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Brushing skis after waxing- How important?

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I've just edged and waxed mine and my wife skis for the first time. They've been hot scrapped a few times and then waxed and cold scraped so the bases should now be nicely loaded with wax. What i didn't buy when i bought the wax,scraper and edge tool of spyderjon was a base brush.

How important is brushing the base after waxing? Can i use an alternative (eg a green nylon washing up 'scourer') or can i get away with just getting out and using the skis and letting the snow open up the structure for me?

Thanks in advance.
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Unless you're racing and striving for that extra 1 or 2 mph, brushing isn't important. You could easily use a nylon washing up pad (wet it through first) or a stiff shoe brush.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Being an idle soul, and disliking the mess made on my terrace by scraping wax, I let the snow do the whole job. Works fine, unless it's exceptionally cold and powdery. snowHead
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Sideshow_Bob wrote:
Unless you're racing and striving for that extra 1 or 2 mph, brushing isn't important. You could easily use a nylon washing up pad (wet it through first) or a stiff shoe brush.


Until I purchased a proper brass brush from Spyderjon I used a suede brush to put some 'structure' into the bases after waxing. Bought 4 of them from Wilkos (50p each or something) and chopped the heads off and screwed them to a bit of ply wood. Then finished the bases off with a clean shoe polish brush.........Robert is indeed the brother of your Mum/Dad wink
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pam w, I am an idle soul like you and I find a few runs on dendix does the job beautifully. Haven't tackled the snow skis yet though. Very Happy
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ickabodblue, Shocked A few runs on dendix will put a bit of structure into the bases, not just the wax...

Anyway, I brush my normal skis quickly with a nylon brush. It seems to make a small difference and just gets rid of the bits that my (now blunt) scraper doesn't quite get. For my GS skis I use the brass and nylon brushes - they go like the proverbial off a shovel from the get go, a real difference from scraper alone (I feel). Have also experimented by using steel brush as well, with a small, positive, effect.
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skisimon, That's why I have skis and wax for snow and skis and wax for dendix. wink Haven't ever waxed my snow skis myself but I'm gonna give it a try this year!!!
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
I find the nylon kitchen scrubbing brushes with a handle are great for bases... cheap in Asda etc or pound shops.
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But really, compared to just skiing a few runs, what is the benefit of all that brushing? Am I a heretic?
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pam w, It's so you can terrify yourself by gaining too much speed in the first 10 seconds of your ski trip Laughing
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The risk with not brushing is that you end up with a ski that sticks to the snow as there is nowhere for the melted water to go (you do realise that we ski on water, not snow?). If you are on your edges 100%, then this will affect you little, but that few % when you are flat running then you'll notice the difference.

IMO it takes only 20 seconds per ski to rub down with a brass brush, so why skip it when it will slow you down so much?
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Scarpa, no it's not. It's so you can have a fitter upper body and laugh louder at stuck snowboarders.
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pam w wrote:
But really, compared to just skiing a few runs, what is the benefit of all that brushing? Am I a heretic?


Not even close to being heretic. You are merely advocating less foreplay. I think you should find a lot of support for that idea.
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Nylon brush it is then.

Hope my wife doesn't complain when the next time she washes up the dishes come out with a thin layer of purple ski wax Smile

Thanks all.
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
ickabodblue wrote:
skisimon, That's why I have skis and wax for snow and skis and wax for dendix.

Very wise! If your recreational skiing or training on Dendix, there's no need to even scrape the wax after you've applied it - like you said, a few runs will sort it out, although you may find it a little slow to begin with, speeding up with each run. If you're racing, scrape and brass brush your bases as you don't have the benefit of 'a few runs' to sort things out!

For snow, I would definitely advocate brushing - as RobW said, this prevents the 'suction' created between the base and the thin film of water that is present between the snow and the ski.

Am I too anal?

comprex Laughing
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Jon.L wrote:
Am I too anal?
In one word?

No.

But then I do things like starching my shirts... Embarassed
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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pam w, I'm with you when I used bog standard Toko universal wax. But if the poor guy bought Dominator Zoom off Spyderjon then snow just won't shift it. The payback is a wax job that lasts a lot longer.
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when I first started servicing my own (and the Axsettes') skis I tuned the edges with a file and diamond stone, then dutifully hot waxed, scraped, base prep waxed, scraped, cold waxed, scraped again, final cold waxed, final scraped and then brushed until they shone. for four pairs of skis and two snowboards this took some time.

Last year I let things slide (groan) to the point where it was a quick run up and down with the stone, followed by a hotwax scrape, and a final wax, no scrape. nobody noticed any difference on the slopes.

