Stateside Trip Planning

A snowHead

I'm after a bit of Snowheads advice on a trip we're planning for February next year. As there will be kids in tow (ages 7 and 10) who've not skied anywhere except Europe we're thinking of going long haul for the first time. Part of the trip would also be spending a couple of days in Los Angeles for the kids to go to Universal Studio and the like.

So currently trying to weigh up between flying in to LAX and then getting internal flights to either Reno for Tahoe skiing, making our way to Mammoth from LA (not sure if it would be cheaper though in theory nearer), flying to Denver for Colorado skiing at the likes of Snowmass or Winter Park, or even flying up to Vancouver and doing Whistler.

In two weeks away we want about 7 days on the snow with a few days either end in a city. Also want to keep costs reasonably down, so lift pass prices need to be taken in to account plus would ideally like morning lessons for the kids for 5 days or so. Also if we can get away without car hire at all that would be good though realise it's unlikely based on most resort and accommodation set up.

So, have we missed any glaring options or opportunities to combine the two? Resorts to consider? We need something which covers abilities from he kids to grown ups who've done full seasons away.

Finally, realise that Tahoe has had some awful seasons recently (and the last one being epic) so unless a particular resort is really unreliable for snow we'll take our chances I suspect.

A snowHead

My inclination would be - if you can - fly into Salt Lake or Jackson hole - might require car rental but probably more rewarding for the adults?

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Personally I think trying to do cities at both ends is making your holiday more complex and stressful. Plus I suspect kids don't really care about cities as such but rather fun things like zoos or kid focused activities.

If it's just theme parks you could go to 6 Flags Vallejo on the way to or from Tahoe from San Francisco then go to Virginia City for a day of cowboy/ frontier type stuff.

Your main challenge is finding affordable skiing as ticket prices are geared to extracting maximum price from short term visitors while season passes may be much better value e.g. Epic Tahoe Local Pass. Lessons are also not cheap though you may find bundle deals. Generally places which have more of a summer season e.g. South Lake Tahoe or Jackson town will have more and cheaper accommodation available in winter.

Reckon on a rental car. Don't necessarily worry about an SUV - a full size like a Fusion ( Mondeo) might be way cheaper and you can always buy chains if the rubber isn't good enough.

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I would use Park City / CAnyons as your benchmark for excellence. No need for a car as there is excellent ski bus service. Park City has still got a flavor of a mining town so a fair bit to do in the evening. Short 1 hour transfer from Salt lake City. The skiing is excellent and extensive which is not true for all US resorts. IMHO this is your money no object best choice.

IN Feb everywhere should have snow so see what you can save by going elsewhere and decide if you want to pinch those pennies. Maybe Powder Mountain.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

Mountain Collective passes would get you 7 days skiing out of SLC at Alta, Snowbird & Snowbasin provided they are still doing a bonus day. Either way it's cheaper than 7 days of tickets and SLC is a fairly large city for some other activities.
Your other option is waiting and chasing the snow wherever it's falling.

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Thanks for the advice everyone, I think you might be right about trying to squeeze in two city stop overs, I'm leaning towards persuading the others (two families in total) to just going with LA and Universal Studio for a couple of days and then skiing from there.

I had considered Salt Lake City, I love the skiing there but never made it to Park City so worth considering.

How easy are flights to Jackson Hole? And has it got enough terrain to go at for kids and intermediates? Will take a look at it too.

Any other suggestions welcome though, anything worth considering in PNW/Montana area?

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

Bonus day finished the other month on the Mountain Collective, but still gets you 6 days skiing - which coupled with a couple of discount tickets would see you through.

Jackson has enough terrain for the kids and intermediates, 50% of their terrain is aimed at intermediates, plus you could go to Targhee - fun place and very quiet.
Not flown into Jackson as prefer to drive up from SLC, can be quite expensive to fly into, but you don't need a car once you are there. Buses and shuttles everywhere make it easy.

There's Big Sky in Montana, but its very corporate and likes to take your money wink

But it is quiet and plenty of terrain to suit the kids and intermediates.
As mentioned above I'd only do one city break, either at the beginning or end.

After all it is free

@Bones, isn't Big Sky a pita to get to? Always was when I looked.

