 Poster: A snowHead
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Hi All,
Need some advice. 18 year old son is a very keen skier and really quite good. After our last ski trip, his instructor said he skied well enough to consider being an instructor. He’s now got his heart set on it.
Has anyone here gone down this route?
Where did you do your training?
Can you make a living once you qualify?
What are the employment prospects when you qualify?
I know that it costs about £8K - is there anyway of offsetting the cost or earning whilst you train?
Any advice, recommendations or top tips greatly appreciated please!
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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Lots of advice in the Bend Ze Knees section here.
A few quick caveats -
You can call yourself an instructor if you’ve got the entry level qualification, but that’s not the same as building a long term career in snowsports teaching.
£8k seems to be the going rate for a BASI L1 & L2 GAP course. This is;
A) more money than you need to spend to get to L2 qual (there are other routes too)
B) not nearly enough of a qualification to make much of a living from.
Lots of people do a bit of instructing as a hobby alongside having “a proper job”.
Realistically to be a full time instructor you need to be aiming to get L3 or even L4 quals. This is much harder, much lengthier and much more expensive! But there are ways to do it.
Do you live anywhere near a snowdome or dry slope in the UK? One good way to start would be to do the standalone L1 course in the uk and then spend a bit of time teaching locally. This will give your son a good idea of whether ski instructing will suit him before he commits to the higher levels.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@Scarymamma, what @Maireadoconnor said. Gap courses are an expensive way of doing it and better to find out if he actually enjoys teaching first. It's also worth considering an alternative/additional career - ski instructing in the mountains is seasonal, so for income year round you need another trade. Most instructors have other jobs the other 8 months of the year.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
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Most ski instructors, like sailing instructors, do it for love, not money.
| Quote: |
One good way to start would be to do the standalone L1 course in the uk and then spend a bit of time teaching locally. This will give your son a good idea of whether ski instructing will suit him before he commits to the higher levels.
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This is sound advice from somebody who really knows what she is talking about!!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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Would echo all of this, I started on this path and reverted to a ‘proper’ career however if you commit to making it your career and go L3/4 then you could make a living by doing N/S hemisphere winters.
Being a good skier and enjoying being an instructor are not the same thing-do the L1 and shadow hours and use that to gauge if it’s something he wants to do.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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| Quote: |
Being a good skier and enjoying being an instructor are not the same thing
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Another parallel with sailing instructing. Many very good young dinghy sailors become RYA Dinghy Instructors. It gives them the chance of nice summer jobs in the Greek Islands etc. However, for lads who would prefer to be tweaking their rigging tension and racing round the buoys it can be very frustrating to spend hours with slow, scared, adult beginners or kids who don't listen, in big, slow, boring, dinghies! Getting paid the minimum wage (or less, to judge by recent threads...) for teaching an apprehensive 16 stone, 45 year old, beginner to snowplough is not terribly glamorous.
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Would echo all of this, I started on this path and reverted to a ‘proper’ career however if you commit to making it your career and go L3/4 then you could make a living by doing N/S hemisphere winters.
Being a good skier and enjoying being an instructor are not the same thing-do the L1 and shadow hours and use that to gauge if it’s something he wants to do.
EDIT: actually as a postscript, I was so fed up with the whole thing I didn’t actually ski for 9 years, then did 2 days then didn’t ski again for 7 years. Back into it now and about to resist my L1/2 and start the process for my retirement career 🤣
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Not glamorous, but it can be fun! But it’s not for everyone. Better to spend £550 (?) on the L1 in a dome finding that out rather than spending £8k on a gap course, in my opinion.
Mind you, if I had a spare winter and £10k burning a hole in my pocket I’m sure I’d have an absolutely amazing time on a gap course.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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There are some excellent instructors on Snowheads, maybe they could advise how they got into it and the less obvious pros and cons?
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| Quote: |
There are some excellent instructors on Snowheads
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Indeed there are - @Maireadoconnor is one of them!
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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My Daughter is an L2 SB instructor and L1 ski. The L1 ski gives her considerably more work teaching toddlers.
For most of the reasons stated above, instructing is not as glamorous as often perceived.
