 Poster: A snowHead
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I'm a fairly experienced snowboarder but I've just started to learn to ski. I can't help but think that my sticking-out feet are going to make life complicated for me. If I put my feet parallel as they would be on skis, and bend my knees, my knees come together; if I prevent them from doing that (which I understand makes for a better stance) then the outside edge of the balls of my feet come under extra pressure at the expense of other parts of my feet, causing what currently feels like crushing of the outer foot balls - though perhaps this is just because the boots are new and perhaps I even need to get them fitted to make them slightly wider at that point.
On my snowboard, I have pretty wide duck angles which allows me to bend my knees and have my upper and lower legs remain in line with each other.
I do a lot of inline skating and would have the same issue except that when you have a decent level of skating you rarely skate with both feet on the ground at the same time (except during the push, naturally) and so, although I certainly do notice that rather than going straight forward I tend to curve outwards on each foot due to their natural angles, it does't cause any issue because there's no requirement for the skates to run parallel. Indeed, because coasting mainly happens on one foot at a time I can adjust my path so that I roll straight forwards if I wish to - but I don't feel much need to do so since it doesn't affect technique much.
On skis it's a different story because of the length of the ski - and I think it's one reason why I've never been that attracted to skiing in the past; the skis seem too long and get in the way of each other due to my natural foot angles.
Also, on my skates I can adjust the wheel truck so that it is at an angle with the boot; rather than running straight from toe to heel, it points inwards to the big toe a little; this allows my feet to stick out but the path I follow to be slightly straighter. I guess there's no analogous thing with ski bindings?
Does anyone have experience of this or advice to offer? Thanks!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Sounds like an underling biomechanical problem. May be fixable, depending on how bad, how mobile, range of motion, effects on rest of body. Nobody can really tell without seeing/examining you. Appropriate footbeds may help. You need to be seen by an experienced fitter and /or a Podiatrist who understands boarding mechanics.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Footbeds seem to be the obvious 1st point of call, beyond that there are bout designs which claim to adjust for such e.g. Fischer Soma. See a very good biitfitter would be my advice.
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Start off by going to a physiotherapist who includes Pilates techniques - by working on your core strength you'll be amazed at how much you can straighten up - I was!
Unfortunately you have to keep up the exercises most days 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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You have somethin which ( in medical terms) doesnt exist. Your foot heavily pronates, part lf that is abduction the extermal rotation of the foot, when you bring your feet parallel and into a rearfoot neutral position you create a forefoot varus position with the front of your foot ( loading the outter edge with the big toe side baring noweight)
First thign is stretching, then the correct footbeds t support the foot best as possible and then boot selection needs to be an upright boot shaft posssibly a heel lift or possibly an externally Rotated boot like the fisher somatec stance models
It is s tough foot to fit
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You'll need to Register first of course.
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I have the Fischer progresser in 110's, upgrade for me this year from a terribly fitted pair of head edge 11's. They allegedly allow someone with a naturally outward turned stance ski more neutrally with becoming knock-kneed. I love them, and the pair I got with the standard liners and a pair of hotfeet did the job for me, they get a massive thumbs up. But every foot is a unique snowflake, so.....off to a bootfitter with yourself!
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Pyremaniac What you describe sounds very much like my own feet and legs. If (like me) you stand on the outside of your feet and have high insoles, it is supination rather than pronation. Without correction you will find parallel turns difficult, catch outside edges and find drag lifts a nightmare.
Of course your problem may well be different from mine. I strongly recommend consulting a podiatrist, preferably one who knows about skiing. Take any boots and insoles with you. When I first discovered that my supination could be corrected by orthotics (back in the 80s no bootfitter or instructor ever told me!) the podiatrist stuck some custom made wedges on the outside edges of my existing ski boot insoles. I found this counter-intuitive, but the effect was to roll my feet over so that the weight was evenly balanced. The result was amazing. for the first time in over 25 years of skiing I could do parallel turns, carve etc! I now have custom made insoles, which are even better.
So, whatever your problem may be, get it fixed now, rather than wait. A podiatrist can also help with everyday walking, skating etc. I do not know how old you are, but over time misalignment of any sort leads to wear and tear in the joints - i.e. osteoarthritis. As well as being painful, this causes swelling which hinders free movement. Another reason for getting it looked at by a podiatrist now. Good luck!
