I know there are lot of Japan threads already but I think my question may not have been directly covered and/or be quite specific. And it's summer and the forum isn't so busy so indulge me in a bit of fantasy thinking
A concise summary of our current skiing: me, wife, children currently 12 & 10. Children have been skiing since 3/4. We ski all the mountain including off piste. We ski twice a year at Christmas and as soon as the schools break up end of March for the "Easter" break. We drive to France and self cater staying in an appartment (DIY). We ski as a foursome, we choose not to put the children in ski school.
I have a bit of a distant fascination of Japan skiing and as the children are getting to an age where they could handle the hassle and might appreciate something a bit different and some serious pow it got me thinking....
Would it possible to replicate one of our family trips to France with what to Japan replacing the driving with flights? More specific questions I am thinking:
Is Christmas and late season a bad idea - given the extra cost of flights and hassle. What are the snow conditions like at these times. Is it like the Alps, as in you take what you get and make sure there is a high altitude skiing available? TBH I don't want to go there just to piste cruise. I live with it in the Alps, especially when the children were younger but for a trip like this, I'd like the odds of at least some pow to be decent.
Can you rent apartments easy enough? Supermarkets easily accessible (feels like a dumb question!)?
Are costs of apartments, supermarkets and lift passes on a par with the Alps? So the only extra cost would be the flight minus the costs of driving to France? Would I have to pay to transport ski gear?
It would seem a bit of a waste to go all that way and not do a bit of sight seeing and culture absorption. Presumably it would be easy enough to tag on some time for that? What could I do with the ski gear during that time?
Any other thoughts/pointers for a family DIY, cheap (less the flights) trip?
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
Obviously A snowHead isn't a real person
What about North America for a change?
You get different skiing for sure. Inbound off-piste is taken for granted ("if you can see it, you can ski it"). Powder opportunity maybe similar if not in quality.
Not sure about the culture part. But you also avoid the language difficulty.
On the timing front, taken into account of snow record, Japan is more favorable for Christmas whilst North America late March.
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
Well, the person's real but it's just a made up name, see?
@abc, I have considered NA. I haven't ruled it out. There are just a few niggles, thoughts as to whether it's really worth it. I guess Japan is just tickling my fancy a bit more. I have to try and justify breaking the current mould. And whilst funds are available I'm not made of money
apts are easy enough and supermarkets plentiful and easy to navigate in English in Niseko... Defo need to take in some culture and travel a bit. There are no direct flights to Hokkaido as far as I know making the journey a long one from the UK..
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
Anyway, snowHeads is much more fun if you do.
I'd say go for it. We've been twice, both occasions to Hakuba Happo One as my stepson and then a friend were teaching there. Christmas is peak cos many Aussies skiers, amongst others, take their summer hols in Japan.
Japan is wonderful, quirky.
I can't speak for the better known (to westerners) resorts on Hokkaido, but Hakuba would be an excellent choice for your first trip.
Here's what you may need to know to help you:
1. Hakuba is a 4 hour drive from Haneda airport-the main airport in tokyo. You can book a shared taxi and they meet you at the airport.
2. The cost of skiing is actually cheaper than in Europe. We were last there in 2015 and the exchange rate isn't as good, but a day pass was around 4000 yen I think-about £28. There were various permutations of multiday passes, some included a lunch voucher, or an onsen.
3. Hakuba definitely has apartments to rent. There are some small supermarkets and you can get by trying to self cater, but eating out is relatively cheap.
4. People ski for the day, come in, have an onsen and tend to go out to eat around 6-6.30pm. Onsens are a big thing. You should and get accommodation with access to one.
5. At Hakuba we based ourselves at Happo One as it was where my stepson was based. He worked for an English speaking ski school. The resort is not exactly pretty, and the lifts are a little clunky, it is probably the best base for a first timer in that area. The valley has a number of linked resorts which are a short bus ride away and offer some fantastic slopes. Some accommodation feels a bit 1990s, but I know there are some nice new apartments that have been built recently. You may want to think about going the whole hog and trying Japanese style rooms-tatami mats on the floor etc.
6. There are restrictions on off piste in the main resorts in the Hakuba valley and you risk losing your lift pass if you are caught. However, Happo One has opened up a freeride zone and the snow on piste, given how much they get, means there are likely to be ample opportunities to ski "off piste" on piste, if you get my drift. They average 11m per year. There is NO snowmaking..they don't need it.
7. THE BEST THING...just up the road is Hakuba Cortina, linked over to Norikura where there are no restrictions on off piste at all. It's about 20mins in a taxi, or you take the bus and it takes about 40 mins. As you get closer the snow pack either side of the road gets higher and higher. Cortina averages 13m per year. Take the clunky old lift to the top and ski the trees, lap after lap. It is truly wonderful. A joyful experience not to be missed.
8. For most flights home, you tend to need to be in Tokyo the night before as the flights are in the morning, so at the very least take it in on your way back. To get into Tokyo central, take an hour's bus to Nagano and then the bullet train is just 90 mins right into the city. There are plenty of hotels close to the station so you can abandon your kit for a couple of days.
9. From Hakuba you can get a trip to the hot pools where the monkeys hang out (we haven't done that).
10.Not many Japanese people speak English, though Hakuba Happo has more than most given the Aussie contingent. It really doesn't matter. The people are friendly and you get by!
Oh yes..we used an agent the first time..Japan ski experience. The second time we booked it all ourselves. The Hakuba website has an English speaking section. We avoided self drive just because I read that most sat navs in Japanese cars are only in Japanese, and Tokyo is VAST, and I wouldn't want to try and find my way through it to get to the right motorway. Public transport is very good though.
