 Poster: A snowHead
|
Our son is off with PGL on his first school ski trip (while we go on ours - happy days!!!). He isn't brilliant on t-bars and can sometimes get in a bit of a pickle at the start of the holiday. He got caught once and he ended up going around the wheel at the end but luckily managed to wriggle free and drop down onto deep snow and some other kind peeps rescued him. I believe a lad died in similar circumstances. As such, we haven't given him a rucksack as either hubby ends up carrying bits and bobs in one (across his chest on lifts) and we eat on the mountain anyway.
We went to the school ski meeting last night and they said the boys would need a rucksack as they will have packed lunches. My stomach flipped.
So my question is, how do others manage? Is one type better than another. Just general advice please. He's 14, and safety is a bit of a boring subject if you know what I mean - lectures, chats and screaming about such matters are an occupational hazard to be endured. Having said that I have faith that the teachers and instructors will really drill it into him, so I'm probably just being anxious!
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
@bambionskiis, I think the risk with rucksacks is greater on chairlifts that t-bars. T-bars normally have a trip wire after the exit area, so if someone is still in it, it pulls the wire out of the stop button. It can be embarrassing to get tangled in a t-bar but shouldn’t be serious.
The incident you referred to was a child that got his rucksack straps caught and was hanging from a chairlift. Trauma from hanging is serious.
My son wears a rucksack when we go offpiste. I’m concious to check he’s not tangled as we get off chairlifts, but it’s not always possible if he end up on the chair in front. After reading the incident about the boy dying, I hope it’s raised awareness from lift operators. And I thought myself if I see a child hanging my ski boots are coming off and I’ll climb up there if possible.
If you are worried, the safest thing is to tell him to take it off every time he gets on a chair and have it on his lap, and let it go if it gets tangled.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
If you wear a fairly slim fit rucksack with no straps or 'catchy bits' he would not generally be asked or need to take off the rucksack on a chair lift. That is what my wife has/does. I on the other hand have something slightly bulkier and I take mine off at every lift - which can be a bit of a bind. T-bars, cable cars and drag lifts shouldn't be an issue. A boy did die in a freak accident in 2011 but it's not clear if he was wearing the rucksack. Worth showing your son this story though and emphasising the importance of not messing about on chair lifts especially and always being ready to exit safely.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
if hes only going to take a roll and a choccy bar they will easily fit into a jacket pocket .. For drinks get him a drinks bottle that fits into a waistband at the back ..(like runners wear) ... gets rid of any angst and faff
or get his mate to carry his stuff 
Last edited by You need to Login to know who's really who. on Tue 27-11-18 11:03; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
I am sure that some backpacks are easier to get on and off than others, and there are the ones which slide around your body on a single strap.
The enforcement of the "Remove your back pack before attempting to get on the lift" by lift staff, as well as encouragement by teachers / instructors is key. Not only is it a safety issue, but if the lift staff have to keep stopping the lift to tell people, then this affects everybody who is both on the lift or in the queue.
Our lads eat most of their packed lunch before getting on the first lift of the day, and the rest gets stuffed into their pockets for later consumption.
When you're hungry, a crushed sandwich is as good as an uncrushed one, and they do not worry about laundering their ski clothes either, though the dog normally has a good investigation of their pockets when they get home.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
Buy a very small pack, 9 litres or so, and cut off any unnecessary straps or clips beyond what is required for him to wear the thing. No waist strap, no carry straps, etc.
I once had a strap get stuck on a chairlift when I was trying to dismount. Painful experience as I was dragged around the bullwheel on my chest as the chair went over the top of me, and then headbutted the stop bar 
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@bambionskiis, I don't mean this in an offensive way, but you are definitely being an over anxious ski mum. Your kid should be able to handle a backpack at 14 (I assume he wears one to school every day?), I know I could. You don't even need to panic him, just say put your backpack on your lap or you might get stuck on the chairlift in front of all your friends while they laugh at you. When I was 14 the thought of being embarrassed in front of my friends would have been much more of a reason to be careful with my backpack than my mum giving me a safety lecture.
