 Poster: A snowHead
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Hey. I'm looking into a ski trip to the Arlberg area in late January 2019. I've seen a number of websites about the new Flexenbahn. I'm curious about the time it takes to go from resort to resort via this new system.
How long would it take, if I started in St. Anton and went to Lech and then from Lech to Warth/Schrocken?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Allow a full day to do this, get to Warth and turn around to head back, the flexenbahn is often busy and big queues at other link lifts. We decided it was easier to take the car to Lech if we wanted to ski that area.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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There's a bus from town center to Lech that runs every hour at about 15 minutes past. Gives you more time to explore Warth. There are pinch points along the way and if you get caught in these you might only get a limited amount of time before you have to head back.
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@monkbeer, It's a great outing, easily doable in a day in January.
Don't take the car or the bus that spoils the fun
no 'pinch points' in late January - you'll walk onto every lift
Have lunch in the S1 place at the bottom of the salborjet lift area. If you're tight for time, turn round there, rather than going across to Warth itself as that journey is a bit trappy with a few old slow lifts
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Easiest way is grab the 8/830(cant remember exactly) bus from Anton to lech, get off at the far end at Schlosskopf, enjoy the crazy chair over the river up from there and be in Warth/Schroken for the morning, for the afternoon follow the white ring round to Zurs and flexenbahn it back to Anton.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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The Flexenbahn system would be of little value, if you couldn't get around the resort in one day. I don't want to spend too much time on lift systems though. The good thing is, if you get stuck in Lech, you can take a bus back.
I'll be coming from München and there is a good chance I'll be driving. Do you usually need snow chains getting around the Arlberg area, or are Winter tires (tyres) good enough?
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| monkbeer wrote: |
| The Flexenbahn system would be of little value, if you couldn't get around the resort in one day. |
Sorry, but that is nonsense. But in fact, the problem is that many people think that's indeed the purpose of it. All hastily getting to Lech (even that can be too much), without touching the excellent pistes in Zürs....
Trying to do the Run of Fame (under ideal circumstances it is possible within 5,30 hours, excl. lunchstop) means just doing that, and very often with thousands of others (who are all joining in on that first sunny day, just like you...), totally unrelaxed, and totally missing the great pistes, or hitting the few available on the Run when everybody is there... And then there are the queues...
Already, many people staying in St.Anton are getting on the bus (again) to ski in Lech for the day, really optimizing it that way.
The Run of Fame just is not the greatest way to spend your day around the Arlberg. Not at all.
And yes, chains can definitely be necessary, even obligated around the Arlberg
Last edited by Then you can post your own questions or snow reports... on Thu 22-03-18 22:12; edited 1 time in total
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If you go up first lifts at St Anton, and ski Madloch to Zug, then expect to arrive at the bottom of the Sonnenjet just before 11am. The Sonnenjet is the first lift on the Warth-Schröcken end of the Auenfeldjet. To make that timing, you will need to ski briskly and not hang about, but you don’t need to race at insane speeds.
Whether you ski over, or use the bus, depends on your motives. If the end goal is to get to Warth as early as possible, get the first Post Bus over to Lech. From memory, it leaves West Terminal around 8am. You will have to wait a bit for lift open. The other option, which we have open to us, is to drive to Lech or Zürs, and start from there.
We ski over, because we enjoy the scenery, and the sense of the journey.
Whether you will need chains depends on where you are staying. There are some pretty steep streets at the western end of the village, and above Nasserein, which if icy, might be tricky without them. In general, you should be okay with decent winter tyres.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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| ulmerhutte wrote: |
| If you go up first lifts at St Anton, and ski Madloch to Zug, then expect to arrive at the bottom of the Sonnenjet just before 11am. |
Sorry, but this is only under ideal circumstances, and for those who know the area. And even then it is unlikely.
You are underestimating the time it takes to find the way for novices in the area. Big time!! We had friends coming over from St.Anton, meeting them at Trittkopf basestation. They started at approx 09.10 at Galzig bahn. We met them in Zürs at 11.00 am. Hard to imagine anyone making it at the Sonnenjet at 11.00......
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@Langerzug, I have my doubts that the Run of Fame can be done in 5.5 hours, except perhaps in the most ideal conditions and tucking wherever possible.
Just for the heck of it, I did ski all the areas in one day, including down to Schröcken (and hence had to use the bus to Salober) and Rendl. It took all day, without breaks. And... that did not include going to each of the markers, eg in Rendl, I only did R1. Going over to the marker at the top of Riffel 1 would have added maybe 10 min, which I did not have.
