I'm just back from a long weekend courtesy of Intersport France in Val Thorens, and ended up being very interesting.
Basically ALL the off-piste was totally trashed by recent violent winds, so there was not even the remotest chance using some gear from their rental touring fleet!
The point to the weekend was by renting via Interpsort you can keep coming back in and changing your gear to your heart's content.
So as a few of you know I don't exactly ski the piste that much, but was looking forward to the chance of skiing some varied carving / advanced piste skis.
I was very close to being fitted with some alpine Atomic Hawx piste boots but my eyes were drawn to the ski touring version, the Atomic Hawk 120 Ultra XTD.
The boot has regular tech inserts for pin bindings but will also fit many alpine bindings with its Grip Walk system compatibility, a system I'd never come across before?
So over the course of the weekend (most of the lifts were closed on the Saturday due to high winds until mid-afternoon), I skied a number of skis.
My first outing on the Atomic Redsters was not too brilliant but that was more down to the conditions I think, then the Sunday we decided on 180 Head Core 93 which were more typical probably.
But it was the next skis that I had the best time on, and on the Monday, as the weekend hordes had left, I enjoyed my best ever day piste skiing in excellent conditions as it seemed Intersport had arranged me to have VT to myself for the first hour or so
@Weathercam, I'm not sure that the boots can be described as "touring" as I understand they're "just" the Hawx (piste boots) with tech inserts, a walk mode and the Gripwalk soles.
I'm not sure what you can describe them as, really, "hybrid" maybe?
But, I know, you need a "Sun" headline.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@under a new name, yes and I was dubious, however, I was swayed by some of the reviews I read, and they were on the previous season's models and there have been some mods for this season.
I have absolutely no complaints about the down, and as you know I will find out about the up very soon, weight-wise they are lighter than my S/LABs.
This is an extract from just one of the many reviews out there.
Our Verdict
Our lead test editor is a diehard "touring dork." He's used rando race style boots almost exclusively for 13 years and was reluctant to try "four buckle overlap" style boots. Boots constructed like this, such as the Atomic Hawx XTD 120, are generally much heavier with higher friction in the touring mode. The Hawx XTD mitigates a great deal of these issues, without compromising much of the downhill performance one wishes for. The most celebrated endorsement we can provide is that the lead editor used these boots for a high tempo, 8000 vertical foot day of Teton ski guiding. He'd never before used an overlap boot for this much human-powered skiing in one day. The middle of the ski touring and ski mountaineering boot buyer bell curve is evenly split in preferences. All want to optimize downhill performance and minimize uphill interference. Nonetheless, half are willing to lean one way, while the other half leans the other. The Atomic Hawx XTD is a boot that (if it fits), we can heartily recommend to those looking for absolute maximum ski support in a package that still tours all you would want.
I believe many alpine bindings are now adjustable to fit grip walk as well as traditional alpine boots. Was recently shopping for new boots and grip walk seems popular with mid-weight ‘hybrid’ boots with tech inserts and walk mode. I was after a one-boot quiver and opted for ones with tech inserts that have a ‘grippy’ vibram normal alpine so they are compatible with my shifts as well as my alpine skis without having to replace my bindings or own multiple boots.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@Weathercam, @Ozboy, I have an appointment at Concept next week to replace my full on slim last 130 race boots. Concept don't stock race boots...
It's going to be very interesting. I tried on some Dalbellos, just for effect, and they were absolutely as stiff as my old boots.
I rather fancy the Hawx XTD 130 based on reviews etc., but my feet are in the hands of the fitter... we'll see what he says!
The Atomic Ultra Hawx is in the 1400g range, which is lighter than many ‘Touring’ boots, but the weight range gets lower every year. The Tecnica Zero G Pro is in the 1300g range, and like the Ultra Hawx is as good as many piste boots on the down, but neither of course is a race boot.
