Black runs are easier .....

A snowHead

...... IMV if your technique is good as you can link your turns and concentrate more on technique than on easier runs. The force of gravity brings you down and forces better technical skiing. Easier runs do not really test you and can induce a sloppy lazy technique.

Any views on this?.

A snowHead

..... and importantly require a lot less energy if you let the skis run.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

hibernia, yes, to a point, but speed can be used to mask poor technique, which can lead to people being out of control on steeper runs, because they believe that fast skiing = good skiing.

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In good conditions most of the skiers I know are more likely to fall on an easy flat slope, usually catching an edge through boredom. It is known as "being attacked by a snow fox". A deadly invisible assassin that attacks silently at a very low angle. The conversation usually goes:
"Snowfox?"
"yeh"

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

hibernia, I find that I learn far more at slow speeds on easy terrain than I do on more difficult terrain. With the new skis, I find that even gentle green terrain here in the US is fun, again, whereas just a couple of years ago I would never have ventured onto anything less difficult than a steep blue (red, I think, in Europe?). I tend to concentrate far more on technique on the gentle terrain, and let my unconscious competence take over when it's truly steep. On the most difficult terrain I ski there isn't any opportunity for me to think or concentrate on anything other than my line and the terrain and snow around me.

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Frosty the Snowman, ah! The error of not making use of all terrain! Easy flat slopes are great places to work on arc-to-arc skiing, learning how to keep the skis cleanly on edge so that you don't lose any momentum will help skiers feel the edge, understand the difference between a pure carve and a drifted or skidded turn, and so on. Just standing on your skis and riding them through that kind of terrain is such a waste of a great opportunity to learn and grow as a skier!

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

IMNSHO a lot of people on black slopes think that they are skiing very well because they are doing short radius parallels down the fall line, but their technique is insufficient, so although they may look good, they are not completing their turns, and so have very little control. IMNSHO they should use slightly easier terrain to brush up on their technique.

Totally agree with ssh, I find green runs just as much fun as blacks, really good for long loping carving turns.

After all it is free

hibernia, I'm with ssh. I reckoned I learned far more as a rep skiing blues with chalet guests than anywhere else. Skiing slowly on easy pitches lets you concentrate on improving every movement. It's far easier IMHO to ski faster with solid technique than slowly with less good technique.

BUt I am well acquainted with Frosty the Snowman's Snow Fox. Incredibly cunning camouflage those little blighters have.

They're also attracted to the smell of weissbeir, especially on the flat bit down from the Henustall in Zermatt.

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Having progressed to the good intermediate stage I often find getting down a black run (steep not mogully) less tiring than a good red with the same vertical. As hibernia, points out as gravity does a lot of the work and I am quite comfortable belting along. However, having seen myself on a few videos I have realised my technique on steeps looks fairly awful. Where as I look alright carving nice big arcs on the shallower stuff.

Frosty the Snowman, I suspect your snowfox may be related to the `sea badger`- responsible for excavating large holes in the sand at the beach, which one often steps in while body boarding or surfing.

Could the snowfox also be reponsible for my inability to remain standing in lift queues? On my most recent trip my stack stats were:

on piste 1
off piste to many to count
lift queue 6

And this is waiting for the lift not getting off it!

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Kramer, I find that it helps to have a lure in a chums pack - a small bottle of sloe gin does nicely - and serves many purposes.

Frosty the Snowman, I was always under the impression it was snowSnakes that were responsible, although they do appear to have remarkably similar characteristics to snowFoxes Very Happy

You know it makes sense.

ssh,During a lesson in Jan the Instructor took us on some gentle terrain and told us to bend one knee inwards slightly and press down gently in the front of that boot. We had to do this until we turned uphill and stopped. He eventually got us to link turns together. A few other tweeks and in 15 mins he had us really carving. You could tell who could do it properly by the tracks we left. Good ones literally carved a line in the snow. Basic but a great lesson. The falls I see are on long flats or where folks are having a "rest". The snow fox lurks in wait for the tired and the lazy..............and then he strikes.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

I know exactly what hibernia means, I think. When on a green I find myself idly schussing or drifting lazily and have to make a conscious effort to concentrate and carve a slow arc and not catch an edge. I try to make true knee roll turns skis quite wide apart and ride the sidecut with no additional pressure. On a steeper slope, carving is natural unless very narrow too.