Now, if you are Marcel, then...
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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| Langerzug wrote: |
| ulmerhutte wrote: |
| If you go up first lifts at St Anton, and ski Madloch to Zug, then expect to arrive at the bottom of the Sonnenjet just before 11am. |
Sorry, but this is only under ideal circumstances, and for those who know the area. And even then it is unlikely.
You are underestimating the time it takes to find the way for novices in the area. Big time!! We had friends coming over from St.Anton, meeting them at Trittkopf basestation. They started at approx 09.10 at Galzig bahn. We met them in Zürs at 11.00 am. Hard to imagine anyone making it at the Sonnenjet at 11.00...... |
You love to call “nonsense” on people. I am going to return the favour. Unless your friends were low level intermediate, or beginner, skiers, there is no way that it would take almost 2 hours to get to Zürs, starting at 9:10am. They must have stopped for beers at my namesake, Ulmerhütte.
It is also nonsense that a reasonable skiers cannot get to the Sonnenjet by 11am. I have done it... many times.
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@ulmerhutte, Yes, they were slowish intermediates. But most important: new to the area. You are not.
Think about finding the way to Flexenbahn from Galzig, or crossing Zürs, or finding the Auenfeldjet from Kriegerhorn (many people go wrong there). Not to mention the small disaster of getting back from Warth to Salober....
And well, isn't nonsense to say the only purpose of the Flexenbahn is to get to Warth from St.Anton? I'm Dutch, we're not beating around the bush. Saves us time and money 
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You know it makes sense.
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It's more than possible to do in a day, some people in late January this year were saying that the Madloch lift was a pinch point when going from St Anton to Lech, I however found the lift ok, the problem was the 40 minute lift que to get onto the lift (this happened two days in a row). After this experience we took the hire car from st anton to lech if heading that way, the group I was with don't ski slow so if you are with a slower group it will be a big day.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@Langerzug, fair enough. There are a few places where it is easy to go wrong, if you don’t know the area. You noted one of them. Skiing by following a piste map is bloody difficult.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| red 27 wrote: |
@monkbeer, It's a great outing, easily doable in a day in January.
Don't take the car or the bus that spoils the fun
no 'pinch points' in late January - you'll walk onto every lift
Have lunch in the S1 place at the bottom of the salborjet lift area. If you're tight for time, turn round there, rather than going across to Warth itself as that journey is a bit trappy with a few old slow lifts |
Lots of bad lift queues in late Jan, if you just want the outing, take the lifts but if you want any time in Lech / Warth, take the car / bus
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@ulmerhutte, You too must admit that the Arlberg-skimap is quite unreadable in many places, and often plain wrong....check the end of the Zürsertäli piste going into Zürs, or the position of the central Oberlech hotels relative to the piste, the end of the Wiesele route in Lech, etc. etc.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@monkbeer, Get out early, pre 9am from Galzig, ski fast and you'll be in Warth for 10.45-11am, get out late ski slow, get stuck in traffic and queues and you'll be there for 1pm or might never get there. Just get up early, get out, keep moving and you don't have a problem, it's an awesome lift over to Trittkopf. Plenty of people diss-ing it but I've never queued and/ or had any issues with it.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Langerzug wrote: |
| @ulmerhutte, You too must admit that the Arlberg-skimap is quite unreadable in many places, and often plain wrong....check the end of the Zürsertäli piste going into Zürs, or the position of the central Oberlech hotels relative to the piste, the end of the Wiesele route in Lech, etc. etc. |
No argument on that point. As I said above, I would hate to be relying on the piste map to find my way around. Bad enough of sunny day, impossible on a whiteout.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@ulmerhutte,
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No argument on that point. As I said above, I would hate to be relying on the piste map to find my way around. Bad enough of sunny day, impossible on a whiteout.
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Yep, never used one! It is not accurate at all.
With all the information available on line with interactive maps etc my view is that anyone who turns up in resort and relies on a paper A3 sized map to find their way about, and does no pre-planning and gets lost and moans about the piste map quality should perhaps do some research before their arrival. It never ceases to amaze me how many people haven't got a clue where they are......frequently I get asked how to get back to St Anton, or where is X or Y etc......no problem happy to help, but especially in bad weather they get caught out which is pretty crazy in my view. Also surprises me how many people appear to not plan their route before they set out for their day, and who'se route planning sends them straight into lift queues and black runs they feel unable to do and they then again blame the resort.....same people I guess who haven't a clue how to drive from A to B without a satnav.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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@Markymark29, Never.... 