Guess what I'm doing this year Madeye-Smiley
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nessy, Snow DOES shift dominator zoom, it just takes a few more runs. Toofy Grin
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 Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
I did buy Dominator zoom. I have scraped, just not brushed. I'm sure i could find a brass suede brush if it will make the difference between the skis working well from the off or needing a good few runs before they work properly.

nessy wrote:
pam w, I'm with you when I used bog standard Toko universal wax. But if the poor guy bought Dominator Zoom off Spyderjon then snow just won't shift it. The payback is a wax job that lasts a lot longer.
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lower, Here's a suggestion. give ONE ski a good brushing, leave the other just scraped. Then mix them up and see if you can tell which is which on the first run. If so it's worth brushing, if not ..... wink



P.S. As an alternative, do this to the wife's skis (don't of course tell her) and watch carefully to see if she skis in circles. Twisted Evil
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Axsman, Laughing Sounds like this is an experiment you have tried. I think you were spot on not telling her, it is an important control variable for this particular exercise, otherwise she would subconciously be adjusting her skiing for the potential impact.
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After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
Axsman, I can tell immediately the ski is on snow. Don't even need the first run. No joke.


TBH, I'm starting to think no one here brushes enough.

I just got a pair of skis ready for Jackson. Hardish wax comparable to Swix CH7.

Cleanout stage: 10 passes brass brush. 50 passes horsehair brush. Put ski outdoors to cool. 50 passes horsehair.
Polish stage: 50 passes fine nylon brush.

I would use the roto but I actually enjoy the workout.


Besides, machine foreplay is a bit ick.
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comprex, Ok and after the first run?

I guess it's not quite such an issue if one's skiing level is, shall I say 'less demanding' Embarassed Toofy Grin
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Axsman, don't be so hard on yourself. Your skiing level is very demanding - to watch at any rate... Shocked wink Little Angel
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Axsman, the last time I did the experiment, on the fourth day the brushed ski had fewer grey spots and was noticeably faster in squeaky snow (i.e. loose snow colder than -6C)
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The first time I serviced my own skis, I brushed them after waxing them with a brass brush and then a nylon brush and they were great on snow, they did feel really good. I had a conversation about this with a mate of mine as he had just been using a nylon brush after waxing and not the brass one before the nylon one so I tried that to see what the main difference was and if I really needed to bother. It was much harder work to get the wax out with just the nylon brush so it took longer anyway with just the one. The brass brushes are harsher so they fetch the wax out quicker than the nylon ones do (AFAIK)

Also, last trip I went on I thought I'd just wax them, scrape it off and not bother brushing them at all, it was late and I couldn't be ar$ed and I thought I'd let the snow wear the wax off this time. The skis definitely were running a lot slower for the first few days at least-it was the flat bits, the schusses and the traverses off piste when they were running slow(er). I mean, I don't need mine for racing and all that but sometimes it was really noticeable that they were sticking to the snow due to (more) suction because the structure hadn't been revealed from the off.

As others have said-the brushing only takes like, what, 30 seconds for each ski so it's hardly adding a lot of time. The brushes once bought should last yonks and yonks.

Next time I go away I'll definitely go back to the original way of doing the lot.

(I mention just the waxing bit above-of course I've done the rest, edges etc before doing that)
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I got a funny look on my first morning in Courmayeur with Interski when I darted into the workshop and pulled out a scraper and three different brushes from my boot bag to finish off my skis on the first day. Still, I suppose they had a point, I didn't need to ski like the proverbial off a shovel when working with beginners. Laughing
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
I use Dominator Zoom and generally it's the first half minute rather than the first couple of days that the skis are slightly slower. But probably I'm just not sensitive enough to notice - it's not the brushing that's the problem, but the mess the scraping makes. Gets trodden in on the carpet.
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pam w, so you've not been scraping it off either then, just waxing and leaving it yes?

I know what you mean about the mess-I did mine in the kitchen once on a tiled floor mind you, not carpet and if the wax bits get trodden on they're a ba$tard to shift off tiles even. I do mine in the garage now but it gets cold out there. Could you scrape the wax off outside? I've done that before outside on my patio to stop the mess. Trouble is, the times you tend to do your skis

skisimon, I know a top instructor who, when I asked him (after my mate had told me he just uses the nylon brush) what brush he uses for after waxing his skis, he replied saying that he doesn't use any brush (although he obviously has got a set) he just waxes them, chucks them in the cupboard overnight and then gets them out the next morning and goes to work with them how they are Laughing Laughing I expect after 25 years or more though you get pi$$ed off with doing it all the time, and to be fair, he doesn't need the performance if he's just demonstrating straight running and snowplough turns for example. He probably hasn't even got the skis on half the time of his working week Laughing

He said he would do them properly if he was going out skiing skiing though.

Also I think a lot of instructors have got a "teaching set" where they are skis where they don't mind if they get skied over and stepped on and all that, and their own set which is theirs for when they go out skiing themselves.
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VolklAttivaS5, the line of reasoning I was hoping Axsman would pick up on is that there is a reason one can tell a well-prepped ski when the body is quite still. The well-prepped ski is easier to turn laterally while the bases are on snow.