Edit: To be clear I am not saying there is anything wrong with being worried about your children, but at 14 my perception of my mum was she worried far too much and I'd dismiss half of what she said as over-worrying. If she'd started cutting straps off my backpack to keep me safe I would have truly thought she had lost it
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| Quote: |
Buy a very small pack, 9 litres or so, and cut off any unnecessary straps or clips beyond what is required for him to wear the thing. No waist strap, no carry straps, etc.
|
This. Decathlon sell cheap ones which would be ideal. Then stop worrying. When my son was on a school trip he was riding in a chairlift, with big brother on the chair behind. One of his skis dropped off and he was so worried about being stuck up a mountain with only one ski that he decided to drop out of the chair to recover it. His brother almost had a heart attack. Even with such rampant stupidity he survived. And these days he is such a good skier that being at the top of a mountain with only one ski would be no bother - he came down to Val d'Isere from the top of the Tignes glacier with just one (don't ask....). Did say his legs got tired in the bumps so he had to keep changing the ski from one foot to the other.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
I would advise against cutting off the waist straps, I hate skiing with mine undone as you can just feel everything moving about on your back. Either take it off for chairlift rides or make sure that it is done up as that way it can't get caught. The risk arises if you are wearing the pack but have straps undone as then there are buckles that can get caught in gaps in the chair
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| Bennisboy wrote: |
@bambionskiis, I don't mean this in an offensive way, but you are definitely being an over anxious ski mum. Your kid should be able to handle a backpack at 14 (I assume he wears one to school every day?), I know I could. You don't even need to panic him, just say put your backpack on your lap or you might get stuck on the chairlift in front of all your friends while they laugh at you. When I was 14 the thought of being embarrassed in front of my friends would have been much more of a reason to be careful with my backpack than my mum giving me a safety lecture.
Edit: To be clear I am not saying there is anything wrong with being worried about your children, but at 14 my perception of my mum was she worried far too much and I'd dismiss half of what she said as over-worrying. If she'd started cutting straps off my backpack to keep me safe I would have truly thought she had lost it |
Lol I hear what you are saying bennisboy and you are totally right and definitely no offence taken. Had I not seen him dangling from a t-bar I would be the same, but it's just lived with me. He also got kicked out of ski school when he was younger and was nicknamed by them as "Kamikaze". He has matured a lot since then, such that we now are fine him skiing without us with his school, but he is the least risk-averse person i've ever met. I'll try the getting stuck and laughed at one though 
Last edited by And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports. on Tue 27-11-18 14:40; edited 1 time in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| rambotion wrote: |
| I would advise against cutting off the waist straps, I hate skiing with mine undone as you can just feel everything moving about on your back. Either take it off for chairlift rides or make sure that it is done up as that way it can't get caught. The risk arises if you are wearing the pack but have straps undone as then there are buckles that can get caught in gaps in the chair |
Good point.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
I misread the title and thought you were asking about a backpack to carry children IN 
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| pam w wrote: |
| Quote: |
Buy a very small pack, 9 litres or so, and cut off any unnecessary straps or clips beyond what is required for him to wear the thing. No waist strap, no carry straps, etc.
|
This. Decathlon sell cheap ones which would be ideal. Then stop worrying. When my son was on a school trip he was riding in a chairlift, with big brother on the chair behind. One of his skis dropped off and he was so worried about being stuck up a mountain with only one ski that he decided to drop out of the chair to recover it. His brother almost had a heart attack. Even with such rampant stupidity he survived. And these days he is such a good skier that being at the top of a mountain with only one ski would be no bother - he came down to Val d'Isere from the top of the Tignes glacier with just one (don't ask....). Did say his legs got tired in the bumps so he had to keep changing the ski from one foot to the other. |
That made me chuckle. My son carried on skiing despite being shouted at to stop but fancied continuing. Towards a sheer drop. Luckily at the last moment he chucked himself on his side and just ended up entangled in the orange netting. Nightmare. Will have a look at Decathlon. We'll be in France skiing while he's in Austria so I reckon I'll soon remember to forget worrying
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
That looks good. He's got a back protector so I'd have to try them together - not sure it would work.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
What do people think about bum bags, worn with the bag on the front?
