 Poster: A snowHead
|
Hi,
I'm signing up to do BASI Level 1 with ICE in Val d'isere and am interested in hearing other people's experiences of the course (whether with ICE or another provider).
I've heard mixed reports - some say its boring and doesn't actually involve much performance skiing? (I'd be disappointed if it's just learning how to snowplough properly and teach entry level skiers?)
I'm 34 and have been skiing since I was 6, so have clocked up over 2 years on snow.
I predominantly want to do the course to get technically better and progress to Level 2 but, as a Val d'isere veteran, am wary that Val d'isere is an expensive trip (and lift pass) to hang around on some tame blues and greens for 5 days.
Any input or experiences would be gratefully received!
Thanks
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
It is quite boring if you don’t want to learn how to snowplough/demo properly, teach entry level etc but that’s what it’s for - it’s a trainee qualification, that only allows you to teach on dry slope etc
I don’t think it’ll do much for your technical skills to be honest, sorry to be blunt but it is what it is. I hope you enjoy it anyway
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
|
@DBSki, You can do Level 1 at an indoor slope if you just want the cheapest route to Level 2.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
@moseyp, - Thanks for the additional info. Perhaps not the best thing to be doing in Val then...
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
|
@rjs, - Thanks, I appreciate that. I'm thinking of doing it in Val because I'll be there anyway and my girlfriend (novice skier) will be in ski school all week. Thought the Level 1 would be a good thing to do with my time, but also want to make sure I ski (a bit) and have fun too!
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
I’d be inclined to do it at home too, if that’s an option for you. If you want to work on your technical in Val d’ you’d be better finding some days of clinic type teaching or adult race training. There’s also a brilliant English guided group for about £60 or €60 a morning/afternoon if you have good snow - Alpine Experience. The best thing about Val d’Isere has gotta be the off piste
http://www.alpineexperience.com
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
I did it in Morzine, but I'm a relatively late starter and was short on mountain time so I think that worked well for me. I think for someone with bags of resort time under their belt a fridge is probably a better idea. Reports vary of the split between performance skiing and teaching and I imagine that it's very dependent on the relative strengths and weaknesses of the group. Be aware that the L1 courses in resorts tend to be parts of 'gap year' programmes so there tend to be a lot of teenagers on them - you might be the old codger of the group...
My course seemed heavy on the teaching element as the majority of the group were strong skiiers. I was the exception, handling the teaching elements fairly easily but wishing there had been more time for performance. I've heard different from people who have done it indoors, and wonder if it is related to a different demographic or just more time on drills as opposed to moving around the ski area. For me I still think I made the right choice, but then I wanted to see if I enjoyed teaching (I did!) if you mainly want to improve your skiing maybe not right for you.
Worth noting also that there are weekend / evening L1 options from IASI in UK (certainly at Hemel).
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@Tubaski, - Thanks, that's useful and also strangely consistent with some other reports I've had. It seems that some people suggest that there's at least an equal split between performance and teaching, while others (like @moseyp) have experience of it being a predominantly teaching experience. Very confusing to know what to do.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
@DBSki,
Hi there, and welcome.
I did my Level 1 with ICE 2 years ago. I had a great time, and would thoroughly recommend it. You say you want to get technically better, and IMO, perfecting the snow plough and how to teach it will help no end! You will need to be very good at it for level 2 as well.
You will also spend a lot of time doing performance longs and shorts. Your examiner will be able to push you so that you make changes and improve as the week goes on. It is important that you show you are able to make changes! This could be to get you from just below level 1 standard up to the level, or maybe you will already comfortably above that level, in which case you will be pushed to improve further. Either way, if you are able to make changes you will get better.
For me personally, learning how to teach, improves my own performance, no matter how basic the skill is perceived.
Also worth noting is that the course involves evening lectures. You will be in the classroom everyday for at least an hour, which might not work so well for your trip with your girlfriend? You are expected to do some study before the next day as well, plus preparation time for your mock lessons. It is an exhausting week.
We had 10 on our course, and 6 passed. It was a real mixture of people in a similar position to you, seasonnaires, people relatively new to skiing, and an ex US Ski Instructor.
