 Poster: A snowHead
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A question for the experts. My thoughts of investing in Intuition liners for my utterly comfy (and hitherto irreplaceable) boots, went rather off piste a couple of weeks ago as I made an online purchase of a pair of Dalbello Lupo AX110 Women's boots. Mr P has raved about his Lupos since he bought them, and the female version has just come out this season (Fall-line award winners too).
So...against all the advice I would give others on the forum, I ordered a pair online. At the time I wasn't aware of what Grip Walk meant in terms of soles and bindings. I.e that they are not compatible with ordinary alpine bindings.
Boots finally arrived today. By then I had realised (after a little post-purchase research) that the Grip Walk soles would not be compatible with my Alpine bindings.
Sods law meant the boots fitted perfectly. So light too. Fab.
I am not prepared to go out and replace all (2-3  ) bindings on my skis with Grip Walk-mainly because of cost, redrilling etc, but also because I have a hate hate relationship with Marker bindings.
I was within a whisker of ordering Alpine soles for the Lupos (appear to be exactly the same shape as Mr P's soles, same screw positions etc), but decided against it as I think the toe end has a little plastic insert above the sole, then there are the tech inserts on the heels as well, and there may be more curvature in the sole (though I didn't check-and I don't think so).
Was I right to steer clear?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Is your question "can I swap the soles for normal alpine soles"?
BTW I'm pretty sure (spyderjon will know for sure) that Salomon/Atomic's MNC bindings like the Warden are Gripwalk compatible, if you did want to go and change all bindings.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@clarky999,
Yup-in a nutshell, that is the question. All the Grip Walk brand info is silent on the issue. Annoying.
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@Perty, Do you have Tech/Dynafit bindings, or did you buy the boots thinking they were 'normal' alpine boots?
It appears the alternative Dalbello Lupo alpine soles aren't fully certified for alpine bindings, but would probably work fine.
So it appears you have 3 choices:
1. Replace the bindings on your skis
2. Replace the grip walk soles with the alpine version
3. Return the boots, and replace your liners or consider a different boot.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Bought them as "normal" alpine as Mr P has a pair of Lupos-or not so different that they rendered alpine bindings incompatible. I am not a ski tourer, or at least not yet. Didn't twig what "Grip walk" meant in terms of compatability-and it wasn't made clear with that particular retailer. Only when I saw them on another website was there a warning.
They've just been sent back..I had 14 days to return and as there was a mess up with delivery, I didn't want to end up not being able too return them and being £400 poorer. I'm going to check out the Dalbello Chakras instead.
Can't help thinking we are getting into "battle of the bindings" here, with Marker trying to corner the market-possibly succeeding. I'm not saying it isn't a good idea, but one could end up with buying Betamax when the market is tipping in favour of VHS. (Older SHs will know what I mean!!)
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@Perty, which make/model of bindings do you have?
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I admit there does seem to be a standards battle going on. Salomon have had their WTR (Walk To Ride) system out for a few years, which was supposed to offer more grip than the full plastic soles. It does however look like the Marker Grip Walk will offer more grip.
I generally ski using Dynafit bindings, but use the Marker Lord SP binding if I want to use alpine bindings with my touring boots.
Anyway, anyone who had one will know that Video 2000 was massively superior to either Betamax or VHS. 8 hours on one tape, recorded program skip, jump to specific time etc, years before DVD's 
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My view is that it's all a colossal feckup by the industry given they seem determined to rip people off by uneccesary upgrades and have deliberately chosen divergent "standards" to make things even worse. I'd get on to the retailer that supplied the boots and get them to provide a DIN compatible sole or else reject the boots as unfit for purpose unless they specifically drew your attention to the fact that they were not compatible with apline bindings. Let them collect at their own cost.
Ypu're going to be far from the last to be victim to this particualr scam and there will be plenty of people going on hol with their shiny new boots who will be gutted to find they don't work (or probably more importantly are not underwritten as safe to work) with their rentals skis.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| PowderAdict wrote: |
I admit there does seem to be a standards battle going on. Salomon have had their WTR (Walk To Ride) system out for a few years, which was supposed to offer more grip than the full plastic soles. It does however look like the Marker Grip Walk will offer more grip.
I generally ski using Dynafit bindings, but use the Marker Lord SP binding if I want to use alpine bindings with my touring boots.
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Indeed with grip-walk and Marker, Volkl, Blizzard, K2, Nordica, Dalbello, Tecnica on one side.
Walk-to-ride and Salomon, Atomic, Look, Lange, Rossignol on the other.
What a mess.
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Got this from Pug ski. My new boots have some sort of rubber screwy soles, don't think they are grip walk, but whatever Lange call it. but luckily my bindings are in the middle of this chart, I suspect they would fit any alpine binding anyway. Agree it's getting daft.
 Screen Shot 2017-10-13 at 11.14.16 AM by Bill Seddon, on Flickr
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@endoman, Finally a skiing related use for Venn Diagrams that isn't marketing 
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Hmmm, XC skiers and Telemarkers seem to get on fine with multiple binding/boot systems.
