that you talk of?

wink
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
rob@rar wrote:
Old Fartbag wrote:
.....and walking to and from your accommodation.
My place is ski in&out, what is this walking thing that you talk of?

wink

Your screwed, then.....unless of course, you can actually ski.
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Old Fartbag wrote:
Your screwed, then.....unless of course, you can actually ski.
My right turns are OK. Left, not so good.
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rob@rar wrote:
Old Fartbag wrote:
Your screwed, then.....unless of course, you can actually ski.
My right turns are OK. Left, not so good.

Then you need to get an apartment further away from the slopes.
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