Feel free to message me if you have any more questions about the course and ICE.
Jon
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@jonkgray78 - Thanks for the detailed response, it's good to hear from someone who has done the course with ICE.
So long as there is a decent amount of performance longs and shorts, I think I'll be happy with that. I get that it's a teaching qualification, it just seems a bit pointless to go to a globally recognised mountain range and not ski it because of the teaching element!
Re: Evening lectures, I has already asked about that and was told that the "off snow element" should be finished by 5.00pm/5.30pm each day - was that your experience?
Interesting to hear that there was a fail rate in your class - I think that's the first I've heard of anyone failing the L1! Most people seem to suggest that it's a formality if you join the course and listen/improve with the real challenges starting at L2.
I'm assuming that given your last sentence, you found a range of mixed ages on the course - i.e. not just teenagers on a gap year?
Thanks again for the response.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
| Quote: |
Worth noting also that there are weekend / evening L1 options from IASI in UK (certainly at Hemel).
|
You can’t do a BASI 2 with an IASI 1 though, so I’d avoid it. They don’t convert the qualification, bizarrely so you have to repeat the L1 with BASI to be eligible for L2
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| Quote: |
some people suggest that there's at least an equal split between performance and teaching, while others (like @moseyp) have experience of it being a predominantly teaching experience
|
Mine wasn’t a predominantly teaching experience, it may have been an even split but the technical did nothing for my skiing. As far as I remember I just had to demonstrate each strand (a few turns) to confirm the standard and that was it. There was no working on my technical skills or making changes to my skiing. I spent more time working on my demos and trying to get off my edges
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@DBSki, No problem at all.
I'm not an expert on BASI courses, but I'm pretty sure around 70% pass is about the norm for Level 1? Someone may know better then me. There was no part of the course the felt like a formality. With hindsight a couple of the better skiers were always going to pass, while some had to make changes to pass, and it was very clear to see where those improvements were. As it happened, the people who didn't pass all of the course (we all passed the teaching element, 1 person after a re test) were the people who had been recreational skiing all their lives for many years. I think trying to unlearn bad habits is very difficult.
I can't seem to get on the ICE website right now, but you should be able to figure out if your Level 1 coincides with a GAP course's. Mine was just a stand alone course, so we had a 3 under 30, 4 of us between 30-40, and 3 40-50. So a pretty even spread. We did share the classroom with the GAP course who were doing their level 2 at the time, and it was a much younger mix.
My experience was that we spent quite a bit of time on performance Longs and shorts. This will mean doing laps on certain lifts, but thats a good way to do it. You won't feel you've explored the area much though!
5-5.30pm seems about right, if anything a little late. If you know La Daille well, the lectures are in the massive block by the piste. Luckily I was renting an apartment there, so I would dump my kit and come down, for the others it would be the bus into town after.
Hth
Jon
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
@moseyp, - Thanks, and apologies, I misunderstood your comments in that case. Although, it doesn't sound like your L1 was a very inspiring experience! Do you mind me asking who and where you did it? There does seem to be some significant differences of experience, where people have done it with different providers.
@jonkgray78, - Thanks again for the information, very helpful indeed given that you attended the same course! Hopefully, I won't be one of those recreational skiers who can't get out of bad habits! I get the need to do "laps" on certain lifts & that sounds fine to me - it's an efficient way to build up new habits in a shorter period of time! I was just concerned that I'd be spending a lot of the week on a nursery slope somewhere learning teaching theory. I have skied in Val a lot, so not that concerned about exploring - just keen to get the most out of the week in terms of experiences, fun and improvement.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
@DBSki,
Its a tough balance to get, especially as you'll have your girlfriend with you, but I reckon its a good choice. Obviously you will be sacrificing some elements of your usual ski trip, but I definitely enjoyed it. While we did use the nursery slope, I don't remember feeling like it was excessive, of for a lot of the week. I hope I am remembering that right haha.
Are you planning on doing the one at the beginning of Feb? I've managed to look at their website now. If so thats the same one I did.