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Pyremaniac, CEM obviously is an amazingly experienced expert in this field and his advice is vital. The advice from Peterkct also is spot on. Wedges can really help. But I have a thought...are you sure the cant on your boots (if adjustable) hasn't been set to a weird setting? On upper model boots the cant can be quite significantly adjusted, and minor errors in this can produce the pressure effects which you are experiencing - just a thought....
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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New footbeds from Rivington Alpine cured my duck feet (when I'm skiing anyway) and enabled me to keep my skis together much easier than before
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Thanks everyone! There's lots of advice to think aboout there. It sounds like visiting a bootfitter is an essential first step, possibly followed by consulting a podiatrist. At the moment the problem is a little bit hypothetical: I'm just starting out and I think my boots (which I've only used once so far) might need adjustment regardless of foot angles, so I don't have the experience to know whether the boots themselves "break in" over the first few days and become more comfortable, nor whether basic fitting alone would remove any issue. I merely think that the foot angles "ought" to cause issues because skiing parallel would seem to fight against my biomechanics.
I'll let you know how I get on in due course.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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| Pyremaniac wrote: |
I'm a fairly experienced snowboarder but I've just started to learn to ski. I can't help but think that my sticking-out feet are going to make life complicated for me. If I put my feet parallel as they would be on skis, and bend my knees, my knees come together; if I prevent them from doing that (which I understand makes for a better stance) then the outside edge of the balls of my feet come under extra pressure at the expense of other parts of my feet, causing what currently feels like crushing of the outer foot balls - though perhaps this is just because the boots are new and perhaps I even need to get them fitted to make them slightly wider at that point.
On my snowboard, I have pretty wide duck angles which allows me to bend my knees and have my upper and lower legs remain in line with each other.
I do a lot of inline skating and would have the same issue except that when you have a decent level of skating you rarely skate with both feet on the ground at the same time (except during the push, naturally) and so, although I certainly do notice that rather than going straight forward I tend to curve outwards on each foot due to their natural angles, it does't cause any issue because there's no requirement for the skates to run parallel. Indeed, because coasting mainly happens on one foot at a time I can adjust my path so that I roll straight forwards if I wish to - but I don't feel much need to do so since it doesn't affect technique much.
On skis it's a different story because of the length of the ski - and I think it's one reason why I've never been that attracted to skiing in the past; the skis seem too long and get in the way of each other due to my natural foot angles.
Also, on my skates I can adjust the wheel truck so that it is at an angle with the boot; rather than running straight from toe to heel, it points inwards to the big toe a little; this allows my feet to stick out but the path I follow to be slightly straighter. I guess there's no analogous thing with ski bindings?
Does anyone have experience of this or advice to offer? Thanks! |
I'm resurrecting an old post as I'm wondering whether you made any progress with your duck feet. I have the same problem that I'm trying to address now, but ultimately not sure whether there is anything to be done. I know it's a case by case basis so I've recently started physical therapy and have an appointment with an orthopedic this week. I recently visited a well know boot fitter in Vermont who essentially told me I needed Physical Therapy rather than a boot fitter. He was pretty blunt when he said I was not built for skiing.
My feet point out at a fairly sever angle and I've had this since childhood so I'm assuming its bone/hip related rather than a muscular imbalance though I won't know for sure until we take xrays. Like you when I force my skis to run parallel, my knees track in making carving difficult if not impossible. At this point though what bothers me most is the quad burn I get from having my quads under strain constantly. I've reached a level somehow where I can keep up with most people if I didn't have to stop every 75-100 yards to rest my legs. Once stopped I can let my feet and skis by extension point out at their normal angle and relax, but once pointed downhill and forced into parallel the burn comes back pretty quickly. One thing I haven't tried is to exercise my quads when they are forced in to simulate my skiing stance. Perhaps that will at least help with the fatigue.
I see that you snowboard and that gives me hope that at least I can hopefully learn to snowboard. I took one lesson last week and found it is hard to learn. My rental board though wasn't set up with enough angle for my back foot though so I was feeling some discomfort there, but looks like I can address that by adjusting the angle so that my foot can be in a more natural position. I'll have to experiment and maybe get a cheap used board that I can adjust on my own.