Last edited by You'll need to Register first of course. on Fri 23-03-18 12:14; edited 1 time in total
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| Markymark29 wrote: |
| @monkbeer, Get out early, pre 9am from Galzig, ski fast and you'll be in Warth for 10.45-11am, get out late ski slow, get stuck in traffic and queues and you'll be there for 1pm or might never get there. Just get up early, get out, keep moving and you don't have a problem, it's an awesome lift over to Trittkopf. Plenty of people diss-ing it but I've never queued and/ or had any issues with it. |
This. Only the OP knows his party their capabilities and level of faff. Overcrowding in any ski resort usually arises where tourists do the same things at the same time, so think different to "tourist head" - don't linger over breakfast, have your sh*t together, know where you are going, keep moving.
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| Markymark29 wrote: |
| @monkbeer, Get out early, pre 9am from Galzig, ski fast and you'll be in Warth for 10.45-11am, get out late ski slow, get stuck in traffic and queues and you'll be there for 1pm or might never get there. Just get up early, get out, keep moving and you don't have a problem, it's an awesome lift over to Trittkopf. Plenty of people diss-ing it but I've never queued and/ or had any issues with it. |
This. Only the OP knows his party their capabilities and level of faff. Overcrowding in any ski resort usually arises where tourists do the same things at the same time, so think different to "tourist head" - don't linger over breakfast, have your sh*t together, know where you are going, keep moving. |
Might be...but:
1.people are on holiday, it is not another early day at the office....
2.the 'geographical' structure of Arlberg makes crowds and queues almost unavoidable since Flexenbahn. It is an 'dumbell-shape', with Alpe Rauz-Zürs in the middle plus the additional issue of St.Anton attracting crowds for which it in fact is not a very suitable skiresort, who then 'flee' to Lech...
It is just not very useful to be condescending about this. It is reality, and it is the talk of the town. Lech's mayor recently thought it necessary to have a press-release about it, admitting 'things have changed' and saying things to try to calm people down.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Langerzug, Yep never, I have used the Interlink on line maps and planned routes obviously but have never used an Arlberg piste map on the hill.
? Might be the talk of the town, I'll leave that with you - its not one i'm embroiled in - rather the contrary if it comes up, it's the best investment since the new Galzigbahn and Rendlbahn as far as I am concerned. I'm looking forward to Zurs doing similar with Madloch and Zug then Arlberg will be totally world class, that's where the issues lie currently, not with the Flexenbahn however I guess the Zurs folk would maybe rather talk down the new lift and blame "tourists" from St Anton coming over than invest in their own infrastructure. Isn't that nearer the truth?
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@Markymark29,
The Flexenbahn is owned by SkiZürs AG and Stuben Tourism.
And SkiZürs AG is owned by the Zürs hoteliers.
So that's not the point.
The point is that they either:
1. underestimated the crowds from St.Anton and/or
2. assumed the Kappl connection to be realized, or realized soon (originally planned for this winter....) and/or
3. were so frustrated about hotel business in Zürs being growing poorer and poorer compared to Lech (but still not very poor of course  ) that they just wanted to connect to St.Anton
Don't get me wrong: I'm not persé against the connection.
You might be fine with it, knowing your ways around it. But I think you can also see the issues at Valfagehr, Flexen, Trittkopf and indeed Madloch/Seekopf
A new lift at Madloch and Zug (but they will also have to adapt the Madloch-decent (aka make it easier, eliminate bottlenecks, thus make it less pretty) will change a lot, and indeed probably solve most of the Zürs problems
In the end maybe the issue is more about timing: with Kappl and Madloch solved earlier, things would have looked much better
But they also need to work on Valfagehr.
And I'm still sad about the loss of the magnificent Trittkopf pistes. These are nowadays only to be enjoyed before 09.30......
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Langerzug wrote: |
@Markymark29,
The Flexenbahn is owned by SkiZürs AG and Stuben Tourism.
And SkiZürs AG is owned by the Zürs hoteliers.
So that's not the point.
The point is that they either:
1. underestimated the crowds from St.Anton and/or
2. assumed the Kappl connection to be realized, or realized soon (originally planned for this winter....) and/or
3. were so frustrated about hotel business in Zürs being growing poorer and poorer compared to Lech (but still not very poor of course ) that they just wanted to connect to St.Anton
...... |
I vote 4. They totally cocked up the order of upgrades - they should have put 6 packs in at Madloch and Zug before linking to Alpe Rauz. It's fairly obvious - the White Ring is a one way circuit and the only thing that kept St Anton hordes away before was the scrum for the bus.