The biggest adjustment she found being, that although you're on a mountain surrounded by beautiful scenery, your time is rarely your's to enjoy it or to ski/board for yourself.
My Daughter works a seven day week at this time of year, she earns well, but that's not why she chose the career.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Didn't think you could teach on a mountain with only L1, or does the snowboard qualification override that?
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@pam w, I suspected as much
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You know it makes sense.
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As above, save £8000, do the L1 indoors for £500 and then get a bit of experience to see if he actually enjoys the instructing...
My first winters teaching were in Scotland which is a good test of whether you enjoy the job or not... just be prepared to live cheaply for a winter or two!
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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If you’d seen the faces of the ESF guys coming down from Brevent as we went up around 12:00 ...
Kite surfing, now there’s a happy sport 
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Poster: A snowHead
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@under a new name, 
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@adithorp, first big day of Paris weeks, rain/sleet, busy, place full of muppets, a whole years misery written into one day.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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| endoman wrote: |
| Didn't think you could teach on a mountain with only L1, or does the snowboard qualification override that? |
Teaching in Kinderland possibly. A lot depends on the ski school and which country.
I'd echo the teaching experience first, instructing isn't for everybody, and not everybody is cut out to be an instructor. Also depends on where you want to work, I wanted to work in Austria, so I went through the Austrian system (I'm an Anwaerter, although considering switching to BASI even though that would mean I then have to pay to get the BASI qualification recognised here in Tirol).
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| pam w wrote: |
| Quote: |
There are some excellent instructors on Snowheads
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Indeed there are - @Maireadoconnor is one of them! |
That’s pushing it! But thank you 😊
I’m certainly proof you don’t need a GAP course and £8k to get to L2. I’m also proof that everything’s a lot easier if you have another job to subsidise the skiing. Although I’m not teaching this year cos I’m working too hard in the other job.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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| Sitter wrote: |
| I then have to pay to get the BASI qualification recognised here in Tirol). |
She teaches in Verbier.
I ski in the Italian Sudtirol area, I know that to convert BASI to Italian qualified would require a fair bit of jumping through hoops, one being the ability to speak fluent Italian.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Also, when my Daughter first qualified, she had a devil's own job finding work as a newly qualified, zero experience instructor. She eventually found work in Verbier and has been there ever since.
From memory, only 2 or 3 of her instructor course group of say 12 actually secured a job after passing.
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| Scarymamma wrote: |
| 18 year old son is a very keen skier |
That needs to be matched, at least, with a keenness to help people learn to ski. Without that it could quickly turn in to a frustrating experience.
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Thought id put my tuppence in and reading some of the comments above too:
Bullet points replies to a few things:
| Scarymamma wrote: |
18 year old son is a very keen skier
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OK he might be keen but you must remember that teaching skiing is exactly that 'teaching' it has nothing to do with skiing for himself. I always say to potential student instructors ... go and shadow (or if you have your L1 for example then actually do it) a series of beginner and intermediate lessons.... after doing that for 50/100/200 hours or whatever then IF you dont have a BUZZ for doing just that - teaching the low level lessons then the job is not for you. There are plenty of keen plane spotters out there - could they be pilots - possibly / possibly not - the reality of the job might not match the dream!
| Scarymamma wrote: |
and really quite good.
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Fair enough - but get someone to actually say 'yes' you are likely to pass or not. The problem is 'good' skiing is not necessary obvious - it is the ability to make controlled (speed and line) rounded turns on all terrain - that really is the definition of good skiing and what will lead to a pass or not in the exams.... of course that is just the tip of the iceberg!
| Scarymamma wrote: |
After our last ski trip, his instructor said he skied well enough to consider being an instructor. He’s now got his heart set on it.
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This is a great sign and if his heart is set on it then fantastic signs
| Scarymamma wrote: |
Where did you do your training?
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All over the place....
My 'route' into it in a nutshell.... for me the thought of becoming a ski instructor was something I spent my WHOLE (and I mean my whole) childhood dreaming about. I dedicated all my spare time when I was in late teens going through the hoops and worked on a dry slope part time for 3 years whilst having a full time job in London to see if I like the teaching aspect of the job... I did and threw even more time, money and resources at it all the time whilst being up my experience and jumping through the hoops. Please note that gap style courses are not necessary to get the qualifications - you can just do the exams and go that way.
| Scarymamma wrote: |
Can you make a living once you qualify?