Tetons, imv, more interesting at least vs photos. Drive in from SLC mighty fine and there a great aerospace museum on the way.

under a new name, Yeah, drive wise we did it from Jackson took around 3.5 - 4 hrs IIRC at night with temps around -10 F - was fun. I'll let you know after next season as we're doing it again Toofy Grin

Flying - you can fly into Bozeman I think on an internal flight. At least you could also ski Bridger which is supposed to be fun.

The remoteness keeps the slopes/lifts extremely empty

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@bigtuboflard, what is it about skiing in western USA that attracted you to that option?

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I seem to recall that flying to Jackson requires an overnight to make the connection.

If you're going to California and don't know why other places are different, then I'd ski right there and all will be well. Smaller none-destination resorts probably won't meet your requirements as well.

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To combine with Disney and Universal Studio, the most obvious choice is Mammoth. Tahoe can be done as part of the trip without too much hassle.

You will need a car. But the drive itself is quite spectacular. Mammoth is pretty close to snow sure. Tahoe can wait till closer to time based on how the season is like.

Mountain Collective will be your best bet for reasonable lift pass. Unfortunately I think you may have missed the kids deal on it.

Jackson Hole is also a good option, mainly because there's a lot of non-skiing activities to do (snowmobiling into Yellowstone, wildlife watching etc) And the town of Jackson has quite a bit of character.

Skiing in Jackson is good for intermediate up to expert. Not so good for beginners.

I'd fly straight into Jackson to avoid the need for hired car, even with an overnight layover.

You know it makes sense.

Polluting Snow mobiles should be banned from Yellowstone Park Between 500-1000 of these machines ride throught the park daily in the Winter.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

@intermediate, as much as anything it was to combine with a trip to LA for the kids as well as get a different experience to skiing than that of February half term in Europe. My other half has only ever skied in Europe too whereas I've done USA and Canada a fair few times (though not in the last 7 years or so), so seeing how it's changed would be interesting for sure.

I'm hoping that relatively speaking, it's still a lot quieter than France at half term, there's better, bigger wider groomers to go at and a different way of doing apres ski (i.e. Not a lot from my experience).

A snowHead

@abc as much as I'm tempted by Jackson Hole, the cost of interior flights there (to Jackson at least) are prohibitive, so the only other option would be to fly to SLC and drive. If we're doing that we might as well drive from LA to Mammoth, which might be a better option anyway. I also think Mammoth will have more to offer the kids any my intermediate other half than Jackson too.

A snowHead

On another thread I suggested that someone fly out to San Franciso and spend 2-3 days there, then drive at a civilised time (e.g. 10am) to Heavenly Lake Tahoe. Then a day driving back to SFR, overnight near the airport, and home. Flying to Reno still leaves you with a fair distance to transfer to Lake Tahoe, which would probably be a hire car. So rather than two flights and a hire car, I'd prefer one flight (>SFR) and a hire car (>Heavenly). I think this would be the least stressful. I'm only suggesting this on the basis of having done SFR>Heavenly a couple of times on the back of business trips. There are lots of other options.

Trouble for me is that all these North American trips (I've also done Denver>Vail) were fine for me because I was already there on business, with my wife joining me from the UK a couple of times. Personally, the whole transatlantic flight time, jetlag, US Immigration, luggage reclaim, car hire transfer, car pickup thing is heavy going. Just as you're settling into your hotel/apartment in the Alps, your alter egos are still in the air, over the Atlantic approaching the East Coast with another 5-6 hours flying across the continent. However, I know plenty of people who say it's worth the extra hassle for the guaranteed Rocky Mountain snow. And you're doing the sensible few days locally on landing.

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@bigtuboflard, I would advise checking to see what days Universal and Disney are open during the winter, I think they reduce the days, if so it may change what you can do. There are also height restrictions on a lot of the rides, your youngest may not be able to go on all of them.

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@bigtuboflard, if keen on combining theme parks with skiing, then LA-SFR-Tahoe seems a good option. About a dozen ski areas to explore near the lake. Personally I agree with @LaForet, that it is a lot of hassle.

I'd be thinking I'd left better mountains behind in Europe and by-passed better theme parks in Florida.
Take your point about half term crowds in France but there are great ski areas in Europe that are not ridiculously busy in mid Feb.