As for 3. That's really about Zuers being a bleak unattractive place to stay as much as anything surely. Fine if you stay in you 5 star spa, less so if you want an evening stroll around an attractive village.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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But really what they should have done was bid for independence - with the Warth connection Lech Zuers finally had a "world class" size area in their own right. St Anton powderhounds would have been quite happy sticking to St A & Stuben. But I suspect someone still wanted that share of St Anton ticket revenues and lunch spend.
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| Quote: |
And I'm still sad about the loss of the magnificent Trittkopf pistes. These are nowadays only to be enjoyed before 09.30......
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I went up to the top of Trittkopf a couple of weeks ago, and it was all moguls from top to bottom, about 2 - 3 miles I guess. I can imagine that it would be a great run after its been bashed.
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You know it makes sense.
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I might suggest skiing from St. Anton in the morning getting over to Warth. Then skiing back as far as Lech to get the bus back to St. A in the evening. Would this be a better option and make for more time in Warth and less stressing about getting "home" after lunch?
Qualifier - don't know the area well having only visited St. Anton once about 7yrs ago. However, I'm planning on a return next year (26/1/19 - 2/2/19)
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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| halfhand wrote: |
I might suggest skiing from St. Anton in the morning getting over to Warth. Then skiing back as far as Lech to get the bus back to St. A in the evening. Would this be a better option and make for more time in Warth and less stressing about getting "home" after lunch?
Qualifier - don't know the area well having only visited St. Anton once about 7yrs ago. However, I'm planning on a return next year (26/1/19 - 2/2/19) |
Possibly better to do it the other way round. Get the bus to lech in the morning and ski all the way back. The ski bus from lech to St Anton in the late afternoon has always been a mad scrum when I've been there. Also the lech->zurs part of the white ring is easier/faster than zurs>lech. Only downside is your last run in St Anton will be the kandahar when you are getting a bit tired, and will be packed with people struggling to ski on it at all. At least it gives you an excuse to stopoff for a beer or three in Heustadtl/KK/Griabli/Moose whatever your preferred mode of apres-ski is.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| Dave of the Marmottes wrote: |
| But really what they should have done was bid for independence - with the Warth connection Lech Zuers finally had a "world class" size area in their own right. St Anton powderhounds would have been quite happy sticking to St A & Stuben. But I suspect someone still wanted that share of St Anton ticket revenues and lunch spend. |
Even more so: St.Anton- being more famous- has always been Lech's main marketing machine...Afterall for many people it goes like "Once St.Anton, always Lech"
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Did the full loop St Anton - Zurs - Zug - Warth and back on a sunny day last week. Two of us, fast intermediate skiers. Early start (first on the Gampen chair out of St A, avoiding the huge scrum for the Galzigbahn). No diversions in the morning, direct route straight to Warth with a quick coffee in Zurs. No lift queues anywhere and we still didn’t get to Warth until noon sharp. Had a lunch break, then started back 12.30ish. Couple of diversions in Lech to try out some of the runs. Onto the Valfagehrbahn by around 3.45 and down into St Anton by 4.30. 25 lifts in total, didn’t have Ski Tracks on but I would estimate 40-45km of piste distance covered.
All in all a very rushed day with little chance to savour the huge variety of skiing in each of the different villages. Warth was particularly appealling with its great lifts, north-facing slopes and lack of crowds. But from St Anton I don’t think you could ever get more than 1-1.5 hrs here if you wanted to make it back before the lifts close.
Main pinchpoint for us was the Rufikopfbahn out of Lech village - Flexenbahn was ok both ways, as were Valfagherbahn, Madlochbahn and Zurserseebahn although we saw huge queues at all of these lifts on other days of our trip.
My thoughts are that this has changed the nature of the area - it now (like it or not) competing with the mega French resorts. I guess that further developments will be planned to remove the pinchpoints and spread the load across the area better. Hopefully without changing the nature of each of the individual ski areas!
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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If you just want to ski to Schrocken and come back from Warth (bus between two) without stopping...i.e non stop startigng at 08:45 St Anton..Zurs ,Zug, Arlenfeldjet..Schrocken, Warth ,Lech Zurs, St Anton its possoble to be back in St Anton by 13:30
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Yep, take the Arlenfeldjet (...) to go skiing to Schröcken and return by bus. Greatest thing you can do around the Arlberg....
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
Yep, take the Arlenfeldjet
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New lift? Not heard of that one  @Langerzug,
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FAQ
) , and to know the area. They had a Semmel in the chairlift. They did the real thing, Lech-Rendl-Warth-Lech.