I rarely use mine now, as my jacket has plenty pocket space. Used to find it very useful and much preferable to wearing a backpack, even a small slim backpack.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
| bambionskiis wrote: |
| Bennisboy wrote: |
@bambionskiis, I don't mean this in an offensive way, but you are definitely being an over anxious ski mum. Your kid should be able to handle a backpack at 14 (I assume he wears one to school every day?), I know I could. You don't even need to panic him, just say put your backpack on your lap or you might get stuck on the chairlift in front of all your friends while they laugh at you. When I was 14 the thought of being embarrassed in front of my friends would have been much more of a reason to be careful with my backpack than my mum giving me a safety lecture.
Edit: To be clear I am not saying there is anything wrong with being worried about your children, but at 14 my perception of my mum was she worried far too much and I'd dismiss half of what she said as over-worrying. If she'd started cutting straps off my backpack to keep me safe I would have truly thought she had lost it |
Lol I hear what you are saying bennisboy and you are totally right and definitely no offence taken. Had I not seen him dangling from a t-bar I would be the same, but it's just lived with me. He also got kicked out of ski school when he was younger and was nicknamed by them as "Kamikaze". He has matured a lot since then, such that we now are fine him skiing without us with his school, but he is the least risk-averse person i've ever met. I'll try the getting stuck and laughed at one though |
Haha I got nicknamed "Crazy Joe" in my first ski school, didn't get kicked out though. I would just tuck straight down mogul fields.... still do sometimes 
If he's a good skier I'm sure he'll be desperate to show his mates how cool he is by doing everything well, so hopefully no need to worry! I'm sure he'll love the holiday and have a nice safe time though
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
| bambionskiis wrote: |
| rambotion wrote: |
| I would advise against cutting off the waist straps, I hate skiing with mine undone as you can just feel everything moving about on your back. Either take it off for chairlift rides or make sure that it is done up as that way it can't get caught. The risk arises if you are wearing the pack but have straps undone as then there are buckles that can get caught in gaps in the chair |
Good point. |
I thought it was to carry his lunch in? If he's got a litre of water, skins, crampons, shovel, probe, additional mid layer, etc, then having a waist strap done up will stop the pack moving around. But if all he's carrying is a third of a cheese baguette, an orange and a small juice box then shoulder straps and possible the chest strap will be more than enough to keep the pack in place.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| PeakyB wrote: |
What do people think about bum bags, worn with the bag on the front?
I rarely use mine now, as my jacket has plenty pocket space. Used to find it very useful and much preferable to wearing a backpack, even a small slim backpack. |
Depends on if you are doing it ironically...
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| PeakyB wrote: |
What do people think about bum bags, worn with the bag on the front?
I rarely use mine now, as my jacket has plenty pocket space. Used to find it very useful and much preferable to wearing a backpack, even a small slim backpack. |
that's what I use, but I'm no style icon. carry my phone (broke a rib once when it was in my pocket), glasses, ski lock, tissues, sometimes a bottle of water
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@Bennisboy, no honestly. A classy Salomon in racing red. Gets many admiring glances and sure to be back on trend any decade now.
The practical advantage is you can access stuff quickly. No need to take it off, as with a backpack.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| Quote: |
Depends on if you are doing it ironically...
|
You must be young to be so self-conscious about what you carry your sarnies in, @Bennisboy.  Worrying about stray straps on chairlifts is not altogether daft. My nephew got caught up by salopette straps (it was a warm day, no jacket). He dangled by his straps whilst the liftie had a laugh then slowly sorted him out. No danger of strangling but he had a savage wedgie....