Both are in the sweet spot of not causing harm going up or down, whereas most boots that are biased to either touring or downhill are.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I'm actually really happy with Hawk 130 XTD (with some work that they don't look Atomic, irrelevant for this thread why so), and while they are surprisingly good for downhill, there's still now way I would use them as on piste skis. My normal on piste ski is either Rossi WC Hero in ZC or ZE, and even on pow skis, when using lifts for going up, I'm always on these boots. So for me, there's no way touring boot can be piste boot, but it depends what you are normally using for piste boot. If you are using "normal recreational" boots, then I'm sure something like Hawk Ultra 130 XTD will do just fine. If you are used to race boots like I am, then there's simply no way it would work.
After all it is free
After all it is free
PowderAdict wrote:
The Atomic Ultra Hawx is in the 1400g range, which is lighter than many ‘Touring’ boots, but the weight range gets lower every year. The Tecnica Zero G Pro is in the 1300g range, and like the Ultra Hawx is as good as many piste boots on the down, but neither of course is a race boot.
Both are in the sweet spot of not causing harm going up or down, whereas most boots that are biased to either touring or downhill are.
I was just standing in them but I’m almost 90kg’s and those Tecnica Zero G’s are stiff! I also picked up the Hawx. Looked like a similar construction and weight but boot guy said they suit a narrow foot which is not mine. I believe Dalbello have Lupo Air in this weight class although this bootfitter said when they tested it, it was soft so they aren’t stocking it this year...
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@under a new name, do you need a full on race boot as I read above you seem not too bothered about piste sking? I got the Technica Cochise 130 which is a Freeride boot at a ‘heavy’ 1950 grams which are sopposed to offer best of both worlds Ie. Some recreational touring but good going down while being compatible with all mi bindings. Although rated at 130 I think they feel more like a traditional 110.
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Quote:
I rather fancy the Hawx XTD 130 based on reviews etc., but my feet are in the hands of the fitter... we'll see what he says!
Lange XT 140, assuming it fits. Probably the most "race boot" last out there of all the freeride boots. I have the 130, which is more like a 120.
Provided you don't come from a race background, you will struggle to notice the difference with high end recreational boots.
Heavy, though. Depends how far you really intend to walk in them.
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@gorilla, I agree for down. I used Rossi Alltrack Elite 130 LT, which is same as Lange XT, and it's really good for downhill, but for up is... well... not really touring boot, at least not for anything more then few minute hike
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
I ski on Technica Zero G scouts all the time. I don’t do a huge amount of piste skiing these days but when I do I attach them to my old Mantra’s via a pair of Marker Kingpins. They work absolutely fine and I wouldn’t consider ever buying a downhill boot again.
Why the Atomic though? They weigh half a kilo more and the Technica seems more popular with reviewers.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@zzz, only 100g heavier and 92mm last compared to 99mm for Tecnica. Looks like a better choice for The Cinderella’s out there!
@Ozboy, (et al.) It's really just what I'm used to. Been in race boots since 1984 (Nordica NR 970). I have slim ankles so not typically Technica (despite adoring the TNTs in the 90s) are not really for me - although a low volume last perhaps?
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@zzz, because I have girlie ankles... Prefer the Technica colours... I mean, it's all about the colours, right?
Concept have all of the boots mentioned (other than anything from Salomon): Atomic, Lange, Technica ...
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@under a new name, FWIW It was noted during my boot fit a couple of weeks ago that I have slim ankles which apparently is a feature of Technicas. I have zero heel lift. Am not suggesting you should get them but perhaps the zero g worth considering as seems popular.
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@Ozboy, the decision is not mine to make
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@under a new name, all my bikes are black and wheels de-stickered so the decision maker cannot tell them apart and does not notice new additions. If only the same could be said about ski gear.
My point is that more or less, I will be buying whatever my fitter tells me to buy ...
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
@under a new name, Just been googling bindings and it seems the Marker freeride range such as the Griffon have a height adjustable front binding plate that will fit traditional alpine, GripWalk and traditional touring soles (ISO 9523) - they cost <£150 and could be a good solution if you wanted new boots with touring soles but still use a your favourite alpine ski now and again.
@Ozboy, I have Squires so that's fine they adjust.
Not so fine when they are incorrectly in the higher "alpine" position and some-one has Franken-boots which have worn somewhat and there's 8mm of play... wondered why I couldn't get a good edge ... doh ...
