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Moguls

 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
I wanna go back to long and straight....


http://youtube.com/v/lzQKDslU3Bw
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Stop the brutal grooming...
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
That just looks so Naff!!
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@Gyro, ???

“Naff”? For why, pray tell?
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
I understand the skill levels involved in riding bumps the way they do (I wish I was that good) and no disrespect to the skiers, but I've just got to say it looks naff.
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@Gyro, naff = pinnacle of skiing skill??
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Bumps = fair enough if you like that sort of thing and its certainly remarkable but I'm with Gyro on the naff when it comes to the shapes in the air - makes me cringe. Nearly as bad as the ski pole gymnastics from a similar era.
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
I always think of pain when I see them skiing moguls in the Olympics, I would need new knees if I did that.
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Jonny Moseley ripping moguls is majestic and the daffy is the finest aerial move going. That is all
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Well after just about managing to stay upright when faced with only about a dozen in a row half way down a blue run recently, I have to say it’s pretty impressive
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
under a new name wrote:
Stop the brutal grooming...


+1
The pistes are becoming so boring, especially around the Sella Ronda.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Gyro wrote:
I understand the skill levels involved in riding bumps the way they do (I wish I was that good) and no disrespect to the skiers, but I've just got to say it looks naff.


Must be a xbox skier
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
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@Sack the Juggler, proper technique means minimal knee strain
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 You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Not naff:


http://youtube.com/v/YBtN4gRtXOU
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Still naff, and the group coming down together!!

Just to clarify, I know their skill level is off the chart but even so, looks naff.
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
nothing beats the superior feeling you get when you've completed a good mogul run. Love it!!!
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 Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
They are all very good skiers; much better than me! Both videos show skiing down what appear to be soft bumps, with clouds of slushy snow being thrown up everywhere. That makes life slightly easier. Try the same on frozen bumps early in the morning and it's a different game. How do you become that good? I have no idea! I try to ski bumps as often as I can during a holiday. I am now at the stage where they don't scare me any more, but I can only string one or two turns together before I have to traverse a few. Anybody got any tips?
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
kditrj2d wrote:
Anybody got any tips?

I'm not a particularly good bump skier, but one of the things that has helped, is dealing with the braking that happens when hitting the back of the bump; and the acceleration when going down the front...this is what throws you out of balance.

There are 2 things you can do:
1. Push your feet forwards as you hit the back of the bump (to mitigate the braking) and pull your feet back as you go over the top (which pushes the tips down and keeps you from being pushed back). This is of course in conjunction with absorption....it feels a bit like cycling backwards (with both feet on one pedal)....or
2. Actively pull your knees up just before you hit the bump, which removes the shock + pull heels back at the same time, to push tips down.

Once you remain in balance, it's easier to keep control for more turns.


Last edited by Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see? on Wed 21-02-18 22:38; edited 2 times in total
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kditrj2d wrote:
Anybody got any tips?

It's nearly all in the absorption. Biggest mistake I see is people standing up (unweighting) on top of the mogul and then they lose effective contact with the snow, accelerate and the rest is history. I learned back in the day when skis were straight and moguls were more uniform and had a guy shouting "absorb, absorb, absorb" at me for ages before it suddenly all clicked. It's absorption by flexing at knees and ankles, not by bending at the waist though. Need to be loose/relaxed to do it well and for most that is the opposite of what they feel like.
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kditrj2d wrote:
Anybody got any tips?


Ski much more 2-footed than you would in other circumstances, and the skis closer together.
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dont forget to go around them and not over them.
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Two videos to demonstrate what I mean:


http://youtube.com/v/bRCiAvdyBIQ



http://youtube.com/v/eGRhwMaOzt0
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
I thought those kids .. one with an Italian badged helmet looked particularly good.

Most of the rest made me think they had sped the video up somewhat .. it was just so fast for real life.

But it was entertaining .. and hats off to the skills of these people .. all of them.
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Stand on a chair, step off and land with both feet on the floor. You’ll naturally absorb the impact by bending your legs.

Perhaps one in a hundred moguls will come at you like that. Easy.

The other 99 will have a slope on them. You can still absorb the impact (slow yourself down) with the same motion BUT you have to add in some lateral force to resist your skis’ tendency to shoot out sideways.

Then ski over the shoulder of the mogul and quickly pull your boots backwards to engage your front edges on the back of it.
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Old Fartbag wrote:

1. Push your feet forwards as you hit the back of the bump (to mitigate the breaking) and pull your feet back as you go over the top (which pushes the tips down and keeps you from being pushed back). This is of course in conjunction with absorption....it feels a bit like cycling backwards (with both feet on one pedal).