Jon
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
@jonkgray78, - Yes, it's the one at the beginning of Feb. The girlfriend will be in ski school all day, so I don't think it'll be too much of a problem - she's a novice and is keen to commit to a full week of ski school to accelerate her learning curve. Come the evening no doubt I'll be getting back to find her in the hotel hot tub with a G&T! As a couple, we're not big on the late night apres ski these days, so at the end of the skiing day it should be a fairly normal dinner and few drinks before a sensible bed time ready for the next day on the white stuff.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
ICE are great, some of the best trainers in the business.
I've passed my BASI L2 Snowboard with them.
As a relatively new skier I Failed a L1 Ski with them on a course in Jan 2015, they gave me a great action plan and I passed my L1 ski with BASS in Morzine 3 x months later thanks to a good action plan and lots of practice.
If you just want to ski lots and do performance stuff then maybe look at Snoworks in Tignes.
If you Deffo don't ever want to teach then again, maybe do a course with Snoworks.
L1 will however improve your skiing whatever standard you are as believe it or not you will have bad habits that are probably engrained if you have skied for many years.
Previously, in a dome It took a bit of effort during my L1 Snowboard to pass my L1 and I'd probably had 50+ weeks snowboard experience at the time. (breaking bad habits).
I've done BASI courses with ex Junior Team GB ski racers and believe it, even they found some parts of it difficult. i.e. to demo 'good' snow ploughs and basic skidded turns. (found it hard to get off their edges).
I've really enjoyed the BASI courses, If it's a with good trainer (Which the ICE guys are) they will encourage and enable everyone to improve throughout the week and get as much as they can during the course no matter what standard each individual candidate is.
Yep L1 ski does involve some evening lectures and some practice teaching but I found the teaching practice transferable to real world stuff and the video analysis of my own skiing and boarding very valuable.
Mountain masters are another Val option just for ski 'fun' courses.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
The Trainer has to deal with the conditions and the standard of the people on the course.
When I did the ski L1 in Val it was -20C so we did not stand around too much.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
@DBSki, if you want to get technically better (which is a great aim to have when doing the L1), I'd suggest having a more open mind to BASI's Central Theme progression rather than seeing its as something to endure before you get to the "real skiing". You can learn a great deal about the fundamentals of skiing from understanding the difference between a good plough or plough parallel turn and simply whacking your skis in to a big, edgy snowplough. Timing, movements, balance all have to be executed with a high level of precision to perform a good snowplough, all of which are fundamentals in whatever skiing you do. Developing those skills in a snowplough is equally valid as developing those sills doing shorts on an icy red. Weaknesses in your performance skiing will almost certainly show up in your Central Theme work, so addressing those weaknesses in CT is one way of improving your technique.
I did my L1 with ICE several years ago. They are very experienced Trainers and will seek to push all aspects of your skiing as far as they can, as well as satisfying the L1 requirements.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
@rob@rar,
Thanks for the input, your post summarises exactly what I was hoping to get from the course, so that's very reassuring from my perspective!
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| DBSki wrote: |
@rob@rar,
Thanks for the input, your post summarises exactly what I was hoping to get from the course, so that's very reassuring from my perspective! |
I'm sure you'll have a great week. Frustrating at times, challenging, but probably exhilarating as well, and typically lots of camaraderie with your fellow candidates. I'm still friends with a couple of the people I did my L1 with eight years ago.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
My lad did it with ICE in Val last Easter. He's a park rat so very different for him, but it has improved his skiing no end, and he did pass although a few didn't. He didn't really read the course manual in advance, ( unwise) so had a lot of " homework" to catch up on each night. Skiing was on blues and greens mainly, but they did spend a lot of times on performance short and longs.
His last day after the course was spent entirely in the park though, so I never got to see his lovely new skiing
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
| Quote: |
Bizarrely, while you can't do BASI 2 after IASI 1, they've got this innovative thing called IASI 2 which you can do after you've done IASI 1!
Interestingly they also have IASI 3 and IASI 4 which makes it totally complementary to BASI -
|
Why is this bizarre?