BTW I'm not anti ski USA. I've been to many areas over there. Typically on 50/50 sightseeing/ski trips, avoiding skiing weekends, when resorts are busiest. Visiting the Grand Canyon, Yosemite and San Francisco were amongst spectacular highlights. None of the skiing particularly excited me but it was all OK. LA just felt unsafe to me so never felt relaxed there.

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

@bigtuboflard, if keen on combining theme parks with skiing, then LA-SFR-Tahoe seems a good option. About a dozen ski areas to explore near the lake. Personally I agree with @LaForet, that it is a lot of hassle.

I'd be thinking I'd left better mountains behind in Europe and by-passed better theme parks in Florida.
Take your point about half term crowds in France but there are great ski areas in Europe that are not ridiculously busy in mid Feb.

BTW I'm not anti ski USA. I've been to many areas over there. Typically on 50/50 sightseeing/ski trips, avoiding skiing weekends, when resorts are busiest. Visiting the Grand Canyon, Yosemite and San Francisco were amongst spectacular highlights. None of the skiing particularly excited me but it was all OK. LA just felt unsafe to me so never felt relaxed there.

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@intermediate, have you been to Mammoth?

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

@bigtuboflard, @intermediate raised a good point about the theme parks in Florida may be better than the ones in LA.

Doing the theme parks in Florid will free you up for skiing other part of US. Also breaks the 9-10 hr fly time into 2 legs of 6hr + 4-5hr each, the second leg depending on where you choose to ski.

(however, I don't know how easy it is to get to Orlando, which is the gateway airport to Florida Disney)

After all it is free

Thanks again all, some food for thought definitely, especially about opening times of Disney and Universal (thanks @Geoffnight).

I do think about what the equivalent budget would get us in Europe though, but I've got a US itch that needs a bit of a scratch I think.

@abc, yes, Mammoth, Heavenly, Squaw Valley, Northstar, Kirkwood, Park City, Durango, Steamboat, ...several other Colorado and several Vermont/Maine/New Hampshire. Mammoth about 17 years ago though, so maybe it has changed.
For me the positives were customer care and excellent instruction for children.

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People make too much of a big deal of jet lag - I get just as jet lagged ( waking up early cos of altitude) in Val Thorens as in Cali or Colorado. Also to my mind a travel day is a travel day so you don't actually lose anything flying west and because flights eastbound are generally in the evening you can often get a good half day on the last day before a leisurely drive or transfer to the airport.

Snow quality and lack of midweek crowds are the main bens over Europe plus if you want lots of offpiste skiing without worrying about avy risk the world is your lobster.

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Some people get bad jetlag, some don't. I mentioned it because it's a factor for some. On the Denver-Vail trip my wife was jetlagged for almost three days before she adjusted. You can't deny the additional travel time going to the US. Again, for some, not an issue, but I'd need to be happy that my children travelled well. When my family came out to SFR while I was working there the summer, they crashed-out for a couple of days before adjusting.

At this point, someone usually points out that Heavenly has had a couple of very bad (i.e. no snow) years recently. Also that a deep snowbase means heavy snowfalls, so you can get the opposite effect of it being too snowy to ski. Cue responses saying that the bad seasons were anomalous and nothing stops them skiing (except death in a snowstorm perhaps?) etc. Uncertainty over conditions isn't entirely eliminated and there's a possibility -as anywhere - of all that effort to travel only to find indifferent conditions. However, I think that the odds of this are lower than for the Alps. And your making it a combined US-holiday-with-skiing means that the skiing part isn't the only element.

When I've gone, I've had the usual 5 metres of snowbase rather than the usual Alpine 1-2 metres and the conditions have been great. I'd agree that levels of instruction are excellent, not just because of native English but also there seems to be much more diverse types of instruction on offer to suit individual abilities. On-piste eating although sometimes a bit soulless is very efficient and moderately priced. Conversely, hire and skipass charges are comparatively high. Accommodation costs vary, just like in Europe: we found that there seemed to be more reasonably-priced, three-star type hotel accommodation on offer that competed well with self-catering.

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@intermediate, while Tahoe is the "usual" destination, it's far from LA. Driving from San Francisco also requires hiring a 4x4.