My boots had the bases ground and replacement vibram soles fitted... absolutely no certification there!
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Agreed that it's messy but these new soles are a great improvement over the old standard alpine soles and the GripWalk looks to be the better system as it has more rocker.
Better walking and lighter boots with no performance loss is a big move foward.
Don't think it'll be long before the old alpine style lugs will only be on race boots and everyone else will be on a profiled sole.
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You know it makes sense.
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@spyderjon, why would race boots retain the old style? Precision? Strength?
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| under a new name wrote: |
| @spyderjon, why would race boots retain the old style? Precision? Strength? |
You can't plane the WTR/GW soles to cant them.
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Poster: A snowHead
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I've been saying for a while that one of the binding manufacturers could easily win the VHS/Betamax war, they just need to get an agreement with some of the boot manufacturers to launch a 'pink dot' standard.
Any binding with a pink dot printed on it would work with any boot with a pink dot on the sole. Internet shoppers and ski hire shops would love it.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| Oceanic wrote: |
| under a new name wrote: |
| @spyderjon, why would race boots retain the old style? Precision? Strength? |
You can't plane the WTR/GW soles to cant them. |
Yep. Or screw a lifter to them to adjust delta angle. Non race boots also tend to have hollow lugs which can't be routed down
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| under a new name wrote: |
Hmmm, XC skiers and Telemarkers seem to get on fine with multiple binding/boot systems.
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I suspect the customers are slightly more kit aware than the average alpine billy when it comes to norms and compatibility. Tele was basically 75mm duckbills then NTN came along and the the logical move is when you're ready to invest in higher performing or new bindings you upgrade your boots. Alpine bindings don't tend to be a shoody as old tele bindings so to all intents and purposes most people will struggle to wear them out and an alpine binding doesn't "do" anything so there's very little performance advantage to be had from an upgrade (theories around "safer" bindings, better elasticity, better durability (=metal) aside).
I'm due a new pair of boots but at the moment would steer clear of anything WTR or Gripwalk because I don't want to put new bindings on all my skis (or indeed quiver kill them for one new binding). I could conceivably "bet" on a victorious system to future proof myself but I'm happy with cattracks or slinging a pair of trainers over the rack for any aorund town walking I need to do.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@spyderjon, Though this may be of academic interest only now for me, I have had a rummage in the understairs cupboard and here is a list of my skis and bindings. Slightly embarrassed by the number.
I am a lightweight 51yo female, who is a good skier, skis off piste to a modest standard but not done any touring yet-hence they are nothing flash! I have had Marker bindings in the past but found the Griffons really stiff and the Squires flimsy and hard to get to click in. Gave up on them.
Salomon STH12 on Liberty Envy Powder skis. The only binding of mine with no slidey bit under the toe end.
Salomon STH10 on Blizzard Latigos (to be retired-much loved but broken tail end)
Salomon Z12-new bindings to be fitted on Blizzard Brahmas-which are likely to be my day to day skis for this season.
I don't think any of these have the WTR capability in any event. I also have a pair of old skis for really for rocky piste conditions as experience the last couple of years in Dec. Again, a normal pair of basic Salomon bindings,
I am also thinking about investing in some proper piste skis.
I think I am beginning to understand the whole issue a bit more, but it seems to me the it can be a bit of a minefield if you only want one pair of ski boots!
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| endoman wrote: |
Got this from Pug ski. My new boots have some sort of rubber screwy soles, don't think they are grip walk, but whatever Lange call it. but luckily my bindings are in the middle of this chart, I suspect they would fit any alpine binding anyway. Agree it's getting daft.
Screen Shot 2017-10-13 at 11.14.16 AM by Bill Seddon, on Flickr |
@endoman
this is and old thread. for accuracy of the thread, PugSki updated their chart last November and those Marker ID bindings are now in the overlapped section
https://www.pugski.com/threads/the-new-sole-of-skiing-part-2.6477/
also, i've read that since the STH2-WTR toe-pieces have vertical adjustability, Grip-Walk boots can be used in those, even though they technically fall into the WTR only section.
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As I understood it, Gripwalk had won out (hurrah, hopefully less confusion now), and even Look were going to make their bindings officially Gripwalk compatible - which is good because I love Pivots, but they weren't (officially) Gripwalk compatible
I have Gripwalk soles on my boots (Nordica Strider 130) and I find them infinitely better than old flat DIN soles for practicality.
I also previously had Garmont boots that had touring soles but with an AFD so already used to the idea. Full on touring soles are quite squishy and would only go in my Marker Dukes properly (until Marker made the Sole-ID bindings), and even then was never quite sure about the release characteristics and fairly sure they didn't do much for performance.
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| under a new name wrote: |
Hmmm, XC skiers and Telemarkers seem to get on fine with multiple binding/boot systems.
My boots had the bases ground and replacement vibram soles fitted... absolutely no certification there! |
And I have the metal enhanced lumpy leg to prove that . . . or, perhaps not  There's never a guarantee that any binding is going to stop you hurting yourself and we're all different. I've repeatedly broken my right leg, yet my knees have never even been tweaked. Talk to spyderjon re bindings
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