@Ray Zorro, I did IASI L1 a few years ago, planning to do my L2 a few months later when I had completed the hours. I waited about three years and no course was scheduled. When they did schedule a course one year it was only in Hintertux in summer or autumn and out of the question for me.
By contrast, as far as I can remember, BASI had a L2 running every month (maybe more than one?) in so many different places there was even one in the resort I live in.
I know people that waited years for IASI L3 modules, and then had to be able and ready to do whatever course occasionally came up at the time and venue, or risk having to wait years again to get anything completed.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| moseyp wrote: |
It is quite boring if you don’t want to learn how to snowplough/demo properly, teach entry level etc but that’s what it’s for - it’s a trainee qualification, that only allows you to teach on dry slope etc
I don’t think it’ll do much for your technical skills to be honest, sorry to be blunt but it is what it is. I hope you enjoy it anyway |
I disagree 100%, it will improve your technical skills no end. If you can't do a slow plough parallel, you can't do performance shorts!
You should get as much skiing done on performance longs and shorts as you do on the central theme.
|
|
|
|
|
|
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
|
@DBSki, I didn’t do it with a provider (mine was IASI on dry slope, exact same course as the BASI L1) and done directly with the company. I don’t think it’s anything to do with the provider or resort but the level that you’re at. Some of the trainees on my course did spend a lot of time working on their tech but they were weaker skiers. I spent most of my time practising getting flatter skis in the snow plough.
It’s hard to know what you’ll be doing all week without knowing what your strengths/weaknesses are. For me personally, I would definitely rather spend a week on snow working on my own skiing (someone mentioned snoworks above?) or skiing powder and doing the L1 at home in a snow dome or dry slope. But I’m sure you’ll still enjoy it, and you (presumably) go home with a licence to start teaching on dry slope/dome. Will you get any skiing at the start or end of the day with the course?
|
|
|
|
|
|
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
|
| Quote: |
I disagree 100%, it will improve your technical skills no end. If you can't do a slow plough parallel, you can't do performance shorts!
|
If you can’t do a snow plough parallel, you aren’t going to be on a L1 course.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| moseyp wrote: |
| Quote: |
some people suggest that there's at least an equal split between performance and teaching, while others (like @moseyp) have experience of it being a predominantly teaching experience
|
Mine wasn’t a predominantly teaching experience, it may have been an even split but the technical did nothing for my skiing. As far as I remember I just had to demonstrate each strand (a few turns) to confirm the standard and that was it. There was no working on my technical skills or making changes to my skiing. I spent more time working on my demos and trying to get off my edges |
Who did you do your L1 with and when? That sounds very different to the L1 I did, the L1 my wife did and also what I saw of the L1 course when I was out doing L2 with ICE in Val D'Isere!
OP: I think 4 failed my L1 out of 10 and a similiar ratio on the course my wife did a few years later. I "thought" I was a good skier until I did my L1......
|
|
|
|
|
|
You know it makes sense.
|
|
@kitenski, with IASI, first in about 2006 or so, and again in 2013 I think. And no, you and your wife were not on the same course (as far as I can remember although I don’t remember the first course I did I was very young
|
|
|
|
|
|
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
|
| moseyp wrote: |
| Quote: |
I disagree 100%, it will improve your technical skills no end. If you can't do a slow plough parallel, you can't do performance shorts!
|
If you can’t do a snow plough parallel, you aren’t going to be on a L1 course. |
Hence why lots fail as they are "great" (in their own mind) skiers with fundamental flaws. I count myself as one of them, fortunately I made the necessary changes during my week to pass. Some of those flaws were more apparent during my L2 which caused me to fail.
I felt if I'd done my L1 in the mountains it would have helped me compared to doing it at XScape as some of those flaws could well have been exposed....