That's not what the guy in your first video is saying though... he says push you feet forward before you hit the bump. As you hit the bump it will push your feet back.
I'd have thought that pushing your feet forwards as you hit the bump would put you more off balance, on the back of your skis, no?
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Tubaski wrote:

That's not what the guy in your first video is saying though... he says push you feet forward before you hit the bump. As you hit the bump it will push your feet back.
I'd have thought that pushing your feet forwards as you hit the bump would put you more off balance, on the back of your skis, no?

They are slightly different ways of achieving the same thing.

With regard to pushing your feet forward - all I can say is try it.

When you hit the upside of a mogul, you will slow down. This can cause you to break at the waist. Pushing your feet forward (by the right amount) offsets this breaking effect...in the same way as pulling your feet back keeps you in control on the downside. Its all about remaining in balance as you abruptly slow down and speed up.

If you are stood on a train (not holding onto anything), that starts to brake, you will automatically lean back, to stop falling forwards. If someone took a photo at that moment, you would appear to be leaning back...but you are actually in balance.
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 And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
As you stand at the top of the run, try to relax and enjoy it - taking a deep breath and smiling before you set off can help. Start slowly, 1 turn at a time. Turn on top of the bump and slide down the back of it into the valley and up the front of the next one, turn and repeat. Keeping your feet close together stops you ending up with 1 foot on top of a bump and the other at the bottom. This method makes it easier to control your speed. Traversing means you go bangbangbangbang without losing height so is a waste of effort and makes life harder for yourself as you pick up speed and lose control. Don't think too hard about pushing your feet forwards and backwards, just try to stay balanced and relatively upright. Overthinking what your feet do can be counterproductive - you don't analyse what they're doing when walking down the street! Laughing
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 So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
Gordyjh wrote:
As you stand at the top of the run, try to relax and enjoy it - taking a deep breath and smiling before you set off can help. Start slowly, 1 turn at a time. Turn on top of the bump and slide down the back of it into the valley and up the front of the next one, turn and repeat. Keeping your feet close together stops you ending up with 1 foot on top of a bump and the other at the bottom. This method makes it easier to control your speed. Traversing means you go bangbangbangbang without losing height so is a waste of effort and makes life harder for yourself as you pick up speed and lose control. Don't think too hard about pushing your feet forwards and backwards, just try to stay balanced and relatively upright. Overthinking what your feet do can be counterproductive - you don't analyse what they're doing when walking down the street! Laughing

Speaking personally, I found very generalized instructions like Relax and Stay Balanced, never helped me in moguls....I stopped relaxing and got frustrated as soon as I was thrown off balance.

I wanted to know how to remain in balance - and to understand that, you have to know what happens to your Centre of Gravity when skiing through moguls. Moving your feet backwards and forwards is a simple concept that doesn't require a huge amount of thought...and walking down the street doesn't require constant adjustments to remain in balance and stay in control (and is something that is done more than one week a year - which is often all the time many on here have to ski moguls).
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You know it makes sense.
This is what the generally excellent, witty, charming and fine David Murdoch - well recognised as knowing his onions and other garden produce, especially well-rowed beans and expert in the little known oriental technique of still being able to ski elegantly while too drunk to walk - had to say on this a few years ago, http://snowheads.com/ski-forum/viewtopic.php?p=726971&highlight=one+bump#726971

“In response to rob@rar's question in SnowHot's "Ah-Ha" moment thread, I though I'd expand on one of mine for comment (and/or ridicule). Caveats 1. I am sure this is not the only technique, it just works for me and follows an "Ah-Ha!" moment. 2. I am not an instructor, nor would I want to be seen to pass myself off as one.

Bumps are one of my things. They can offer a great challenge when there's not many other challenges available and I reckon there isn't much better to watch than a good skier zippering a line.

This was around 1996. I was/am reasonably competent, I could hold the fall-line in regular bumps but mostly through momentum and strength. Anyway I went out for a "tune-up" with one of the best instructors I have met (in limited experience of instruction) - Thierry Copreau, ESF Morzine.

Anyway, the "Ah-Ha!" moment was when he asked, "Show me how to turn on one bump. After all, if you can't turn on one, how can you expect to turn on many?"

The lightbulb goes on, "Ah-Ha!". A good question.

Now, I'd read my Sunday Times "We learned to ski" section on "Avalement" turns in bumps and believed that that was what I was doing. But I hadn't considered its deconstruction into a single turn.