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Bennisboy wrote: |
| If she'd started cutting straps off my backpack to keep me safe I would have truly thought she had lost it |
Funny; I thought that was the best suggestion! It's very important to get all loose straps out the way. Obviously this could be achieved by tying them or by cutting them or both, but one way or the other the straps have got to go.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
|
A bum bag is going to get a hell of a lot of p!ss taking from the other kids. But apart from that it's a great idea.
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| bambionskiis wrote: |
That looks good. He's got a back protector so I'd have to try them together - not sure it would work. |
My son’s backpack is really a running hydration one, an Osprey Viper 10. He is only 10 years old, so adult packs would be too long for his back. If he’s wearing it, I don’t have him wearing his back protector. But I think wearing both would be fine.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
| Quote: |
Luckily it was a pop-off head so no physical harm done
|
FIFY
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
|
If you get the minimal sized Decathlon one that is under £3 there is enough room for lunch and a drink but little else and will barely be a problem.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
| WindOfChange wrote: |
there are the ones which slide around your body on a single strap.
|
This.
If I need to take a backpack while in-resort (rare) I have a single strap one with a quick release clip that undoes in flash. It also has a strap for stability when riding
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
| bambionskiis wrote: |
Our son is off with PGL on his first school ski trip (while we go on ours - happy days!!!). He isn't brilliant on t-bars and can sometimes get in a bit of a pickle at the start of the holiday. He got caught once and he ended up going around the wheel at the end but luckily managed to wriggle free and drop down onto deep snow and some other kind peeps rescued him. I believe a lad died in similar circumstances. As such, we haven't given him a rucksack as either hubby ends up carrying bits and bobs in one (across his chest on lifts) and we eat on the mountain anyway.
We went to the school ski meeting last night and they said the boys would need a rucksack as they will have packed lunches. My stomach flipped.
So my question is, how do others manage? Is one type better than another. Just general advice please. He's 14, and safety is a bit of a boring subject if you know what I mean - lectures, chats and screaming about such matters are an occupational hazard to be endured. Having said that I have faith that the teachers and instructors will really drill it into him, so I'm probably just being anxious! |
I know the UK is a bit freaked out by the subject but if talking of a mature person, carrying a very small easily accessible knife in a proper sheath (mine is worn around my neck like a necklace, in a kydex sheath) to cut yourself free from any entanglement is something I consider to be essential mountain kit with anything involving ropes/straps or the potential to get snagged by any means. There are closed blade options available too but obviously arent as versatile or quick to use. I appreciate he's in school so carrying a knife may be viewed negatively, but a mountain is a mountain and doesnt care if someone is a school boy or not (or whats going on in wider society). Perhaps a small seat belt cutter would suffice if kept somewhere very accessible?
I saved myself from drowning with a neck knife in 2004 (not ski related).
I dont think you're being over cautious particularly. I'd raise it with the school and see what they suggest. Now you've thought of it, whilst nothing will happen 99/100, if anything minor did, you'd be upset.
Alternatively, have you looked into something like endurance running belts which can be worn under clothes? They can be surprisingly roomy. I have a Salomon version which can hold a 500ml flask, phone, keys, probably sandwiches (they get squashed anyway) and energy bars etc. There are bigger ones and its not going to be looked at as a bum bag by the other kids.
Edit: The school should have done a proper risk assessment so this should be raised in a similar vein imo. If someone has died through getting snagged by a backpack, its a completely viable topic. That may get you some traction to get the conversation going without you sounding like a worrier, if you see what I mean. No teacher/supervisor wants any incident whatsoever, no matter how minor, on their record. They may even thank you for bringing it up.
Last edited by Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person on Tue 27-11-18 21:26; edited 2 times in total
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
3 suggestions. But do whatever you (and son) are comfortable with.