Your IASI L1 on a dry ski slope sounds very different to the BASI L1
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster: A snowHead
|
|
@kitenski, I think what you’re talking about is the level of the skier, which I referenced in another post above. Weak skiers are obviously going to spend more time on technical and stronger skiers will not. I’ve done courses in the Irish, British & Canadian system and it’s the same in all. Without knowing the level of skier that the OP is, how can you say whether or not he’ll be challenged? I certainly wasn’t - however I struggled with the teaching element (and failed it when I first did L1 as a teen) and that was my challenge
|
|
|
|
|
|
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
|
|
@moseyp. Everyone else posting on here has found it challenging. A good trainer should be able to push every student in the class, whether that's in the performance threads or the central theme, especially with the decent terrain around Val and knowing what I know about ICE. Whilst I don't know the level of the OP I'd hazard a guess as a holiday skier he/she hasn't spent any time trying to perfect snow ploughs on a beginner slope, never mind getting their weighting correctly to smoothly demo a plough parallel turn at a slow speed.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
|
| Quote: |
I've heard mixed reports - some say its boring and doesn't actually involve much performance skiing? (I'd be disappointed if it's just learning how to snowplough properly and teach entry level skiers?)
|
The OP themself has said that they’ve heard mixed reports as above, and has said they’d be “disappointed if it’s just learning to snowplough properly and teach entry level skiers”
This is a pretty accurate assessment on both counts - I would say half the trainees on my courses found they were not pushed technically at their level, and the L1 is of course a qualification aimed at teaching entry level skiers - it’s the level 1.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
|
@moseyp, there are usually about half a dozen IASI L2 courses a year, not as many as BASI I grant you, but then the demand isn't as great as it's a much smaller organisation.
No idea about IASI L3 modules as that will never be on my radar.
|
|
|
|
|
|
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
|
You can look at their course calendar here @Ray Zorro, http://www.iasisnowsports.com/course-calendar
There is one IASI organised L2 course for 2017 & 2018 and that was in Hintertux last week, so looks like not much has changed since 2014/15/16
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
|
@moseyp, ??? from that same link
There are also IASI L2 courses with LCP's starting on
21/01/18 in Tonale
22/01/18 in Engelberg
04/02/18 in Zermatt
04/03/18 in Verbier
05/03/18 in Baquria-Beret
I also expect that there will be more courses added in April like there were last year.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@Ray Zorro, they are all external providers that you’ve listed. When I was trying to do a L2 I emailed about four, the ones that were doing them that year. None would let me join unless I was on their programme. I can’t remember exact prices or duration but I know one was about €6,000 and eleven weeks. To do a L2, which normally takes about five or six days and costs about €500.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
@DBSki, Did mine a couple of years ago with BASS in Morzine at the age of 44. Thoroughly enjoyed it and going back for L2 in March. I had about 16 weeks under my legs when I started, and had to work hard to get both the performance elements and the central theme bits right.
I was surprised at just how much hard work it was to be honest - I was half expecting it to be an exercise in taking your money to get you on the instructor path so you'd come back and spend more - absolutely not the case: Only five out of the ten of us passed - and iirc that was all on the performance side - everybody passed the teaching bit.
I love the focus and awareness it's given me when I'm out skiing for fun now. And on top of that I teach part time at our local dry slope now, so it gives me a few quid to go into the skiing fund - and much to my surprise, I've found I really enjoy teaching! Even teaching groups of 14 ten year olds!
Others have suggested doing it in a dome, but if you can afford to - why not spend time in the mountains. There's so much to learn and to see, and the variety of terrain has got to make things more interesting.
|
|
|
|
|
|
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
|
|
|
|
|
|
@Ray Zorro, Prime only joined IASI this year.
| Quote: |
As far as I can see anyone can join in any of those L2 training and assessment weeks
|
I can’t confirm or deny this but it was not the case a few years ago, they did not allow anyone to just jump onto the courses for the assessment.
The point that I’m making is that if you have the option to enter BASI, then you will always have a lot of options going forward which makes things much easier. Someone could easily do their IASI L1 thinking they could convert over to BASI for the L2, or not realise that it’s not as big an organisation with as many courses, and then get stuck having to repeat the L1 with BASI to make the switch.
I wish I’d realised that before I did it
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
FAQ
As far as I can see anyone can join in any of those L2 training and assessment weeks.
