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Best airbag for lift/hike served off piste?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Want to upgrade my original Snowpulse model with something lighter and better fitting. There are so many out there! Stick with Mammut 30l or should I look at something else? Priorities are good fit, low profile for chairlifts, easy to attach skis, durable enough to last a few years - the current one provided 10 years of service without ever being triggered!
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Had my BCA Float 22 for 5 years now, no wear, very flat profile, ski attachment OK, compressed air refill at any paintball place........
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Philwig posted an intriguing review on the Mammut Ultralight here http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=3165014&highlight=#3165014
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I have got the Mammut PAS system and have a 15L and 30L bags do depending on what I am doing/space I need I can change between them. 40L is the lightweight version so weighs about 3kg with cylinder etc and the -5L bag is similar. Also applies to their RAS system
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
I'm a big fan of the new Ortovox AVABAG 22, they are very light and compact with reasonable storage.
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The Mammut RAS 3.0 with carbon canister is extremely light I'm using it with a Jones pack and it takes up very little room.
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Thanks for the link and experiences. Hmmm the ultralight looks great although is it durable??? Perhaps the light or ride models are more suitable for heavy duty use
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
I think "what's best" is a personal issue.

I think the Ultralight is a major step forward in terms of weight and convenience, which was why I bought it.
You can get the same airbag internals (which weighs 1010g) in heavier packs if you want more durability or space.
I rode every day for three weeks just now in steep & deep and my bag's like new. I didn't attempt to carry my board on the bag.
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@philwig, thanks for the beta. Very tempted. With the option to get an additional bag at a later date it seems a pretty low risk path
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Is there anywhere that stock airbags so I can try for weight & feel?
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 snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
tangowaggon wrote:
Is there anywhere that stock airbags so I can try for weight & feel?

@tangowaggon, It's hard enough getting to try various makes/models of helmets as sales levels don't justify a shop carrying a wide range but it's far far harder to try different avi packs as their sales are so low & the margins are so tight that no one stock a 'range' of manufacturers/models. At best you might find a shop that has a couple.

The different systems all work fine so I'd only be considering the system type if you are lucky enough to find more than one pack that fits well.

One thing to watch out is that there's no consistent measure of pack volume from maker to maker - some give the volume of a total empty pack (ie avi system not installed), some give the pack volume including the air bag/valve mechanism but no cylinder & some give you the volume left for use with the system/cylinder installed. Plus, to make it even more confusing, it's very hard to ascertain which method of measurement each maker uses. Some, like ABS, don't even quote the dimensions of their packs!
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
tangowaggon wrote:
Is there anywhere that stock airbags so I can try for weight & feel?


If you find yourself in Savoie or Haute Savoie the Aux Vieux Campeur shops in Sallanches and Albertville carry a good range, I know they have branches elsewhere but those are the two I know. Likewise Snell Sports in Chamonix.

If you mean in the UK I doubt it very much.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
@tangowaggon, I think I have mentioned this before but probably Ski Bartlett in Hillingdon has one of the larger selections in one physical store. Several makes when I was there last season and website suggests they have Black Diamond, Ortovox, Scott and Mammut models-some of those there is more than one of each to try

@BobinCH, I have the ultralight 30L pack and that has no damage after 2-3 weeks use and travelling back and forward to resort including going through trees etc! I also got the 15L one as mentioned which is the non lightweight one (but is not v heavy) for times when damage might be more relevant/I don't need the larger one
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Went for the Ultralight 20l (@DrNo, assume you mean the “Light” 30l or Ultralight 20l?) and will add the Ride 30l, Light 30l, or whatever supercedes it next year if I knacker it or the ski attachment is truly useless. Seems low risk given the bag itself costs less than 100chf and the airbag system is transferable!

Thanks to @philwig, for the beta!
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
@BobinCH, yes, sorry I have the light protection 30L and the rocker protection 15L which isn't particularly lightweight but weighs the same as the light 30L one.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Paid 529chf for the bag + airbag system at Camp37.ch and 119chf for the carbon canister at campz.ch
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@tangowaggon, Custom Noble is on your side of the hill, Sam is really helpful.

I think they only stock ortovox (they do trade supply) so have a few in. They may (not sure) do other brands too.

If you want a good deal on a Freerider Avabag 22 all in I know where but can't share (well not in public anyway wink )

The Ortovox 22l has to be the lightest on the market and has 22l of usable space, as Jon says, the sizings are a bit all over the place
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@BobinCH, you will almost feel like the bag is dragging you uphill if you're moving from a classic snowpulse - enjoy! Ski carry is not great but you may work out a better system than i have so far
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@tangowaggon,
Quote:

Is there anywhere that stock airbags so I can try for weight & feel?