1. Use a small rucksack that is easy to slip off and wear back to front on lifts (so that the sack is worn on the chest) less likely to get entangled but not 100% foolproof/ childproof)
2. Use a bumbag. My preferred option. Can hold quite a lot. Much less likely to get caught in a chairlift. Wear either way round
3. Just take the rucksack off and carry on chair lifts.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
@bambionskiis, are you sure they will be carrying their rucksacks round all day? When I learned to ski, on a UCPA holiday, we all had bags with lunch, camera, spare layer etc which got dumped by a pisteur hut before the first run for the day. This was 20 years ago, so may not occur any more, but if something similar is done, the risk of getting trapped on a chairlift goes down enormously.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
Backpacks unbalance you and harm your skiing skills.
Ditch the backpack.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
| Whitegold wrote: |
Backpacks unbalance you and harm your skiing skills.
Ditch the backpack. |
Tell that to literally every off piste skier who carries safety equipment or wears an avalanche pack. Or maybe you just aren't good enough?
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Bring back the "Bum Bag"
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Take a very small rucksack, like the Decathlon ones mentioned above. Jnr used one of these on his school ski trip when he was a similar age. Yes there’s a risk involved, but it’s minute, and as one of the more experienced skiers in the group he’ll manage better than most (usually anyone who has skied on a mountain on a school ski trip is more experienced than the majority).
Depending on the trip they might be able to leave lunch on the bus some days anyway.
Do not under any circumstances allow your son to take any kind of knife as @Martin & Ami has suggested. He’ll get sent home from the trip and quite possibly face permanent exclusion from school, regardless of any argument of it being used for emergency situations.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| hammerite wrote: |
Take a very small rucksack, like the Decathlon ones mentioned above. Jnr used one of these on his school ski trip when he was a similar age. Yes there’s a risk involved, but it’s minute, and as one of the more experienced skiers in the group he’ll manage better than most (usually anyone who has skied on a mountain on a school ski trip is more experienced than the majority).
Depending on the trip they might be able to leave lunch on the bus some days anyway.
Do not under any circumstances allow your son to take any kind of knife as @Martin & Ami has suggested. He’ll get sent home from the trip and quite possibly face permanent exclusion from school, regardless of any argument of it being used for emergency situations. |
I did mean with permission of the school rather than just turning up with a cutting tool, but what a sad state of affairs if thats true in all cases. A tad ironic too, considering they are trusting kids in a hazardous activity which involves 5ft long blades attached to your feet and two pointy metal sticks.
Does anyone have a link to the Decathlon pack being discussed? I've had a Quechua (Decathlon) Bionnassay 22 for years and its my daily use pack, but I've found if I put something bulky in it like layers and an outer, it deforms to a tube shape and ends up rolling around on my back as theres no stiffening on the back contact panel even with the waist and chest strap it feels odd. Not ideal for skiing or hiking, although I've used it for both.
Depending on what he's being asked to carry, might also want to consider a small dry bag to go inside too. Useful for wallet/phone/avoiding soggy sarnies.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| Layne wrote: |
| A bum bag is going to get a hell of a lot of p!ss taking from the other kids. But apart from that it's a great idea. |
Mini Hang11 who works in the cool AF snowboarding shop in town says they are the latest must have for the steezy look - they sell loads, and they are ridiculously expensive.
I always knew it was worth hanging on to mine
https://thebumbag.com.au/
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
. However reassuring to know about the t-bar mechanism. The lift in question was in Norway but I'm sure there's a standard so assume that's what "removed him" although he really was riggling as he went round (I still have nightmares!!). I'm going to encourage him to take it off I think or as you say limegreen, try to stuff things into his pockets. I think I'll contact PGL windofchange to ask what the policy is on reminding kids. Sorry to hear of your experience rob@rar think I'd need brown salopettes after that 