Mammoth is a much easier drive from LA. It has a much more even snow record than Tahoe region. And if the season is in favor of Tahoe, it's an easy transfer from Mammoth.

For such a short trip (ski-wise), I would make Mammoth a first stop and Tahoe second.

@abc, yes I was vague on detail. I meant LA for the theme park they want to visit. Internal flights to SFR, then Lake Tahoe. I used an ordinary vehicle, with snow chains I didn't use, from SFR to Tahoe, in December. 4 W drive ideal I guess. Mammoth has some plus points. Nice choices for OP to make Little Angel

You know it makes sense.

Still pondering! But it'll go down to either LA and fly to San Fran or Reno and back or drive from LA to Mammoth. We might drop the San Fran leg off the end too at this rate as it doesn't add that much to do and adds quite a bit of cost too plus more complex travel arrangements.

There's also Presidents Day weekend to try and avoid too as will probably try and stay off the slopes that weekend and use it to travel instead.

But yes, nice choices to make! Thanks again all for advice so far.

Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:

@intermediate, according to the OP, the theme parks are required.

Internal flights are often expensive, and a bother. More over, the drive time from San Francisco to Tahoe is almost as long as the drive time from LA to Mammoth. So I don't see much point of taking that extra flight unless one wants to ski Tahoe specifically. Beautiful Tahoe is, I'm not convinced it's worth the hassle when Mammoth has as good, if not better skiing.

Further more, from Mammoth, South Lake Tahoe is barely 3 hr away. So if the weather is conducive, that can be added on at the end of the Mammoth stay. The road condition from LA to Mammoth and from Mammoth to Tahoe is much less susceptible to winter storm than I-80 from San Francisco to Tahoe.

Having been stuck on I-80 more times than I care to recall, I'd like to remind people the hazard of that drive. A lot of people like to visit San Francisco as part of their trip. That makes the drive on I-80 worth it. But it's not a good alternative to get from LA to Tahoe. In fact, an internal flight to Reno might be a far better alternative than SFO.

A snowHead

@bigtuboflard, week after President's weekend is also relatively busy. You're going to get hit with relatively crowded slopes and queues in the theme parks during that week.

A snowHead

@abc, yes I stated that OP wants to visit theme parks first, eg Universal, LA. OP also mentioned might do internal flights and preferring to do trip without car rental. Must admit I'm struggling to understand how all that can be done while keeping costs reasonable. Guess we all have different perception of reasonable. I hope it all works out and you make good points about practicalities of travel.

As for the ski areas. My understanding is that Heavenly itself is slightly bigger than Mammoth. It certainly has stunning scenery. Then Lake Tahoe has another 10 or so smaller ski areas nearby, which would add variety.
Personally I'd get bored after about 3 days skiing just Mammoth or Heavenly. Maybe just my low threshold of boredom!

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@abc, Heavenly and Squaw Valley more or less opposite ends of Lake Tahoe. According to Gmaps, 1h 7m journey time, 39 miles. Not too big a journey. Other resorts around lake closer.
Mammoth shown as just under 3 hrs from Heavenly and a little over 5 hrs from LA, driving.

I think a good skiing offer if Mammoth, Heavenly and a couple of other Tahoe areas visited in 10 days or so. Little Angel

Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.

@intermediate, the drive time you got from google is probably assuming summer road conditions. Google has yet to figure out how to account for winter road closures yet.

Last teme I tried ( Colorado), it's still sending me over a mountain pass that closes the ENTIRE winter!

But I think the OP is familiar with skiing in the states. I got the impression he's just bouncing some ideas around, rather than really needing such information.

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I've found that the prices so far for internal flights are actually pretty reasonable between LA, Reno and/or San Francisco. The problem is that then invariably it still means you need to hire a car to get where you want to go so in total time including getting to airports and security etc. then there may not be much in it. Flights to ski specific airports (Mammoth, Aspen and Jackson) are not entirely unexpectedly very pricey given they're no longer than flights to major hubs but appealing only to skiers.

I am pretty familiar @abc with stateside skiing, at least in BC, Utah and east coast but have never skied in California hence in part the wish to give it a go.

I'm quite happy to sit behind the wheel of a car for hours on end in winter assuming roads are open (did Kicking Horse to Vancouver in one go not so long ago) but with kids in the car it might be a different proposition.