So, with TC supporting my pole (poles are almost necessary for this) we set about doing one single turn on one single bump.

Preparation

Start with your skis on the apex of one bump with your skis pointing across the fall line.

Skis together One of the few times where this is necessary. The idea being that one essential element is that your skis can swivel as one on the apex of the bump.

Avalement Literally, to swallow. You bring your legs up as you crest the apex so that the bump is completely absorbed by them. Design faults in the human nervous system mean that until you get used to it, this feels as though you are grossly over-absorbing. In most people I observe skiing, absorption is happening at maybe 20% of what's required.

Fluidity comes with practice. For this single turn though I think you ideally want to be crouched to the point that as you pass over the bump and extend into the trough, your hips follow a straight line down the hill.

Anticipation The idea is that you position yourself so that as your skis slide forward and pass over the apex, they naturally rotate on the top of the bump and you extend into the trough with your skis pointing the other way. In order for them to naturally change direction like this you need to anticipate the turn by extending the arm on the side you want to turn to, out to that side. You don't want to rotate your torso (if you're starting from the fall line) but because your skis are already pointing across the fall line and you are extending your arm in the opposite direction, you end up a little like a wound up spring, ready to trigger the rotation.

Poles Almost essential. Your inside of the turn pole (held in your extended arm) is planted just beside your inside of turn boot.

So for the exercise...which involves a little commitment from both the instructor and the instructee.

Instructor supports the pole and allows the instructee to angulate a little edge into the bump.

Instructee pushes forward a tiny little bit - and provided all the parts are properly lined up - naturally sweeps down the front of the bump extending into the trough and with skis rotated in opposite direction.

Ah-Ha!

A little edge set, more absorption and repeat in opposing directions as required until knackered.”
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 Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Over them/around them = irrelevant.
The bumps do not exist.

There is only the fall-line and the snow your ski is in contact with Toofy Grin
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 Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
admin wrote:
Over them/around them = irrelevant.
The bumps do not exist.

There is only the fall-line and the snow your ski is in contact with Toofy Grin

That was always the plan....tap into your Inner Moguler Madeye-Smiley
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That pretty much echos what I was shown by Dave Beattie (Skivolution) in Le Praz. Get yourself stationary on top of a bump with skis across the fall line. Plant a pole, turn tightly around it whilst sliding down the back of the bump. Soften/absorb the downward motion with your legs so that you come to a dead stop on the top of the next bump. Repeat. Then slowly add speed so that you no longer come to a dead stop on the top of each bump. Easy, huh? Happy
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 Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
admin wrote:
The bumps do not exist.


You're right there. A week of skiing the Sella Ronda and I hardly saw a mogul Confused
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admin wrote:

There is only the fall-line and the snow your ski is in contact with Toofy Grin

Snow
No snow
Snow
No snow
Snow
No snow
Snow
No snow
Snow
No snow
Snow
No snow
Ouch
Ouch
Ouch
Ouch ouch
Ouch ouch ouch
Ughhhhh
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
jellylegs wrote:
admin wrote:
The bumps do not exist.


You're right there. A week of skiing the Sella Ronda and I hardly saw a mogul Confused


Red from Boe to campolongo, late in the day.
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Pruman wrote:
kditrj2d wrote:
Anybody got any tips?

It's nearly all in the absorption. Biggest mistake I see is people standing up (unweighting) on top of the mogul and then they lose effective contact with the snow, accelerate and the rest is history. I learned back in the day when skis were straight and moguls were more uniform and had a guy shouting "absorb, absorb, absorb" at me for ages before it suddenly all clicked. It's absorption by flexing at knees and ankles, not by bending at the waist though. Need to be loose/relaxed to do it well and for most that is the opposite of what they feel like.


This.
But not after lunch.
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referring to above, this is what I meant (apologies for the soundtrack)


Leisse Bumps-SD 2006 from Uann
https://vimeo.com/118394482
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 After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
After all it is free Go on u know u want to!
And you can practice almost anywhere:

http://youtube.com/v/TWBkCDdgj2E
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@under a new name,
That is an excellent post by DM. It is also pretty consistent with the idea that “it’s almost all about the absorption” that I also agree with.

Just because you haven’t said it before:

Good skiers can ski moguls. Moguls are just a device for telling you if you can ski or not. Smile Toofy Grin
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@jedster, the absorption doesn’t have to be hard on your knees though. Slow is smooth, smooth is fast.


Last edited by Ski the Net with snowHeads on Wed 14-03-18 19:42; edited 1 time in total
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