 Poster: A snowHead
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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It all depends on the reaction from Moscow to the IOC ruling. If they accept the verdict then maybe you'll see him compete under the OAR banner (Olympic Athletes of Russia). If they take the 'Hard Man' approach and decline, withdrawing all their athletes from the event then he'll probably miss out, , unless he breaks ranks to compete under the neutral Olympic banner and risk being cut-off and ostracised by the entire Russian sports apparatus.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Will be a bit sad not to see the Russians at the winter Olympics doping or no doping they have always been great contenders for medals.
This also throws the whole Olympic Ice Hockey into turmoil. Already NHL players were barred from competing with NHL not allowing them to be released form their contracts to compete this year. They've been competing since 1994. This made the Russians favorite being able to tap into the KHL but they have now threatened to boycott given the doping ban. Which also means they won't release athletes to compete and there are North Americans as well as other Europeans playing in the KHL.
Hopefully things will become clearer as the dust settles from yesterday's decision.
Highly recommend watching:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0349825/
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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State sponsored cheating programme so that Putin&Co could glow in front of the cameras with gold medals? While thousands or russian athletes suffer the consequences of doping, many children affected at local level ... also the bitter feeling of those athletes who do not cheat are are left outside the podium .... and receive their 'recognition' by a post from the IOC. Cheating at this scale - incredible but not surprising unfortunately. The RU state media outcry could be summarised as follows - "them against us", "they are affraid of us". No discussion about whether doping problem exists (no acceptance that it is state run cheating programme), while most of evidence comes from RU whistle-blowers. If anything, RU athletes and society should be angry with their government, but as always "the West" will be at fault 
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Retribution by US for Russia meddling in US election.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@extremerob, was reading about the NHL ban on its players playing in extra-curricular matches! Apparently it's all to do with who is paying $14m insurance for players getting injured...
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| Richard_Sideways wrote: |
| @extremerob, was reading about the NHL ban on its players playing in extra-curricular matches! Apparently it's all to do with who is paying $14m insurance for players getting injured... |
wonder how we do it hear with the Premier League and then players being released to their countries? - lunchtime reading material
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It's political BS only and nothing more then this. State sponsored doping sounds so cool, but what's difference between "state's sponsored doping" and "companies, which are running state, sponsored doping"? Next to that, does Spanish government and their court ordering to destroy all documents from operation Puerto which could link Fuentes codes to real names from world of tennis and football falls under "state sponsored doping"? No?
All this has nothing to do with honor and integrity and god know what all are people from IOC and politics now trying to say, but it's purely politics and money talk. Most of stuff is based on Rodchenkov's testimony, and quite few things just don't match. Based on his testimony it was FSB who was responsible for swapping samples etc, as otherwise it's impossible to do that. IOC's researcher single handy figured out how to open b-sample bottles without visible trace of tempering in 14 days. And FSB, based on Rodchenkov's saying needed several months. Another thing... everyone from weight lifters, 100m sprinters to marathon runners were using same stuff... cognac with steroids. Really? Same doping that works for everyone, from 100m sprinters to marathon runners? This guy must have been super good.
And last issue I have here... I'm following more xc then other thing so I was actually following how they tried to put him down. Guy is living most of time in Switzerland and Germany. 90% of his doping tests are done by agencies other then RUSADA. He never tested positive. His blood tests from Sochi are all negative (and not swapped), yet he's out of Olypics for life because Rodchenkov put him on some list, and because his 2 b-samples from Sochi are tempered. And good part is, they are tempered by people that IOC and WADA accredited. It's not athletes thing what is happening after samples are handed over to WADA/NADA controllers. It should be WADA's and IOC's problem but they lightly shuffled that to athlete as it's their fault one of their own people was messing around.
So yeah it's politic and money only, and it has nothing to do with sport.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@primoz, you point is Russians did not run state doping programme?
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@mooney058, my point is it doesn't really matter how you call doping program. My point is, it's exactly same if support for doping comes from government or from company that runs government. And another point is, that when government steps in and demands destroying document that could damage certain sports because they would reveal doping, we are in exactly same thing as with Russia, except I don't hear anyone talking about forbidding Spain to participate in Olympics or any other events. So main point is, all this has nothing to do with sport or desire for clean sport, but it's pure politics and money thing.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@primoz, the level of risks involved and institutional setup (national doping agencies, secret services involved) equates all doping programmes? Doping is cheating in all cases. It damages those who dope and those who do not. Doping is not unique to Russia. But what unique, as it appears, is the scale and institutions involved in a doping programme. RU laboratories, experts, government and its institutions were involved in a cheating scheme for the political gain (shine of medals and 'national pride') and without any mechanism put in place to fight doping (it appears most of the fighting efforts were at concealing doping, not fighting it). Not familiar with the spanish case, can't comment.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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@mooney058, yeah that's pretty idealistic view. Reality is, like it or not, different. Doping is not really cheating and it doesn't damage those who don't dope. Simply, because there's noone like that in top level sport  I agree it's not healthy, but no top level sport is healthy. Like it or not, doping is part of sport, just as good waxes for skis are part of sport in skiing.