Either GNAR or OPB - I sat in a bar, with a bombardino or two, trying on everyone else's loaded packs to see what fitted me best. Unfortunately unemployment hampered the purchase.... Evil or Very Mad
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
It was GNAR and you liked mine the best Very Happy
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@KenX, Laughing
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 Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
PaulC1984 wrote:

The Ortovox 22l has to be the lightest on the market and has 22l of usable space


The mammut ultralight 3.0 20L pack is nearly a kilo lighter
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
@Themasterpiece, WOW so it is - thats impressive:

Ortovox 22L Ascent: 1640g
Ortovox 22L Freeride: 2130g

Mummut Ultralight 20L: 1510g

BUT the Mummut only has 18l usable space with Airbag in, whereas the Ortovox's have 22L, so theyre not that comparable Happy

Got my Shiny new Ortovox Freerider 22 today, will post some photos at some point showing what you can get in.
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 You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
Just been playing with the new 18/19 Scott Alpride electric pack which will be laumched shortly at ISPO. It runs off capacitors as opposed to lithium batteries. The 30ltr is only 2670g which is waaaay lighter than the Arc' and the pack design/quality is also up to Scotts usual excellent standard. RRP is £800.

Their Alpride twin gas cylinder models will still continue as well.
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 Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
spyderjon wrote:
Just been playing with the new 18/19 Scott Alpride electric pack which will be laumched shortly at ISPO. It runs off capacitors as opposed to lithium batteries. The 30ltr is only 2670g which is waaaay lighter than the Arc' and the pack design/quality is also up to Scotts usual excellent standard. RRP is £800.

Their Alpride twin gas cylinder models will still continue as well.



Ooooooh, that's interesting...

Are there any details anywhere yet?
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
@PaulC1984, the mammut weight includes cartridge; the Ortovox does not [/weightweenie]
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
spyderjon wrote:
Just been playing with the new 18/19 Scott Alpride electric pack which will be laumched shortly at ISPO. It runs off capacitors as opposed to lithium batteries. The 30ltr is only 2670g which is waaaay lighter than the Arc' and the pack design/quality is also up to Scotts usual excellent standard. RRP is £800.

Their Alpride twin gas cylinder models will still continue as well.

While any weight saving on fan backs is welcome, I was hoping it was going to be lighter, but I guess it’s only the majority of the battery weight that is being removed, so the fan unit and robust pack remain.

I understand that the technology will be licensed, so as with the RAS packs, there will much greater choice of pack design.
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
PowderAdict wrote:
spyderjon wrote:
Just been playing with the new 18/19 Scott Alpride electric pack which will be laumched shortly at ISPO. It runs off capacitors as opposed to lithium batteries. The 30ltr is only 2670g which is waaaay lighter than the Arc' and the pack design/quality is also up to Scotts usual excellent standard. RRP is £800.

Their Alpride twin gas cylinder models will still continue as well.

While any weight saving on fan backs is welcome, I was hoping it was going to be lighter, but I guess it’s only the majority of the battery weight that is being removed, so the fan unit and robust pack remain.

I understand that the technology will be licensed, so as with the RAS packs, there will much greater choice of pack design.

This is a pretty major weight saving compared to the existing battery airbags - 720g lighter than the Arc' pack. But yes, the actual plumbing, the airbag, release system/trigger & the actual pack are going to be very similar in weight which ever system is used.

The current Alpride 2.0 twin cylinder complete system weighs 1130g and its 30ltr pack weighs 1560g = 2690g total.

The new Alpride E1 complete system weighs 1280g and its 30ltr pack weighs 1390g = 2670g total so the system is actual a tad heavier than their cylinder system but they've taken some weigh out of the pack. The big gain is the lack of temperature sensitive/heavy batteries and the capacitors will hold the charge for 90 days and there's no travel/shipping restrictions. Plus, like the battery systems you can do practive pulls etc without issue. The capacitors hold enough charge for two pulls and can be recharged in 40 mins with 2no. AA batteries (which can be left in the system or removed). The AA batteries also have enough power to blow the bag. The system also comes with a micro USB cable to charge the capacitors.

And the E1 system, like the current Alpride 2.0 system, has an ambidexterous pull which is (which I don't think any other pack has) which is great for lefties like me.