A point really being that presuming I do buy from Concept, I think almost anything under consideration has tech inserts. And I can rent skis from them, to see if I really do as much touring as I want to.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
I was advised against going for the 130, can't recall why even though they are 1,630 vs 1,430 which they did have in stock.
Sacha Pourreau who owns the Intersport shop in Val Thorens, Le Cheval Blanc, went to tremendous lengths to ensure a good boot fit, as my feet do have a few issues, and he was keen to demonstrate his BootDoc boot fitting system, which is quite stunning tech, and I've been to a few boot doctors in the past and wrote this feature last season , what his system shows you is a complete measurement break down, after a very simple quick scan, of all the key points of your feet, such as height of arches, width circumference across three points, ankle-bone and heel plus a lot more detail, maybe in hindsight that's why he recommended for me the 120
I should maybe throw a caveat in here, that the boot doctor I went to last season is a qualified osteopath and chiropractor, so he does carry out a total muscular-skeletal analysis to determine other issues (leg discrepancy) which could determine the boot fit prognosis, but his prices reflect that.
With one leg 2.5cm shorter I've had numerous fittings (gait analysis/bike fits) over the years and subsequent insoles from running through to cycling.
One boot was put in the oven (note not the more usual liner) and padding stuck to the ankle bone, and then after relevant cooking time liner was placed in the boot with my foot etc and then after ten mins ice packs applied to the boot to freeze the shaping that had taken place.
Then after the ski session, I returned to explain that as I thought initially the boot shell would need more of an overnight concentrated molding to blow out the shell to accommodate my protruding ankle bone. Then on collecting the boots Sunday morning, I opted for the merino custom insoles as I did read a couple of reviews that feet can get cold in the Hawx, and they were indeed cold on Saturday but conditions were ballistic with a mega wind chill.
@Ozboy, I have a pair of Black Crows Atris mounted with the heavier Marker F12's, and like the other Marker frame bindings they have the front plate adjustable to accommodate both Alpine and Touring boots. I use these as a downhill off-piste ski with alpine boots with a slight walk mode that should needs must, getting back up to someone who may have lost a ski, or worse etc I can skin get back up to them rather than hike in deep snow, I've also skinned in them to simply avoid boot packing in deep snow, though timing wise there is usually not a lot in it, I'm not quite as fecked as those who boot packed
After all it is free
After all it is free
Weathercam wrote:
With one leg 2.5cm shorter I've had numerous fittings (gait analysis/bike fits) over the years
could be useful, depending which way you are going around the mountain.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@davidof, This is Berry good...
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
@davidof, This is Berry good...
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@davidof, that's quite amazing given the lack of humour like that in France, right up my street, of course in an anti-clockwise direction
Reminds me of Dr Youv Been Adover's thesis on kerb running, to strengthen legs.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
It's largely down to the shape of your foot - but I really like the zero G's (wide forefoot, slim heel and high arch). I did find them cold last season until I stuck some self adhesive foam strip to stop cold air flowing into the gap between the two horizontal shell sections from mid-toe to ankle. I seem to remember the same problem in some old bright orange Tecnica's where Gaffa tape was used to reduce drafts instead.
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
I think I'll probably use my Black Diamond Method boots with the alpine soles this winter. I hardly ever use them for touring. It will save me 400€ for new boots and give them some use.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
The stiffer Dalbello Lupos fulfill a similar role (nominal 130 flex and similar weight) but they are 3 buckle cabrios and offer the option to remove the tongue for bigger range of movement on longer skins
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@jedster, sadly absolutely not my foot shape - but defo stiff enough! impressed, I was.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
last few years ive skied one pair of hybrid / touring boots on three types of ski , the new free ride tour boots are so good that I never felt the need for a full alpine boot , apart from the real race chargers that need a super stiff boot to drive the skis I can't see the down side of a boot with walk mode and grip soles , also as @bobinch says its easier to get a good fit for wider feet . my latest pair are the fisher ranger free 120 , nice progressive flex for balanced skiing , good ROM and pretty light and can be worn all day straight out of the box
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
compared to 99mm for Tecnica. Looks like a better choice for The Cinderella’s out there!
