 Poster: A snowHead
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Just looking for some opinions on my recently ammended policy wording:
"Skiing/ski boarding/snowboarding in recognised areas including off-piste when accompanied by a guide or instructor (if off-piste within the ski area boundaries of a recognised ski resort that is patrolled then it is not a requirement to be accompanied by a guide or instructor) and at all times provided You are not skiing/ski boarding/snowboarding against local recommendations or where avalanche warnings have been given."
I'm snowboarding in Europe, generally alone, and only go off piste between pistes but does this has the ring of US wording?
I generally have a backup anyway, currently in AAC.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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In Europe, it means unless you're unconscious or paralysed, get yourself back on piste before you call ski patrol.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@BoardieK, it does sound like US wording. On that wording, you would not be covered between pistes in Europe without a guide, because no off-piste areas (except possibly some itineraries) in Europe are patrolled, between pistes or otherwise. I'd be inclined to ask for clarification from the insurers before going ahead with that.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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@BoardieK, I'd get confirmation from your insurance provider, in writing, about boarding off piste on your own in Europe.
"between pistes" is 100% off piste in Europe.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Some policies have more helpful wording e.g. Holidaysafe's definition
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Under the Holidaysafe Winter Sports range we cover skiing and snowboarding on and off piste in the ski resort as standard.
We define ski resort as an area that has prepared ski runs and groomed slopes and is serviced by lifts and tows which operate seasonally.
The policy provides cover for piste skiing, including skiing on areas in and around the resort that are off the actual marked and groomed pistes, such as skiing on a hillside between marked pistes, or skiing
in-between groomed trails and runs, where ski lifts and emergency services are easily accessible and ending back at a ski area lift.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@BoardieK,
Ask Michael Schumacher?
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As regards the " or where avalanche warnings have been given" bit, how should you interpret that against the Avalanche Risk 1 to 5 scale? Even scale values 1 and 2 have some (low) risk
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Exactly. I pointed out to Dogtag, when I was querying their policy, that there is always an avalanche warning, even if it's only 1. They said that in that case, off piste wouldn't be covered. I asked to speak to somebody who actually understood skiing in Europe but drew a complete blank and gave up. Their inability to do anything except talk Americanese about "inbounds" was most frustrating.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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I would interpret the important bit of that with emphasis on the phrasing of "if off-piste within the ski area boundaries of a recognised ski resort that is patrolled then it is not a requirement to be accompanied by a guide or instructor.. and at all times provided You are not skiing/ski boarding/snowboarding against local recommendations or where avalanche warnings have been given."
Between pistes to me seems to be well included within the definition of patrolled areas which are in turn within and delineated by the general area boundaries of a recognised ski resort. You are therefore OK to ski or board there on your own.
Look at a piste map which has lines showing the limits of patrolled areas. Outside of these it won't be pisted, runs won't be marked (much) and it won't be patrolled. Under your insurance you'd need a guide with you there.
I'd rely on that for me and Mr G, but if in doubt you should clarify with the insurers before taking out a policy, as others have suggested.
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In Europe all off piste, including between pistes, is un-patrolled and not made avalanche safe unless it threatens a piste. Many people have died just beside a piste. Companies which do not cover off-piste skiing without a guide would not cover you skiing there.
However a few companies (notably the Ski Club of GB unless they just changed) do cover off piste without a guide. Otherwise SCGB leaders couldn't ski off piste at all with members.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@BoardieK,
If you intend to go Off Piste yoi sound Stressed about yoir insurance cover already..
I would avoid them at all costs your just be paying them money and never get finacially protected
Find an insurance company that specialises in this , it is not cheap!..
Just do not mention you Ski "alone" or expect to paid out and found to be alone
Jusr saying....
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| snowball wrote: |
| In Europe all off piste, including between pistes, is un-patrolled .... |
Glad to see that Scotland has already left Europe 
Didn't know that (on the serious bit). Does it matter how far apart the runs are? In some places it's only a central reservation, as it were; in others one run isn't visible or easily reached from another. Is there a difference here? I can't believe that in practice the middle bits aren't patrolled, but I can't find a piste map to show me how it's marked (as opposed to Scottish maps, where it's very clear and is a fully boundaried area of fully patrolled).
And what about, for instance, Finland, where everyone's on and off the piste, up and down the banks at the edges and into the trees (to varying degrees) and back - especially when the snow's deeper on piste as well?
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
Some policies have more helpful wording e.g. Holidaysafe's definition
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Under the Holidaysafe Winter Sports range we cover skiing and snowboarding on and off piste in the ski resort as standard.
We define ski resort as an area that has prepared ski runs and groomed slopes and is serviced by lifts and tows which operate seasonally.
The policy provides cover for piste skiing, including skiing on areas in and around the resort that are off the actual marked and groomed pistes, such as skiing on a hillside between marked pistes, or skiing
in-between groomed trails and runs, where ski lifts and emergency services are easily accessible and ending back at a ski area lift.
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That seems tome to be a very sensible and helpful statement with regards to the type of off-piste that most of us punters engage in. Not like an insurance company to appear reasonable 
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You know it makes sense.
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@Grizzler, I can't point to any case law (though I do remember an extraordinary case where an insurance company tried to argue that someone who had fallen off a tow was technically off-piste and was therefore not covered for injuries sustained - I believe common sense prevailed on that one) but the convention is that off-piste is like pregnancy, you can't be a little bit off-piste.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Wow, thanks for all the replies which are generally as expected.
Probably 98% of my time is on piste and since it's a general travel policy which covers us for multiple 60 day trips in our motorhome as well as 45 days snowboarding at a decent price (£180 for us both and I'm 60 with a pre existing medical condition) I'll probably renew.
So the AAC covers the modest solo off piste?
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Poster: A snowHead
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I can remember skiing in one place (though I can't remember right now where it was) that has a piste each side of a central area about 150 metres across. A guide was telling me about seeing an avalanche heading down a long way onto the area and shouting (he was on a chair lift above it) at people on the almost flat area (one was squatting down to pee) to tell them to to get out of the way ,as some were only a few yards off piste. None moved or looked uphill and many were caught and a few died. The piste was specifically sited to be just out of the run-out from possible avalanches.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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We use MPi...off piste without a guide is included. Very reasonable too.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Perty wrote: |
| We use MPi...off piste without a guide is included. Very reasonable too. |
+1. Also very pragmatic about pre-existing conditions.
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