Scott have an exclusive deal with Alpride on the E1 system for the 18/19 season after which other pack manufacturers can join the party.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
spyderjon wrote:

The big gain is the lack of temperature sensitive/heavy batteries and the capacitors will hold the charge for 90 days and there's no travel/shipping restrictions. Plus, like the battery systems you can do practive pulls etc without issue. The capacitors hold enough charge for two pulls and can be recharged in 40 mins with 2no. AA batteries (which can be left in the system or removed). The AA batteries also have enough power to blow the bag. The system also comes with a micro USB cable to charge the capacitors.


Sounds like a robust design.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Quote:

The big gain is the lack of temperature sensitive/heavy batteries and the capacitors will hold the charge for 90 days and there's no travel/shipping restrictions. Plus, like the battery systems you can do practive pulls etc without issue. The capacitors hold enough charge for two pulls and can be recharged in 40 mins with 2no. AA batteries (which can be left in the system or removed). The AA batteries also have enough power to blow the bag. The system also comes with a micro USB cable to charge the capacitors.


Hum, I was intrigued because this description seemed to be bending the laws of physics. On checking via random Google searches it is not accurate and the laws of physics still apply, phew. The capacitors don't hold charge for 90 days, the AA batteries can keep them topped up for 90 days, and then only if using lithium AA's; a subtle but important difference. There is no mention of the AA batteries being able to power the fan to inflate the bag, which makes sense as the power required to do that is way beyond what AA batteries can provide. Hence it taking 40 minutes to charge the capacitors using AA batteries. They also say only to use alkaline or lithium AA cells. So no zinc carbon (but quite where you buy those these days is another matter), and no rechargeable NiCd or NiMH.

Finally you only get one inflation per charge of the capacitors. Which is good because anything else would suggest a breakthrough in supercapacitors. However this means that there is no top up pulses like you get from a Jetforce bag, and while the bag deflates there is no powered deflate either.

https://www.wildsnow.com/23872/alpride-e1-avalanche-airbag-backpack-rucksack/

On the plus sides apart from lower weight, I think being able to charge using a standard microUSB is a major plus point over my Pieps Jetforce which requires a special charger all for itself. Extra brownie points for the first manufacture switching to USB C Smile
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I have the Ortovox Ascent 22 and have used it for approx 45 days now. It's very light, very comfortable and is built to last. The handle is positioned on your shoulder (it is adjustable) so it projects forward when exposed from the zipper pocket that protects it. It is very easy to find in a hurry, although I haven't deployed it.

It has no electrical components, which mattered to me.

Although very light, when fully loaded up with shovel, probe, fleece, gillet, low light goggles and sarnies, there is less difference with other packs than you would imagine. Empty, it feels like it weighs nothing.

The Marmut is very light. I really can't understand how they have taken away so much weight, if it is as durable. With cartridge, it's around 500g lighter than the Ortovox with its carbon canister. That is a huge amount missing.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
@spyderjon, had a gander at a pre-production version in Jan. Inflates in the same time as the gas fired ones, very neat. On next year’s Xmas list already Wink
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Update on the Ultralight 3.0. Absolutely love the bag! It only has one opening but you learn to pack it leaving the stuff you need near the zip. You can swing it on your hip to get stuff out without needing to take off the waist strap. It’s extremely light and comfortable. Can easily fit the usual avi stuff plus puffer, water bottle, skins, food etc. However, it is fragile, particularly carrying skis. The back fabric is quite marked and has started to tear. Will patch it with duck tape which should do the trick but may try the “Light” version when it’s completely knackered. The new bag would be about 100chf so seems worth trying.

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@BobinCH, Ouch. How many day's use has it had?

My Ortovox is unmarked, but making them this light did initially worry me. The weight has to be taken out of somewhere.

Arno wrote:
@PaulC1984, the mammut weight includes cartridge; the Ortovox does not [/weightweenie]


If that's true, it would worry me greatly. Mine is built up as follows:

Airbag 650g (includes handle, trigger etc)
Rucksack 990g
Carbon cartridge 310g

What do you take 440g out of?
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
bar shaker wrote:
@BobinCH, Ouch. How many day's use has it had?


Probably 30 odd days with 15 of those bootpacking. It’s the bootpacking with skis/bindings on the lightweight fabric that does the damage. Otherwise it’d be fine. So if you are regularly bootpacking either put a layer in between or get the “Light” version. If you’re not bootpacking this pack is perfect!
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