This makes waxing and base prep more relevant to beginners and learners than high-level advanced skiers.


BTW, the scouring pads mentioned above make it quite easy to get wax off tiles. And you're using too much wax.
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comprex,
Quote:

VolklAttivaS5, the line of reasoning I was hoping Axsman would pick up on is that there is a reason one can tell a well-prepped ski when the body is quite still. The well-prepped ski is easier to turn laterally while the bases are on snow.

This makes waxing and base prep more relevant to beginners and learners than high-level advanced skiers.


Yes I agree.

Quote:

BTW, the scouring pads mentioned above make it quite easy to get wax off tiles. And you're using too much wax.


It's ok, that was last year now so I've got it all off. You're right I was using too much wax so it was producing a lot of scrapings, but now I use a lot less and it makes a lot less mess and is much quicker to scrape and brush them than before.
Either way mind you, even the small amount of scrapings trodden into tiles-man!
So never again in the kitchen Very Happy
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Also-another point about the "is brushing needed" thing. When you get hire skis from a shop then they are usually done for speed with a machine and are polished/structure revealed after waxing, so if you're doing your own by hand then the brushing is basically the machine polishing/structure revealing part of it.

comprex, after doing my own skis for about a year now, I've been repairing any gouges with ptex. Upto now they have only been really shallow ones, hardly worth doing but I've been doing them anyway.

Anyway, on my one set of skis where I went off piste a lot I've got lots of marks/gouges in the base now, one of which, from a rock off piste has taken the base down to the ski itself (it looks like there is metal or wood showing). I have filled it with ptex but it's not taking very well, also the other marks/gouges will take me ages to fill all of them. The local ski shop to me with a machine has closed down so unless I travel I can't get a machine service.

Any advice you can give me? When do you think a machine base grind as in a shop is necessary out of interest?
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I've been doing all my own maintenance for the last couple of seasons.
I find that a base prep and scrape followed by an all temperature glide wax, scrape, bronze brush, nylon brush and then a polish up with an old cotton hankie really makes the earth move for me!
For foreplay I go for a good edge polish with an industrial standard diamond file along the rails. I do this about every five to seven days skiing and find that it helps to minimise damage caused by rocks in off piste traverses and elsewhere.
It stands to reason that a well waxed base and polished rails are more likely to glide over the rocks rather than a dried out base with rails as rough as a rusty hacksaw blade.
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Billy Whizz, yes. What do you think about my base grind question-as in when you do them yourself when do you feel (or if) it is necessary to have a base grind done in a shop?
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VolklAttivaS5 wrote:
When do you think a machine base grind as in a shop is necessary out of interest?
When you're base starts becoming concave/convex it would be required, otherwise however hard you try to work on your edges the angles aren't going to be right (and doing the base edge will be impossible as the base will stop the file from working at the correct angle due to where the bevel guide will be resting in relation to the edge). Creating a picture in Paint to demonstrate as soon as I've finished - I need an excuse to make a visually offensive diagram, I haven't done one for years...

comprex wrote:
This makes waxing and base prep more relevant to beginners and learners than high-level advanced skiers.
Quite, I live life on the edge, my bases want to know what this thing called snow is, they've never met it... wink
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VolklAttivaS5 wrote:

Anyway, on my one set of skis where I went off piste a lot I've got lots of marks/gouges in the base now, one of which, from a rock off piste has taken the base down to the ski itself (it looks like there is metal or wood showing).


Term = "core shot"

Quote:

I have filled it with ptex but it's not taking very well,


Not surprising. Bigger ones of those I usually epoxy-fill the bottom, then either fill the top with Ptex melt or a pre-cut fitted Ptex blank.

Quote:

also the other marks/gouges will take me ages to fill all of them.


Can't help there much, I'm afraid, unless you're willing to invest in a Ptex extrusion gun. Take your time.

Quote:

The local ski shop to me with a machine has closed down so unless I travel I can't get a machine service.


Ouch.

Quote:

Any advice you can give me? When do you think a machine base grind as in a shop is necessary out of interest?


- bases too high or convex
- base bevels looking ragged, too ragged to polish with a hand stone
- after repairs to torn-out or punched-in edges
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skisimon, ok, no not needed yet then, they haven't had that much use really. What about my gouge in the base of my ski down to the ski material? It's only about the size of a 1 cent piece though, the ptex keeps wearing out, I could use up loads of ptex trying to do all the lines/marks/gouges. Will a machine "buff it all out"? I suppose what I'm asking is can you have a "buff" on the machine rather than a base grind? Or is it the same?

I don't know what these shop machines do really because I only took mine to a shop twice and then started doing them myself because the shop was really expensive.
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As promised, a visually offensive diagram...
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VolklAttivaS5, the shop can use an extrusion gun on the spots and then do a "light" grind. How light light is depends on the guy running the machine.
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