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Depends whether you want to be a millionaire or not and where you want to teach.... ultimately the answer is yes but expect many many years of training, exams, stress and having the passion and will power to get there. I have ultimately married another instructor, taken out mortgages and settled here in Val d'Isere and started a family... we live for the mountains and passing on the passion of snowsports to the next generation... I still get a buzz from teaching a 3 year old or taking people heli skiing (but I waited nearly 15 seasons before I took my first heli trip with paying clients!)
| Scarymamma wrote: |
What are the employment prospects when you qualify?
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There is HUGE demand but at the lower levels of qualifications it is very hard to make anything financially out of it if I'm being honest (you will need to get some experience too some ski school demand too).... but there are loads of jobs about - but some people ONLY want to go to the glamorous places which means completion for jobs is harder. The higher your qualification level the more in demand you will be..... put it another way if you are L4 and female then ski schools will probably fight over you (well sort of) {there are fewer female instructors about in general!}
| Scarymamma wrote: |
Any advice, recommendations or top tips greatly appreciated please! |
My honest advice is this - just like the TV advert goes - "those who can, teach"... I ask students when I hear this sort of thing - "why do you want to be a ski instructor" and if the answer is anything other than 'to teach others to get better / enjoy the mountains' then the 'career' will never become one - it might be a hobby (albeit a fun one and worth doing) but might not get much further than that!
However ski teaching is a career if you want it to be! I would estimate that within my ski school between 16 of us here in Val d'Isere we have about 300 winters worth of teaching experience which is something like 150,000 hours of teaching on the mountain between us - I should think we have seen it all more or less!... I worked in New Zealand years ago and there was a husband and wife team that had 200 seasons teaching experience BETWEEN them... yes they were in their early 70's and have been doing back to back winters for 50 years nearly each of them!
Anyway PM me if you have more questions!
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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@Steve Angus, wow.
Inspirational.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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@Scarymamma, just to add to the advice above, do the BASI L1 indoors, that will include 35 hours of shadowing and also feedback/hints on what to improve for L2. There is no need to spend 8k on a GAP course IMHO, so focused training (if needed) between L1 and L2 and then a 2 week L2 course will be considerably less than 8k which he can put towards the serious amount of training needed for L3/L4, Eurotest etc etc if he goes whole hearted into it.
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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My Stepson is now 22. He was lucky enough to go to NZ after his A levels and did his BASI L1 and 2 in Treble cone. Yes...it was a “ gap “ course.
Armed with those quals, he did his first season teaching in Hakuba, Japan. It seems relatively easy to get work there with a lowly qualification -a couple of his fellow instructors only had a level one type quals. Since then he has worked two northerm hemisphere seasons in the USA, 3 back in NZ and one in Zermatt and is competing in the Freeride WT qualifiers. His passions are probably freeride and filmmaking. He has a couple of sponsors and produces content for them as well as his own stuff, and in NZ last winter worked more as a freeride coach than a bog standard instructor. He is working on getting his level 3...has passed tech.
This winter he and his girlfriend have taken a break from instructing and are on a skiing road trip in the USA and Canada. He doesn’t see instructing as a long term thing, or maybe it’ll just be one string to his bow. He’s not rich, but so far is having some amazing adventures, getting a good name for himself both as an instructor, and filmmaker. Who knows where it will lead.
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That sounds inspirational too, @Perty. 
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You know it makes sense.
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@Scarymamma, As lot's of others have said -- if you are near a snowdome or dryslope your son can make a good start there. UKSnowsports L1 is cheaper to do than BASI and makes a good start.
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Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
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Inspirational stories do suggest to me that if you aren't an alpine native with a "natural" summer occupation and instructing fills otherwise empty winters, it really is a vocational occupation.
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Poster: A snowHead
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@Scarymamma, I think others have summed it up pretty well, but thought I'd chip in as a lowly BASI L1...
I'm 46, working full time in IT, with a family, so my situation is different from your son's, but
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a very keen skier and really quite good. After our last ski trip, his instructor said he skied well enough to consider being an instructor. He’s now got his heart set on it.