A snowHead

admin, I had presumed that reptiles were not suited to a life below freezing. Perhaps they wear fox fur coats Very Happy

A snowHead

Frosty the Snowman, well done! My suggestion, though, would be to tip one knee out, not in. This gets that leg out of the way, the other leg gets pulled along, and you find yourself carving two clean arcs. If you tip one in, it's possible to leave the other one flat, and not get on both edges (two left edges or two right edges).

slikedges, I would argue that your approach is really more the culprit than is the terrain, though. If you choose to be lazy and idle on any terrain, you will have the experience. Historically, I would do that on even groomed blues. Not any more! Also, FWIW, I don't think that what you're doing on those steeps is likely to be carving as I would define it. The reason I say so is that carving on steeps turns into mach 6 pretty quickly. It is true that it is easier to keep your downhill edge away from the snow on steeper terrain, but a tendancy to catch that edge is a sign of either alignment issue or just lazy edge use (on any terrain).

FWIW, I think that the vast majority of people would be well-served to get their boots balanced so that they do not have alignment issues. Finding a good boot balancing specialist is pretty tough, though, I know.

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

admin, in the US we call them snowSnakes, too, but I prefer snowFoxes. I need to remember that. It'll capture the attention of my guests! Wink

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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

ssh, on a shallow slope I find carving an effort. It's less physical and involves less attentive concentration just to go straight or idly drift. On a steeper slope, you can't do that without being out of control. I find that when carving on a shallow slope, trying to go 50:50 on the weight, I sometimes end up on the wrong ski and catch an edge. I don't think I have alignment issues but am working on an old problem of A framing and not changing edges at the same time.

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slikedges, may I make a suggestion? If it's ok, I'd suggest this: tip just the bottom of your feet when you're on flat terrain. Keep the skis going as straight as you can while you tip them side to side by using your feet (not your knees or other parts of your legs!). Start to tip with the foot on the side toward which you're tipping (left foot if you're tipping left, right if tipping right). Stay on the edge at all times. The key to both A Framing and changing edges at the same time is to change the ski on the side towards which you're tipping (right ski to go right, left to go left). You may even feel as though you are bowlegged as you do this. Don't worry about that... In fact, it can help to exaggerate in just that way. Try it!

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

ssh, thanks, I will. I do try to initiate my carved turns with my downhill (new inside) knee for the very reason that I have a problem with A-framing. If it's going well, it does cure it.

After all it is free

rich, what point are you trying to make? I don't get the "pointless" part, so help me out?

50/50 is a poor goal, IMHO. So is 100/0. I don't focus on the relative amount of pressure on my two skis most of the time, except when I'm playing around with different kinds of edge change (transition) types. I trust the forces to put the weight where it needs to be. On gentle terrain, I would recommend not trying to get all the weight on your outside ski. It doesn't help.

That said, on gentle terrain, tipping the feet back and forth is very educational. BTW, you can do it with one of the two skis off the snow, too, and just tip the skis (yes, both of them) back and forth. In this case, you can continue to tip the ski towards the direction of the tip first (yes, even if it's the one in the air).

So, don't focus on where your pressure is distributed except to maintain your balance. Rather, focus on the amount you tip (and the body positions to compensate for that tipping based on terrain, speed, etc.). Play with this. It can change your skiing dramatically.

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ssh, the only time anyone in reality could ever achieve 50/50 distribution on piste is skis flat pointing straight. Sure play with distribution ski to ski and toe and heel pressure, all to the good but getting hung up on 50/50 distribution is just heading down a dead end.

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Skiing down carving on just one ski whether it's up or downhill is quite tricky.

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rich, I don't think it is pointless, I think on a shallow slope in good snow is very different from steep ice, where I'm still convinced of the outside ski's dominance if your legs are strong enough. I never get to "50:50" in the context of a carved turn and perhaps I shouldn't have used it. I used it as terminology for a concept rather than a mathematical value, which is sloppy of me. What I meant is weighting both skis to a significant extent. Do you believe that this is wrong in all circumstances but powder and slush? Little Angel

Kramer, that outside edge turn is a killer, was trying it a couple of weeks ago. Not pretty but didn't fall over, but I wouldn't call what I was doing carving.

You know it makes sense.

rich, I respectfully disagree about 50/50. When I am doing RR track turns (tipping gently from left edges to right edges), I keep my weight pretty evenly distributed. And doing so is a pretty good exercise for a number of skiing skills. However, focusing on lateral weight distribution usually is a losing proposition, and I think that's really the crux of what you're saying, isn't it?