Did you see Icarus, as obviously that's main "proof" of everything? Who was the guy who first wanted to help Fogel in his quest to Haute Route victory? What was his position? He was pretty eager to help until he got scared it would be maybe a bit too too much. So much about institutions from the other side having any sort of integrity.
Again, WADA and IOC themself checked and approved all these people, and now they has nothing to do with all this?
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| primoz wrote: |
@mooney058, yeah that's pretty idealistic view. Reality is, like it or not, different. Doping is not really cheating and it doesn't damage those who don't dope. Simply, because there's noone like that in top level sport I agree it's not healthy, but no top level sport is healthy. Like it or not, doping is part of sport, just as good waxes for skis are part of sport in skiing.
Did you see Icarus, as obviously that's main "proof" of everything? Who was the guy who first wanted to help Fogel in his quest to Haute Route victory? What was his position? He was pretty eager to help until he got scared it would be maybe a bit too too much. So much about institutions from the other side having any sort of integrity.
Again, WADA and IOC themself checked and approved all these people, and now they has nothing to do with all this? |
Can not agree with your view/opinion. A very russian approach that you employ- "but look at the others".
My view is not idealistic. The "reality" you are referring to I can not recognise. Why do you say the IOC and WADA have nothing to do with it? One investigated, the other took a difficult decision. As all organisations both are not perfect and the delay by the IOC to take a decision is a disgrace. I understand lots of efforts expended by all those involved that led to a delayed decision. I still do not understand what you dispute or object to - (a) that doping is not OK; (b) that Russian doping programme does not exist (at national level) or (c) that there is lack of evidence in either (a) or (b) (or both)?
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You know it makes sense.
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@primoz, nope, doping is quite definitely cheating,and it does damage those who don't dope. Clean athletes funding, status in their sport, and their ability to compete is all damaged when others cheat to beat a clean athlete. That attitude is pretty much the entire reason that athletes dope, because they think either everyone is doing it (they aren't) or that it is just a natural advantage that they should be entitled to.
If the IOC found institutionalised doping on the same level from another country, I am confident they would take the same steps. Would there be a bigger uproar if it was the USA, Australia, the UK? Perhaps, because I guess it would seem less likely. Clearly whatever they wanted done for Russia to be able to put clean athletes forward and for the IOC to have any confidence the vast majority of athletes were clean, they haven't done it.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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@mooney058, I'm not saying IOC and WADA have nothing to do with it. I'm saying all this is actually their fault. IOC and WADA are the ones who accredited Sochi lab and Rodchenkov to be the ones that are trusted to handle things correctly. So if you look like this, it's IOC and WADA who swapped samples not Legkov for example. On the end it's Legkov who is punished and IOC and WADA act like they have nothing to do with all this. Yes, I agree Bach wasn't in lab swapping samples, yet he, as president of IOC was the one responsible for Rodchenkov being there on first place. If IOC and WADA would do their job beforehand, there would be no sample swapping, as lab and their personnel would be acting by the book.
Now if you recognize or don't recognize reality I have been talking about is not really my problem. I have spend basically all my life in top level sport, so I know something about things that you don't see possible when following sport through media. But it's fine. Everyone can have their imagination what is happening there.
And last, what I dispute? Yeah as far as I'm concerned doping is ok. It essential part of top level sport. Always was always will be, regardless of nationality. There's simply noone clean on top. In some sports that top 10 in others it's top 100. But noone winning World cup race is clean. Yeah they didn't test positive, but that doesn't mean a thing. If you believe I'm wrong, it's fine with me, but as I wrote, I have been inside of these things long enough. We will never really know if Russian "state sponsored doping program" really existed or it's Rodchenkov thing and his agenda. Maybe there was, maybe there wasn't, but it's really irrelevant, as it's just a name for doping program, and as I wrote before, it really doesn't matter if behind it are multinational companies or certain government. Point is, doping is, and anti doping labs are not there to fight it but to help it cover it. In Russia, in UK or in USA.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@primoz, accreditation is not a 100% guarantee from meddling by secret services etc. Public authorities are there to protect public interest and order. In this case public institutions of one particular country were acting against the IOC and WADA ...
As to your experience - good for you. But why do you have to assume my “imagination” is inspired by media sources?
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@primoz, doping is a form of cheating and there's not much point in taking part if your opponents cheat.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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Some more positive news, as Vladimir Putin has announced there will not be a boycott on Russian athletes taking part under the terms put forward by the IOC -
| Quote: |
| We will not be announcing any kind of blockade. We will not prevent our Olympic athletes from taking part if anyone wants to take part in a personal capacity |
...although with many in the Russian media calling for a self-imposed ban on participation and even broadcast of the upcoming Olympics, we may not see many take the option to compete.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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There's actually a significant part of the Russian public that got quite mad, pointing the blatant examples of doping from the USA, Canada and other countries... but it's just that, the public getting mad. The sportsmen will do sports in other local or international events, the government won't give a damn (and will still earn the money from the 2018 football cup).
The problem for the West is that it actually makes the Russians distrust Western countries even more, which means more support for Putin, interventionist policies, and trying to pee in the US's corn flakes every time it's possible.
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FAQ