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rang true for me a couple of years ago, so I went off to Morzine for a week to do my Level 1. Turns out the "really quite good" bit wasn't quite as good as I'd thought, so had to work really hard to make changes to my skiing that the trainer wanted to see, but I passed the course (only half of us did), and set about doing my shadowing hours at our local dry slope.
I had no idea really whether I'd actually enjoy teaching or not, but fortunately, it turns out I *love* teaching people to ski. Adults, kids, school groups, individuals - all of it.
I'm off to Morzine again to do my Level 2 this March, having clocked up hundreds of part time hours on the dry slope and hijacked our family holidays, both winter and summer (on the glacier at Les 2 Alpes), to get some training in.
It'll cost me a lot less than 8K, and the money I earn on the dry slope all goes in the ski fund, so offsets some of the cost. Whether it's enough to get me through L2; only time will tell.
I wish your son every success if he decides to go for it.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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@under a new name, the most sensible advice I have seen was on Ross Hewitt's instagram. He argued that the key to successful seasons is getting the summer earning right on a consistent basis.
He suggested a series of skills that could be used to generate quite a lot of money in a short time period. Physio/sports massage and working at height featured fairly prominently.
The former can also be done from resort: it won't surprise that some instructors use a massage therapist to keep themselves injury free during the season.
He is right from a ski bum perspective: the key thing is the summer career. Actually being in the mountains can be quite cheap. But you still have to earn the cash in seven months while subsisting in the UK. I imagine this maps across to low level instructing pretty well.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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My son signed-up for a week's group advanced instruction and no one else turned up, so he had a 1:1 instruction for a week. His instructor said it could count towards his qualification if he decided to go on and do that. Because we have an Alpine apartment, my son asked whether we'd consider letting him use it for a season so he could qualify. Cost was at least £10K for instruction, and then obviously subsistence, season skipass and accommodation. The recommendation was that the best way - as you might think - is to do it full-time (as opposed to dovetailing training with another job). Ideally, you'd change hemispheres to do a continuous year of snow (which would cost even more, obviously). In the end, not surprisingly, he decided it just wasn't worth the cost end effort. He's now a qualified patent attorney, which I think probably nets him a lot more income than as a qualified ski instructor.
However, I'd have to say that as an alternative to a Gap Year, a year spent getting qualifications as an instructor might be more rewarding both in terms of life experience and qualifications.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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| Quote: |
He's now a qualified patent attorney, which I think probably nets him a lot more income than as a qualified ski instructor.
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Good for him. That probably allows at least the funds to do the sort of skiing he wants to do rather than shepherding hordes of grumpy brats around in the rain... (c.f. much of around here last week, ugh!)
that said, there are some instructors (Warren Smith, et al) who have carved very attractive looking niches out for themselves in very or ultra high end teaching to very motivated individuals (Inside Out I am looking at you too  .. he he he) - which has to be better than trying to motivate the unmotivated.
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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@under a new name raises another very good point. Ski instructing is a sales and marketing job too. If you want more than just a subsistence life, you'll need to be building your brand and your repeat clientele. Look at how much work @Steve Angus puts into his daily blogs on Snowheads and his Periscope videos. There's a lot more involved than just the skiing.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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Is Brexit not a possible damper on employment prospects in Europe, unless course the candidate is (or is eligible for being) a citizen of the EU 27 and takes a European training route?
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| achilles wrote: |
| Is Brexit not a possible damper on employment prospects in Europe, unless course the candidate is (or is eligible for being) a citizen of the EU 27 and takes a European training route? |
Potentially it is a an issue for those who wish to seek employment as an instructor and who are not already established in an EU27 country. And perhaps not just a damper, but completely extinguishing prospects. If the candidate is eligible for an EU27 passport then it's not an issue, and the training route shouldn't be an issue.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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The other standpoint would be that for the majority of UK Instructors it will make little difference as they are already blocked from practicing their profession in some EU territories.
I personally expect little will change.
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@AndAnotherThing.., well... kinda... 'blocked' from owning or running their own ski school. Nobody is blocked from practicing their actual profession.
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FAQ