I've read where people have mounted their bindings at an angle but ski shops won't do it for you so you'd have to know how to actually mount bindings in the first place, before you attempted to mount at an angle. I've also found out that Fischer boots are starting to do away with their somatech boots, though they probably wouldn't help much anyway. Anyways would love to hear if you made any progress since your original post.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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I had a similar problem. Some custom footbeds expertly made by Graham at Rivington Alpine made a great improvement to alignment of my foot bones and my feet are now parallel
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| On the rocks wrote: |
| I had a similar problem. Some custom footbeds expertly made by Graham at Rivington Alpine made a great improvement to alignment of my foot bones and my feet are now parallel |
That's great that they helped you I'm somewhat jealous. My feet are so bad that custom made footbeds haven't helped. When I sit in the chair lift, my left ski points left and my right ski points right both at a good angle. I have no choice but to force them inline my rotating both legs. I was going to upload an image but couldn't figure out how.
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You know it makes sense.
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@lpass, well I can't ride my road bike with clip in pedals without an extension between the crank and pedal to stop my heel catching on the crank. Graham's method involved putting a line of markers on my shin and ankle then using a laser to make me force my feet to align them whilst he moulded the foot-bed material under my foot so I would maintain the position whilst skiing
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@On the rocks, Sounds like Graham knows what he is doing and I haven't run across that technique here in New England. Speaking of bikes, have you found that it effects your quads at all. I don't road bike, but am an avid mountain biker but I ride with flats. I never thought about my duck feet affecting my riding, but my quads fatigue quickly while mountain biking as well and that's with biking twice a week all spring, summer and fall. My current plan is to continue with Physical Therapy and see how much we can straighten my feet that way and also see what the orthro says and then go for another boot fitting before next season in the hope that the degree of rotation is at least less. Maybe I should visit England and see Graham before next season.
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Poster: A snowHead
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| CEM wrote: |
| You have somethin which ( in medical terms) doesnt exist. |
Torsion twist in your tibia will cause your feet to point of centre.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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| Mr.Egg wrote: |
| CEM wrote: |
| You have somethin which ( in medical terms) doesnt exist. |
Torsion twist in your tibia will cause your feet to point of centre. |
yes it will, the original post said ok in a duck footed stance then the knees drop in when feet are parallel, so a false forefoot varus is created (something being called a forefoot varus which is really forefoot supinatus) hence the statement that medically it does not exist
most common cause is tight calf / hamstring
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@lpass, cycling doesn't effect my quads, apart from being tired at the end of the day on my local hills. I have a mountain bike with flat pedals too. I'm very careful with set up of my bikes, saddle height and for/aft position, crank length and stem length etc. If you have flat pedals I don't see how duck feed would affect your quads, however if you haven't already done so it may be worth checking your bike set up, either looking at on line guides or going for a specialist bike fit? A poor bike fit may even contribute to the calf/hamstring issues that CEM mentions? when making changes to bike adjustments it is best to make small incremental changes, eg 0.5 cm at a time so that your get used to or adapt to the changes. Apologies if you already know this and good luck.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| CEM wrote: |
| Mr.Egg wrote: |
| CEM wrote: |
| You have somethin which ( in medical terms) doesnt exist. |
Torsion twist in your tibia will cause your feet to point of centre. |
yes it will, the original post said ok in a duck footed stance then the knees drop in when feet are parallel, so a false forefoot varus is created (something being called a forefoot varus which is really forefoot supinatus) hence the statement that medically it does not exist
most common cause is tight calf / hamstring |
I have a torsion twist in my tib & my knee drops in if I put my foot straight. My heel also lifts when I bend at the knee. If my heel dont left, then my knee comes across more.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@On the rocks, No apology needed. I know some, but I'm always learning and quite frankly I've never had a professional fitting on my current bike and that's something I will definitely do before Spring season begins. On
I'll update the post once I've seen the Orthopedic doctor.
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So I went to an Orthopedic specialist today and the news was not good. We took x-rays of my hips and feet. The Doctor said the problem was not in my hips. He said I had Tibial Torsion that is causing the external rotation of the feet. He said all the Physical Therapy in the world won't correct the problem. There is a surgical procedure that involves massive expense and a very lengthy recovery time so that is out of the question. I suppose I will just have to ski as best as I can and enjoy what I can do instead of bemoan what I can't.
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@lpass, sorry to hear that dude, but like you say you can still ski or board and get enjoyment from it!
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FAQ
). Replacement boots have not been successful so I'm after all the help I can get.