As it stands I'm still erring towards Mammoth from LA at the moment and dropping the San Francisco leg entirely if nothing else to limit down time travelling in the two weeks we have available. To that end I've found a reasonable deal at the Village Lodge in Mammoth which is $404 per night for a double room but has lift passes included (which are about $80 each per day) so around $250 a night in reality. Has anyone got any experience of this place? Looks nice, right next to village gondola and ski out too.

Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...

We've been to Mammoth twice - once combined with Tahoe, once just to Mammoth.
First trip we stayed in the town - good as we walked to eat every night (the locals seemed to find this a bit weird). There are ski buses but we tended to drive to one of the free parking spots on the road up to the village - they are always at the base of one of the chairs.
Second trip we stayed at Mammoth Mountain inn - great for easy access to the mountain and the drive down to the village at night was exciting. There is a cosy bar next to the inn that sold great bar food with football on the tv. The hotel was a little rough around the edges - we found the circulation a little grotty as people kept boots in their rooms. I think at the time it was good value but the dollar to pound had changed a bit since then.
The lodge is further down the hill and a bit more chi-chi.
I'd recommend a sierra trip - neither year was a classic snow-wise but still loads of snow. Totally different to a week in Austria or France which makes it worth the trip. Combining with Tahoe was really good - only a couple of hours between them and if you buy the area pass, Tahoe gives a great experience of lots of different resorts. We flew to lax and drove - took 5 hours ish with a stop at the strangest service station possible. The drive from la through the desert and then climbing into the mountains was great. Make sure you take chains, we hit rain an hour from Mammoth - as we climbed it turned to very heavy snow and the police were advising chains even for 4x4s. We had 60cms of powder on our first morning though...

After all it is free

BigTub.............

Face the facts, it's ultimately ALL about the kids, period. That's what family is. You're making memories more than anything else and the kids eyes light up at the prospect of Disneyland, Universal Studios, going on a studio tour, seeing the Hollywood Sign, going to The Apple Pan (!!), seeing some other sights. While no one can predict what North American winter will be in 2018, inasmuch as I am in Colorado, I always hope the best for the West Coast which I love and am no stranger to. The central west tends to average better than the coast over the past thirty years but remember, California does not get its winter until late January forward with big storms coming in mid February on to April. So, in a few months if regions of the Rockies are doing well and the Sierras, Cascades and the spine up to BC is not as great, be somewhat patient before you consolidate your plans. You're already aware of El Presidentes Weekend of Feb. 19th.
If you go to LAX you'll be renting a car already, so, if skiing is on in California the drive up to Mammoth is a solid five - six hours up 395. It's a nice drive if you leave around 10:00 a.m. after the morning commute. By the way, do not speed, the CHP are v. good at their job and will amaze you with where they are. Another four hours north puts you in the Tahoe basin. You have a great deal to choose if the skiing is good in Cal. And Mammoth IS exceptional, beautiful, too. And as has already been said by one astute poster, in Cal, be prepared for the possibility of huge snow (storms) that begs for 4wd and chains that if required, you need, period. Domestic flying is, in a word, an ordeal. I fly a lot over the course of a year.........................

If you decide on any western state there is nothing for the kids other than skiing and the great outdoors. So............., put it to a vote at the dinner table.

Thanks @arcsinice, it is mostly for the benefit of the kids, you're right, but more generally about creating memories as you say.

I'm definitely going to try and get consensus between us and the other family to fly to LA and then drive from there instead of taking internal flights. Thanks too for the tip on CHP; never been one for blasting along in winter anyway so would rather enjoy the drive up. I'll be prepared for big storms though by hiring a 4WD as a minimum and try and rent chains to go with it as well.

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Just a quick update and thanks again for the advice received. We've ended up booking flights in to San Francisco and hired a 4WD car to drive up to Tahoe for a week skiing. We ended up getting Tahoe value season passes as it works out cheaper than walk up pass though means we can't ski an extra day on Presidents Weekend (probably not a bad thing).

Going to then drive back towards San Francisco and do what parts of the Big Sur that are open on the way to LA. Couple of nights there then flight home from there direct back to the UK. Can't wait! Just holding out for another good season for Tahoe area.

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