Not to be a Kiljoy but you're looking at at least £2000 and quite possibly up to £3200 for flights for the four of you for starters.
If that's not a deal breaker then both the main island of Honshu and the northern island of Hokkaido offer a fantastic family holiday.
Both Honshu - Hakuba Valley, Myoko, Nozawa Onsen, Shiga Kogen - and Hokkaido - Niseko, Rusutsu, Kiroro, Furano, Tomamu - see the most snowfall in December and January. It wouldn't be surprising to see no clear, sunny days the whole time you're there.
Honshu sees less to no snowfall in March, but it's still pumping on Hokkaido with 2-3 snow events per week in a normal season.
Accommodation, food and lift pass prices are comparable if not cheaper than France however as I've recommended in other threads I wouldn't consider going to Japan for less than 10 days.
So whilst the per diem cost may well be less than France you'll have more of them.
If you're looking for exotic, good powder, culture and cheap then the eastern fringes of Europe may be the call.
My girlfriend and I did a 10-day trip to Gudauri Ski Resort, Georgia in January 2016 - 2 days travel, 8 days in resort - and can't recommend it highly enough.
Safe and family friendly.
It's not for everyone, but for those with a sense of adventure who aren't looking for hundreds of kms of piste skiing and a huge apres scene then it ticks just about all the boxes.
It's a high altitude resort with consistent snow cover and regular snowfall - ~ 10m per season. We had over 1m during our stay.
Wide variety of pisted terrain, which was deserted during our visit.
Unlimited off-piste terrain suitable for all ability levels.
Approx. 1200m vertical
Amazing scenery.
Wide variety of accommodation at all price points.
Plenty of restaurants and bars on mountain and for apres & dinner.
Great food.
Very welcoming people.
Unbelievabe value for money.
We spent £952.77 each all-in for 10-day holiday (2-days travel, 8-days skiing)
Add in a couple of days in Tbilisi and you'll get ancient and modern culture.
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
Then you can post your own questions or snow reports...
@Mike Pow, I did read your report at the time and it's a good shout as an alternative.
Something to ponder for sure.
After all it is free
After all it is free
Wondering if Christmas is too bleak there though and may need trees. Sounds like late season could be iffy.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
You'll get to see more forums and be part of the best ski club on the net.
@Layne - we have a similar situation to you and I have a similar fantasy... But a wife not too willing to travel, so I'm saving up the points for an upgrade hoping to swing it for 2019.
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Ski the Net with snowHeads
Layne wrote:
Wondering if Christmas is too bleak there though and may need trees. Sounds like late season could be iffy.
Further west, the Georgian resorts have tree lined runs.
Not been though.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
snowHeads are a friendly bunch.
I would recommend Nozawa for sure in the early season for a first trip. Really traditional town with loads of restaurants and character and good skiing for a week. Onsens all over the place and great tree skiing and touring options. Day trip to Nagano temples or Matsumoto castle or the monkeys is also good fun.
Has definitely got busier every year though! Would also recommend the bullet train rather than a car. It's an experience for sure and really easy and the shopping guide for useless gadgets on the train is amazing. Dog staircases and wee proof pants etc.
I love how they advertise in the magazines. Always someone using the gadget and someone else looking on with furious jealousy.
Have fun. J
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
And love to help out and answer questions and of course, read each other's snow reports.
Honestly... I don't think the flight and jet lag would be fun with a 10 year old. Other than the travel somewhere like Niseko would likely be absolutely ideal (can get by in English, easy to find western food if the kids needs a break from Japanese, etc). But tbh I'd probably wait 'til the youngest is at least 14, assuming you're travelling from the UK. If you can do 2-3 weeks maybe less of an issue though...
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
So if you're just off somewhere snowy come back and post a snow report of your own and we'll all love you very much
clarky999 wrote:
Honestly... I don't think the flight and jet lag would be fun with a 10 year old. Other than the travel somewhere like Niseko would likely be absolutely ideal (can get by in English, easy to find western food if the kids needs a break from Japanese, etc). But tbh I'd probably wait 'til the youngest is at least 14, assuming you're travelling from the UK. If you can do 2-3 weeks maybe less of an issue though...
I'm thinking it would have to be a 10-day to two weeker with sightseeing involved. But yes, this season might still be too soon.
You know it makes sense.
You know it makes sense.
Question: is taking your own kit an issue? How have people managed on trips like this?
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Otherwise you'll just go on seeing the one name:
Layne wrote:
Question: is taking your own kit an issue? How have people managed on trips like this?
Take my own kit every winter. Not a problem.
But with wife and two kids in tow, most probably a VERY different proposition
You can send your luggage on ahead of you from the airport to your ski accommodation and travel to resort with just carry on bags though.
Arrive Day 1 and send luggage on.
Luggage arrives Day 2, first thing Day 3 at the latest.
If you do the sightseeing and cultural thing at the start of your trip then you and the family can get over the journey and not have to cart all your gear around.
And yes 10-21 days would be my recommended timeframe.
Poster: A snowHead
Poster: A snowHead
Mike Pow wrote:
But with wife and two kids in tow, most probably a VERY different proposition
My 12yo boy would be fine. I kid you not while walking the Verdon gorge last week he put several big rocks in his knapsack because he deemed it too light after much of the water and food had been consumed
But yes there would be a bit to think about logistically.
FAQ
Poster: A snowHead
But a wife not too willing to travel, so I'm saving up the points for an upgrade hoping to swing it for 2019.