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

Kramer and rich, I find that the one-foooted carving (and other kinds of skiing) really helps with a bunch of skills (tipping, balance, feeling the sidecut, etc.). I am doing it more and more, and like to play with it on run-outs. I have to be careful, though, since sometimes folks think I'm "showing off" when I'm really just recognizing that I have a lot of skills to improve! Shocked

A snowHead

rich, I find it the same, I can carve on the inside edge, but one footed on the outside edge I skid rather than carve it.

A snowHead

Kramer, do you know why that is? Figuring that out will help your carved turns in all terrain. Wink

Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?

ssh, I think its to with angulation. Its natural to move your hips out over an inside edge, its more difficult/unnatural to do it with the other edge and so harder to actually get on edge. Consequence is the body stays upright, the only way left to turn is to skid or kick the tail out, thats what happens to me anyway.

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well it is so more efortless to do turns, you need to be sharp on the edging skills, an extended pole plant that assists the turn and a " can do " attitude.Planting of the downhill pole to block the movement of your your upper body and to re-set your ski edges to the fall line. Skiing from edge to edge you have up and down motion in short swing turns and your reaction time has to be a lot quicker to avoid mishaps. As I said before gravity is your friend, it gives you the momentum with a lot less requirement of energy than on less steep slopes.You are always leaning forward into the fall line, using your poles to assist the turns, and this creates a rythmical flex and extension with tiny correctings to control the level of speed ( e.g by skiing slightly uphill before the turn ). It works for me and I always enjoy the steeper runs as they enable me to practice the techniques that I have learned and the satisfaction is that when they work you know that you are skiing in control.

Some of these techniques I learned from Martin Heclkeman's excellent series of VHS videos many years ago and just need to play them again to remind me.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

rich, I think you're getting there. So, what body movements can you make--with intension--to overcome that tendancy. Another angle to consider: why does it feel "more difficult/unnatural"? It's really not... Wink

I'm asking these as questions so that everyone will think on this a bit. Honestly, this is a path to higher-level skiing!

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hibernia, I would encourage you not to play those tapes, again. Shocked

While that technique works, the movements you describe are best when you are skiing on skis manufactured in the 80s, not modern skis. All of the changes in ski design have made a number of practical changes in how we move on skis--most of it removing movements that are no longer necessary. I know this from personal experience, having spent the past 3 seasons reducing and eliminating all kinds of movements from my skiing. I used to be a good skier! rolling eyes

Fortunately, with some great coaching, I'm coming back around.

So, what movements do I see in your post that tell me this?

First, we don't use blocking pole plants as you describe them except as an emergency balance move or to aid an emergency turn. Second, we don't "set" edges any more. Third, we don't use up-and-down motion or short swings. Wink

These are likely some reasons that you find steeps easier on you than more gentle terrain: the subtlety of modern skiing is not part of your current practice.

A number of the drills that I mention above will make a big difference for you. There are many more, but I don't want to bore everyone or seem a know-it-all. Well... any more than I already do! Embarassed

Perhaps a thread on the transition from traditional (defined as late 20th century) technique to modern technique? If there's interest, go ahead and start it. I'm thinking about doing a clinic for my guests on this kind of thing.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

ssh, thanks for that and what you say is interesting. The tapes concerned are less than ten years old and apart from some lessons for about two years when I started skiing ten years ago, I have relied on them and practiced the techniques and to me they seem comfortable and effective. OK - I agree things move on over time and am not totally against the idea of taking private ski lessons to just question whether some of the newer ideas you espouse are as effective as the " older " techniques. I have just invested in new skis - Volkl Superstars and am pushing their performance to see how effective they are in all mountain conditions.

After all it is free

ssh, when I'm skiing on one leg, I can't carve a turn when it's the inside ski because the position that I'm in to balance my other leg off the ground means keeping my leg fairly straight, which makes getting the ski on edge difficult if not impossible. I reckon that it would be easier to do if I actually took the other ski off.

Kramer,

I don't know...its quite tricky if you have lost a ski but then its hardly something to practice.....!! Laughing

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ssh, when you only ski for one or two weeks of the year it is difficuly to focus in on the nuances of technique and it was a problem I found last week when testing various skis ( B2s and Volkl Superstars ) to decide which was most suitable. I hear what you say regarding technique and as my old skis are now ten years old perhaps its time tom consign Heckleman's videos to the dusty shelves and see what is newer.

Help!!

Black runs are easier .....

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