 Poster: A snowHead
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i have always been fascinated by the snow line in the alps, its amazing that if your on top of a mountain and look at the view the snow line is more or less in a straight line right across the mountains, if snow could talk it would probably say " no lower than this lads ". and ski resorts always start at the snow line, for instance if your in les arcs and you look across to la rosiere its all green until la rosiere where it magically turns white, and travelling to resorts going up lots of hairpin bends, theres no sign of snow until you turn the final corner and your hit by a winter wonderland. and austria, why are there ski resorts at 800 metres with tons of snow, while in france at 2000 metres there might not be as much......fascinating.
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Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
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For a given area the temperature gradient will tend to be the same as you move higher and lower so you'd expect the snow line to be at the same height more or less. For example, this morning there is snow up on the Cotswold edge near me (500 feet and more) but it's raining on the edge of my small town 200 feet lower. Austria is generally cooler than France in winter because it's further east i.e. further from the warming effect of the Atlantic which means the French snow line will typically be higher. I'm sure those with better knowledge of climatology will add to this.
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Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
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@billb, bet you've got snow now though  We're in Glouestershire at about 30m altitude and it's been snowing & sticking for a couple of hours. Mind you, all the coombes around this part of the world generate their own funny weather patterns.
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You need to Login to know who's really who.
You need to Login to know who's really who.
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This was one thing that I thought very cool when riding down to Bourg from Les Arcs (or taking the funi up) that within a few cm you’d go from snow to rain!
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Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
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The French call it "la limite pluie / neige" in their weather forecasts.
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You'll need to Register first of course.
You'll need to Register first of course.
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@compostcorner, it also happens that snow down in a valley can stick around when higher up all is green. Because of temperature inversion. Which can also lead to artificial snow being made and trucked up to higher altitude.
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@jd_evans, yes we have snow now! @pam w, indeed, temperature inversion is an interesting phenomenon.
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Years ago I used to live in the Lake District. My drive home from work took me up St John's in the Vale with a stunning view of Blencathra and Skiddaw in front of me. I used to love watching the snowline move up and down the mountain throughout the winter. Always a straight line across the massif.
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You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
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Austria is further away from the heat-traps of the Atlantic Gulf Stream, Med Sea, and North Africa, and closer to the cold-trap of Russia, and geographically located slightly further north, while the curvature of the Earth means Winter arrives and leaves slightly sooner in the east (Austria) than the west (France).
Austria has lower maritime influence and a higher degree of continentality.
Of course, the "glacier line" is much lower in France than Austria, due to France's cold-traps of rocky, steep and perma-sheltered northern faces (e.g. Chamonix).
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Also the air tends to be drier in continental Europe (because it is further from a maritime source). Drier air makes for a stronger lapse rate - the decrease in temperature with altitude. Lapse rates therefore tend to be higher further east into the Alps and also later in the season.
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snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
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All good info here. One or two comments raise questions for me:
@pam w,
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it also happens that snow down in a valley can stick around when higher up all is green. Because of temperature inversion. Which can also lead to artificial snow being made and trucked up to higher altitude.
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Is the inversion really the major cause? I would have assumed that the inversion might sometimes have an effect it was more likely that the valleys are colder because of the denser cold air settling in the valleys (which I suppose is a sort of inversion) and, more significantly, the fact that the valley floors will get far less solar warming due to the mountain shadows. Happy to be proved wrong.
@Whitegold,
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Austria is further away from the heat-traps of the Atlantic Gulf Stream, Med Sea, and North Africa, and closer to the cold-trap of Russia, and geographically located slightly further north, while the curvature of the Earth means Winter arrives and leaves slightly sooner in the east (Austria) than the west (France).
Austria has lower maritime influence and a higher degree of continentality.
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Why would Russia be a 'cold trap'. It's cold, but why a trap? Surely most of your first sentence is essentially saying that Austria has a 'higher degree of continentality' ?
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while the curvature of the Earth means Winter arrives and leaves slightly sooner in the east (Austria) than the west (France)
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I don't understand this. Are you saying that the Austrian snowline is lower because it is further North or because it is further East? (This is in the context of your comment about the curvature of the earth)
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And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
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Whitegold is of course completely wrong to say Winter arrives and leaves slightly sooner in the east due to the curvature of the earth. I mean, duh. Of course it doesn't.
It's because of the rotation of the earth, not the curvature.
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I would have assumed that the inversion might sometimes have an effect it was more likely that the valleys are colder because of the denser cold air settling in the valleys (which I suppose is a sort of inversion) and, more significantly, the fact that the valley floors will get far less solar warming due to the mountain shadows. Happy to be proved wrong.
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Yes - the fact that (in some weather conditions) cold air settles in the valleys is, as I understand it, the essence of "inversion". It's not necessary to invoke "solar warming". At a time of strong inversion (and there was a lot of it during the last two snow-scarce Christmas and New Year periods) a lower, south-facing, slope could have a healthy covering of artificial snow compared to a higher, north-facing slope - the temperature differences can be huge. Minus 10 in the valley compared to well above freezing up the hill - regardless of sunshine.
Just to complicate matters, you might encounter several inversions as you drive up from the valley. A fact often noted on, for example, Chamonix Meteo. Makes the mind boggle.
I'm just speaking from experience here - I don't really understand the ins and outs!! Or ups and down.....
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